How many Kenpo 10th degrees?

[Sigung86]

Originally posted by kenpo_cory
I have to agree here. Nobody ever brings up these facts, just complains about others rank. So, anyone care to share where Mr. Parker recieved his promotions past 1st balack?

Cory, if you are directing that at me ... I'm not talking about SGM Parker or where his rank may or may not have come from. SGM Parker was a one in a million (plus or minus). Back in those halcyon days, you could do just about anything you wanted to that you were bad enough to get away with.

What I am referring to is the way that there are so many tenths, and I'm not seeing a lot of innovation and upgrade. Like I said, the 10th degree seems to have taken on the meaning of a family head and all the "respect and power" that goes with it. It is less a martial rank and more one of politics and money now. And, it almost seems like folks are selling their souls to sew, staple, or iron on the double red. The highest rank in the system is supposed to be for someone special... Someone who is "The Leader". NO offense intended to any of the current crop of 10th degrees, but with all the internicine warfare, politics, one-upmanship, and what-have-you, I haven't seent that person yet.

If I'm raining on your favorite 10th, then I apologize for your hurt feelings, but that person just isn't out there yet... And, unfortunately, may never be for American Kenpo.

To be the only tenth degree when the system is up and coming, is one thing. Twenty or thirty years after the fact, and ten years or less after the passing of the SGM, and you suddenly get an enlightenment from Mount Olympus, just doesn't get it. Having all your students put a 10th on you just doesn't get it. Having someone kick you in for 10th ... Just doesn't get it. The curent trend is building a Kenpo LaLa Land ... But .... what the Hell do I know?

Dan Farmer

 

[kenpo_cory]

Originally posted by Sigung86
Cory, if you are directing that at me ...

If I'm raining on your favorite 10th, then I apologize for your hurt feelings,
Dan Farmer

Nope, not directed at you. Thanks for the apology but no hurt feelings Mr. Farmer, just looking for answers and still haven't found em.

 

[Sigung86]

Originally posted by kenpo_cory
Nope, not directed at you. Thanks for the apology but no hurt feelings Mr. Farmer, just looking for answers and still haven't found em.

Thanks Cory ... Me neither. :lol:

Dan

 

[Disco]

Please forgive my ignorance, but are all these 10th Dans under the same style or are there that many variations of Kenpo/Kempo?

 

[jazkiljok]

Originally posted by kenpo_cory
Nope, not directed at you. Thanks for the apology but no hurt feelings Mr. Farmer, just looking for answers and still haven't found em.

Ed Parker received rank up to 5th by William Chow (mostly leaps 1,3,5)-- he then self promoted to 7th. Sijo Emperado promoted him to 8th and from there on it was again Ed Parker.

William Chow did attempt to promote him to 10th but Ed Parker declined by reasoning that as it was his own self created system that no one but himself was qualified to ascertain his status in that system.

Ed Parker never wore stripes till 7th.

could be wrong-- perhaps Doc or Goldendragon could verify or correct?

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by Disco
Please forgive my ignorance, but are all these 10th Dans under the same style or are there that many variations of Kenpo/Kempo?

It is quite confusing isn't it. LOL

No, these men all studied under Ed Parker at one time or other, but when he died, they all took their own agendas and started their own groups (don't get me wrong, many are outstanding and unique Kenpoists but.........). Rather than look to seniors that have gone before them or band together in a group to form a unified platform, then choose a leader, they each decided to either promote themselves, had or accepted some rank from another kenpo organization (that was formed the same way), their students, some other group, notable instructor, or mail order outfit to seemingly validate what they wanted to wear.

The 2 Bar syndrome is alive and well all over the world now. If you aren't a 10th in Kenpo today, you're a nobody.............:rofl:

But that's just my opinion........ I might be wrong....

:asian:

 

[Klondike93]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
The 2 Bar syndrome is alive and well all over the world now. If you aren't a 10th in Kenpo today, you're a nobody.............:rofl:

But that's just my opinion........ I might be wrong....

It might just be me, but I don't think your wrong on this one


:asian:

Klondike (aka Chuck)

 

[Hollywood1340]

If you aren't a 10th in Kenpo today, you're a nobody............

I know a few "Undergrands" that get around pretty well, and some have even started their own groups. And a few of these answer their own mail, and respond to requests within reason, then pay first class postage. A rare breed. Though some may think them a few techniques short of a curriculum, we love em
Heh, I coined a new word. Undergrand-An EPAK studnet who is below grandmaster, but above first dan. (Note: Not to be confused with how much money some fools pay for first dan, that would be an Undergranddan, see also fraud)

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by Kenpo Yahoo
Who promoted Ed Parker Sr. to 10th degree?

Go check this out........
http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?id=117876;article=70

Originally posted by Kenpo Yahoo
Was it not a form of self promotion? Where did the ranking system come from? Somebody at some point self promoted themselves otherwise their would be no rank, so it's somewhat silly to argue over.

Yes, but with a long list of accomplishments not just regurgitations or rearrangements.

Originally the Japanese (you all know that), but then the different colors evolved as the system took on it's own uniqueness.

