How many Kenpo 10th degrees?

[ikenpo]

Originally posted by cdhall
For what it is worth, at Mr. Duffy's Oct 2002 camp Mr. Trejo talked about meeting Mr. Pick and sparring Mr. Pick for the first time when Mr. Trejo was new to the Pasadena studio and how their relationship developed after that.

If I recall correctly, Mr. Trejo was an Orange Belt at the time and Mr. Pick was a Black Belt. I don't think Mr. Trejo mentioned the year.

And Mr. Tatum was a green as I recall (when he told us that story)...

 

[Self_Destruct]

It's about time the truth came out.

 

[Kroy]

What ranks would these guys have if Mr. Parker was still alive? I bet that list would be none existant.:asian:

 

[jdmills]

I think, please let me know if I am correct, that there were a handful (3-5) 8ths when Mr. Parker died. Is that correct?

I personally can't imagine Mr. Parker promoting anyone to 10th, so if you only feel that a person can hold a rank that was awarded by Mr. Parker, then I don't think anyone would be above 9th.

Jim

 

[cdhall]

Originally posted by jdmills
I think, please let me know if I am correct, that there were a handful (3-5) 8ths when Mr. Parker died. Is that correct?

I personally can't imagine Mr. Parker promoting anyone to 10th, so if you only feel that a person can hold a rank that was awarded by Mr. Parker, then I don't think anyone would be above 9th.

Jim

There were Twelve 7ths at the time of Mr. Parker's Death.
According to the AKSC site which did some checking into this once upon a time
http://www.aksc.org/html/parker_blackbelts.shtml

He also did not promote anyone within his own system beyond 7th as far as I know.
:asian:

 

[Kroy]

Out of all of these 10th degrees, who would you consider to be the true hier to AK. Try to be non bias in your answer.

 

[jazkiljok]

Originally posted by Kroy
Out of all of these 10th degrees, who would you consider to be the true hier to AK. Try to be non bias in your answer.

well, that's easy- an heir to grandmastership by tradition would be a family member. that would make Ed Parker Jr. the true heir.

now if you mean who's got dibs on being the AK grandpoopah because of seniority, time with Mr. Parker, talent, understanding and evolution of the system, etc-- you can feel free to pick any of the list who fits your definition and requirements.

but considering that AK isn't a traditional system- there isn't a need for heir's etc-- it is in some way even detrimental to the growth and development of Kenpo-- it is obvious now by many accounts by Seniors that Ed Parker did control the flow of knowledge-- all these guys out there now pursuing AK and developing their own drills, teks, while refining and adding to principles and concepts would probably have been restrained from doing so without having to go outside of AK to do it (like Dave German did for example).


peace

 

[Kroy]

Let me put it this way. Who is the most sought after Kenpo Master?:asian:

 

[Michael Billings]

I know that 7th was the highest promoted rank in 1990. How about in the Tracy lineage, or elsewhere? Just curious as to how high they had gone as of 1990.

I am also curious about the systems that were clearly a derivative of Ed Parker himself, regardless of whether it splintered during the Chinese Kenpo phase, of after, when EPAK became truly an American Martial Art.

Leilani Parker saw the IKKA as being a family legacy. It was her and the children's source of income and support. She decided on promotions. She had Regional Directors, not being one, I cannot speak to whether she followed their advice or not. I assume this was a piece of the fragmentation of Kenpo in general.

Edmund was not a Black Belt at the time of his Dad's death. He has spoken about this on many occasions. He pursued and attained the rank through Ron Chapel (I believe), but trained with a plethora of the Who's Who of Kenpo prior to Black.

It is confusing as to whom, and why certain individuals were promoted and others were not following Mr. Parker's death. Suffice it to say; in a community already rent by grief and some dissention, those who dissented did not get promoted.

I am not being sarcastic or facetious when I say that this causes me and others, sadness and emphasizes the loss of SGM Parker all the more.