Yes, the rank and file had to start way back with someone........ just like in the military.

Originally posted by Kenpo Yahoo
-Wasn't Mr. P a creator and an innovator in the art of kenpo?
-Didn't he introduce new ways of thinking and doing things to many martial artists?
-Didn't he continually redefine himself and his art?
-Didn't he continually change and improve the way he performed his art?

Yes, again .... everyone knows the story. Ed Parker was given the "Keys" to the system but then he went above and beyond like any "Founder", creator, or innovator and forged new steel!! Who came up with the:
* Universal Pattern and all it's uses
* Web of Knowledge and all it's components
* Gathered all the Principles and added NUMEROUS
new ones!
* Spawned new horizons like Forward and Reverse
Motion
* Scientifically organized the "Analytical Study
of Motion"
* Who applied "LOGIC" to the Martial Arts and
forged a pragmatic approach vs. traditional!
on and on and on.............

Originally posted by Kenpo Yahoo
How many 10ths out there can honestly answer yes about themselves to those questions?

NONE ~~ all of us are trying to continue the Art as it was shared with each of us in our own way. Some do it more humbly....... others Bolder..... yet others with greed! Bottom Line is.... that we all are just re inventing the wheel in most cases.
I have seen nothing NEW from anyone. I have seen a lot of interesting teaching methods, drills, explanations and developments to add to the various different areas of the Art, but nothing "new".

Originally posted by Kenpo Yahoo
How can anyone who is still doing kenpo the same way they were doing it at the time of Mr. Parkers death say yes to any of those questions?

They can't!

But then again, that's just my opinion..... I might be wrong.

:asian:

 

[jeffkyle]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7


The 2 Bar syndrome is alive and well all over the world now. If you aren't a 10th in Kenpo today, you're a nobody.............:rofl:

But that's just my opinion........ I might be wrong....

:asian:

Well, at least the nobodys out number the somebodys. LOL! :rofl:

 

[GouRonin]

You know, good stuff is good stuff no matter where you learn it.

A 10th degree isn't gonna be with me when I need to use what I know any more than a 3rd degree.

Heck, truth be told I still use some of the principles that Dennis shared with me in a conversation when I'm grappling.

Of course I would never tell him that because... oh... wait... d@mn...

 

[jazkiljok]

Originally posted by Sigung86


Have to say, and probably will get in trouble here for the observation, that when Frank Trejo let Mike Pick "kick him in" for his tenth, it was a ceremonial kick and custom that just as ceremonially, yet somewhat more realistically placed Frank Trejo directly under the political sphere and control of Mike Pick, who, as I understand from his old website, one day realized he should be a tenth degree, and so, put it on.

what's with all these veiled criticisms and concealed messages buried in diplomatic mumbo jumbo- why don't you just tell us what you really think!...:rofl:

 

[Kenpo Yahoo]

I'm not sure why, but I was under the impression that Mike Pick was one of Mr. Parkers highest ranking students at the time of his death. Yet, I read somewhere else that he was kicked out when he was a fourth and decided to make the jump himself.

Can anybody clarify this?

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by Kenpo Yahoo
I'm not sure why, but I was under the impression that Mike Pick was one of Mr. Parkers highest ranking students at the time of his death. Yet, I read somewhere else that he was kicked out when he was a fourth and decided to make the jump himself.

I guess it depends on the source of your information. He certainly has been around for quite a while. Many who were there when he was remember the correct story such as Huk Planas, Tom Kelly, Steve LaBounty, etc. He WAS a long time student. At the time of Ed Parkers death however, he (as far as belt rank goes) was a 4th (listed on the last IKKA newsletter) or possibly a 5th (possibly a mistake or an on the spot promotion - which Mr. Parker had been known to do) as once introduced by Mr. Parker at a seminar with Skip Hancock present.

He never liked to wear rank, always citing the Ed Parker story of Black is Black, yet when Mr. Parker died, after a short bit of time a letter was sent out with his rank proclamation.

Now he heads his own organization.

:asian:

 

[Elfan]

At that time 4th was the last belt containing curriculum, correct?

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by Elfan
At that time 4th was the last belt containing curriculum, correct?

3rd

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by jazkiljok
Ed Parker received rank up to 5th by William Chow (mostly leaps 1,3,5)-- he then self promoted to 7th. Sijo Emperado promoted him to 8th and from there on it was again Ed Parker.

William Chow did attempt to promote him to 10th but Ed Parker declined by reasoning that as it was his own self created system that no one but himself was qualified to ascertain his status in that system.

Ed Parker never wore stripes till 7th.

could be wrong-- perhaps Doc or Goldendragon could verify or correct?

Right on the money.

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by Kenpo Yahoo
I'm not sure why, but I was under the impression that Mike Pick was one of Mr. Parkers highest ranking students at the time of his death. Yet, I read somewhere else that he was kicked out when he was a fourth and decided to make the jump himself.

Can anybody clarify this?

correct

 

[jdmills]

I studied under Joe Palanzo back in 1987. He was a 7th at the time.

Jim

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by jdmills
I studied under Joe Palanzo back in 1987. He was a 7th at the time.

Jim