Oss,
-Michael

 

[cdhall]

Mr. Billings,

Did you want me to comment on some or all of your question?
I don't know too much more than I posted.
:uhoh:

 

[Michael Billings]

I wondered if you had any idea specifically about the number of Kenpoist who had an 8th or higher as of Mr. Parker's death. I know your post was correct as far as IKKA Black Belts: i.e.

Dave Hebler
Steve LaBounty
Tom Kelly
Frank Trejo
Bob White
Larry Tatum
Chuck Sullivan
John Conway (Deceased )
Richard Planas
Joe Polanzo
Ron Chap'el
Arturo Petit [deceased]

But I was curious as to people like the Tracy's, or other lineages that started with Mr. Parker?

-Michael

 

[cdhall]

Originally posted by Michael Billings
I wondered if you had any idea specifically about the number of Kenpoist who had an 8th or higher as of Mr. Parker's death...But I was curious as to people like the Tracy's, or other lineages that started with Mr. Parker?

-Michael

No sir. Only Nick Cerio. I don't know anyone else. I think Mr. Idol said something about people who were recognized by Mr. Parker. He might have some type of list.

Sorry for the confusion.


P.S. I just wrote this and got "unlogged" and lost it. I think I may have changed a browser setting recently, but my whole Operating System freaked out yesterday so the events may well be related.

 

[Wes Idol]

If that is not your last name, my apology...this is my effort to greet you well.

Cerio joined the IKKA already claiming a very high rank. He was allowed in the Association with his rank, but was not "promoted" by Parker to 9th. Elvis was given an 8th degree by Parker (I think an honorary, but am not sure). Elvis did a great deal to put Kenpo on the map, publicity-wise. My original instructor actually did mat time with E and said "he was fast."

Regarding lists of 7th degrees promoted by Parker (and there are many lists out there)...I believe some were promoted by Parker and some were not. To add more confusion to this end of organization and centralized knowlegde, I believe there are even some that were promoted to 7th that have not shared it with anyone, so they are not on any list.

Kenpo is not my business, it is one of my passions and tools for living. I gain no benefit is posting what I have, I simply think the truth matters.

Respectfully,

WI, HI
UKS

 

[cdhall]

Mr. Idol,

Thank you for your courtesy. I am Doug Hall so except for the fact that you outrank me, Mr. Hall is accurate. You can call me Doug if you like.

However, the only other info on Mr. Cerio that I have is that he has the only IKKA rank certificate with an expiration date on it.

Mr. Hebler has also said in the past that neither his nor Elvis' rank certificates said "Honorary" on them or had any such indication that they were not real.

My reading has led me to believe that Mr. Parker may well have considered some certificates as "recognition/acceptance of some other rank" and some certificates as "promotions within his system" but that he did not deliniate these at all.

I may PM you for more info but any other info you have on this phenomenon is appreciated. Thanks again.

P.S. If you have any tips on how to study Kenpo in Hawaii and make a decent living, please feel free to share them with me as well. I have a friend out there who has invited me to stay with them if I can make it out there. I'll be sure to look you up. Does your studio have a website? I understand you may not have a studio of your own, but I assume that you study with someone out there somewhere. I don't know how many EPAK schools are in Hawaii. I know Mr. Sepulveda used to own one or the only one at that time. Thanks again.
:asian:

P.P.S. I also know what you mean about a list of "7ths" even Mr. LaBounty and the rest of the AKSC did not know who all the 7ths were back in 1994. So I fully understand that this was not any type of "brotherhood" with a mailing list or a secret handshake or anything of that nature. I thought it was odd, but I don't know much about what Mr. Parker did and said and how he ran his operation. But I like to hear about it and there is a lot of good EPAK/IKKA info available to us here on MartialTalk. We are lucky here to have some participants that spent a lot of time with Mr. Parker. Thanks again.

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by Wes Idol
Cerio joined the IKKA already claiming a very high rank. He was allowed in the Association with his rank, but was not "promoted" by Parker to 9th.

That is correct, he was granted a cross over ranking assuming that he would be a productive member but that ended when he proved otherwise.

Originally posted by Wes Idol
Regarding lists of 7th degrees promoted by Parker (and there are many lists out there)...I believe some were promoted by Parker and some were not. To add more confusion to this end of organization and centralized knowlegde, I believe there are even some that were promoted to 7th that have not shared it with anyone, so they are not on any list.

But Mike Pick was not one of those!

Originally posted by Wes Idol
Kenpo is not my business, it is one of my passions and tools for living. I gain no benefit is posting what I have, I simply think the truth matters.

I do as well, but some have chosen to try to force themselves on others and demand by proclamation, rank, attention and acceptance.

:asian:

 

[Wes Idol]

Doug, my name is Wes and you can PM me anytime. I live and train in Los Angeles under Bryan Hawkins. Our website is http://www.uks-kenpo.com

Anytime you are in town, let me know. I also travel to train with Mike Pick. It is accurate to say Pick is my source of Kenpo Knife exposure.


DC, I never brought up Pick's name, but since you have I invite you to research that statement a little. Sepulveda has told Marcus Buonfiglio (Marcus was an old time black belt of John S. before he started with Pick) that Pick was to be promoted to 8th by Parker in January of 1991. Pick has shared with me that Parker promoted him to 7th before his death, but since rank has never been a big deal, it has never been an issue for Pick to bring up to anyone.

For me personally, Pick has always been truthful with me. If the time comes where his statements are proven false, I will be the first to acknowledge it...........as I have with others.........and you know some of the others I'm talking about.

Your friend,
WI

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by Wes Idol
DC, I never brought up Pick's name, but since you have I invite you to research that statement a little.
WI

Thanks for the advice....... I did! This topic has came up before on another Forum and was put to rest, but with a couple of other names.

After talking to Mr. Sepulveda and Dian Tanaka (who was the one on the prior forum whose name was also mentioned), neither know anything what so ever of what you say you were told by M Buonfiglio or about what you are talking about!!!!!!! These people that you mentioned (I didn't) say that there was no such discussion! This is a rumor at best.

Originally posted by Wes Idol
Pick has shared with me that Parker promoted him to 7th before his death, but since rank has never been a big deal, it has never been an issue for Pick to bring up to anyone.
WI

Uh Huh.

Originally posted by Wes Idol
For me personally, Pick has always been truthful with me.
WI

Uh Huh.

:asian:

 

[Wes Idol]

No need to yell, DC. If you feel content with calling Marcus Buonfiglio a liar, so be it. If you feel comfortable with calling Mike Picka liar, so be it. Buonfiglio isn't the only person who was at the studio the day Sepulveda was talking about the up coming Pick promotion.

WI

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by Wes Idol
No need to yell, DC.
WI

Who is yelling??????? Not me! (where do you get your material) lol

Originally posted by Wes Idol
If you feel content with calling Marcus Buonfiglio a liar, so be it.
WI

I didn't call anyone a liar. I just did as you asked and called the people involved and asked about the comments that he made. They disagreed.... maybe he misunderstood what he heard?

I should warn you ....... DON'T try to put words in my mouth for me, you need to research your facts better.

Originally posted by Wes Idol
If you feel comfortable with calling Mike Picka liar, so be it.
WI

Once again, you are incorrect......... show me where I said that! Are you trying to start something with me....... LOL well, think again, go ask your instructor about you are doing and saying. BTW have you seen a certificate for his 7th & what is the number on it? If that is a fact, then I need to add him to the true "known" list of actual Ed Parker promoted 7ths.

Originally posted by Wes Idol
Buonfiglio isn't the only person who was at the studio the day Sepulveda was talking about the up coming Pick promotion.
WI

Ok, so what? Have you talked to Bob Liles?

:asian:

 

[Wes Idol]

You quote me concerning what Pick has told me and how I feel he's never lied to me...and after both quotes you put "uh huh" which was all prefaced with you claiming my story invalid with many "!!!!!!'s."

If your going publically post such statements, at least stand behind your words. And regarding Bryan Hawkins and my sources...he knows me very well and my sources are fine.

WI