How long can you hold a horse stance?

[Kung Fu Wang]

The funny thing is, if you

- use hip throw to throw your opponent 10,000 times, you will be good at horse stance.
- stay in horse stance for 100 hours, you may not be good at hip throw.

What's the difference here? Do you like to train your MA skill through application? Or do you like to train your MA skill through basic? Anybody like to share your opinion on this?

 

[Flying Crane]

Standing around with your knees bent is both boring and pointless it’s nonsense like that why less and less people are bothering with traditional styles yes it’s for strengthening legs but there are way effective and more interesting ways to do that plus the fact it has absolutely no purpose for martial art technique and any kind of fighting makes it even more pointless

Then you certainly should not do it. I don’t see a problem with that solution.

 

[Hot Lunch]

The funny thing is, if you

- use hip throw to throw your opponent 10,000 times, you will be good at horse stance.
- stay in horse stance for 100 hours, you may not be good at hip throw.

What's the difference here? Do you like to train your MA skill through application? Or do you like to train your MA skill through basic? Anybody like to share your opinion on this?

I've seen a lot of criticism of hojo undo; particularly the fact that physical conditioning through iron getas, gripping jars, etc were good for the time and place (i.e., pre-19th century Okinawa); but the benefits pale in comparison to modern weightlifting equipment.

So in the absence of barbells and plates to do squats and deadlifts, training to be able to endure the horse stance for lengthy periods was all they had. But with the availability of modern weightlifting equipment, you're much better off going that route.

 

[windwalker099]

Some things you can do in a horse stance using bricks to train with
Shows some application work using the power built from the stance and brick work.
CC for english subtitles

 

[windwalker099]

a long time ago, training Tibetan white crane...
We would stretch and run before any formal training..
After the run, we used to sit in a "horse" for 20 min,,,doing conditioning exercises from the horse.
The instructors would use incense , or a small cooking timer to start the time,
At the end of the time they would come in and test the horse and body conditioning by striking and kicking us...

Then class would begin

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

But with the availability of modern weightlifting equipment, you're much better off going that route.

I'm a member of 24 Fitness hours gym. In that modern gym, I cannot find any moder equipment that can help me to develop

- 2 arms twisting.
- leg twist.
- ...

Ancient 2 arms twisting training tool.





Ancient leg twisting training tool.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The instructors would use incense , or a small cooking timer to start the time,
At the end of the time they would come in and test the horse and body conditioning by striking and kicking us...

In my system, the teacher would ask students to do 200 hip throw solo drills. He then came back to check on the track that students made on the dirt ground. The deeper the track, the harder that student worked.

 

[_Simon_]

Alright, we've having a comp. Everyone start holdin' horse stance... NOW. Start.

 

[frank raud]

Judo

- hip throw,
- shoulder throw,
- embracing throw,
- firemen's carry,
- ...

all use horse stance.

The lower that you can drop into horse stance, the easier that you can throw your opponent.

View attachment 31491
View attachment 31493

If you are considering a stance where your feet are inside your opponents legs to be a horse stance, you have a very broad definition of a horse stance. The only example you pointed out where an actual horse stance is used is the fireman's carry, which hasn't been legal in judo competition for almost 15 years, so is rarely taught.
Again, in a judo class, I have never done horse stance training, we do body weight squats to strengthen the legs, but I have never dropped into kiba dachi and tested how long I could hold it.

 

[Hot Lunch]

I'm a member of 24 Fitness hours gym. In that modern gym, I cannot find any moder equipment that can help me to develop

- 2 arms twisting.

You don't have to specifically do that to work your arms and obliques.

- leg twist.
- ...

The twisting motion appears to be for setting your foot on the shaft so that it can be lifted forward with your leg. And that's what the leg extension machine would be for.

 

[marvin8]

I've seen a lot of criticism of hojo undo; particularly the fact that physical conditioning through iron getas, gripping jars, etc were good for the time and place (i.e., pre-19th century Okinawa); but the benefits pale in comparison to modern weightlifting equipment.

So in the absence of barbells and plates to do squats and deadlifts, training to be able to endure the horse stance for lengthy periods was all they had. But with the availability of modern weightlifting equipment, you're much better off going that route.

Yes. There are proven, common training methods among the highest level fighters/grapplers.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Standing around with your knees bent is both boring and pointless it’s nonsense like that why less and less people are bothering with traditional styles yes it’s for strengthening legs but there are way effective and more interesting ways to do that plus the fact it has absolutely no purpose for martial art technique and any kind of fighting makes it even more pointless

You clearly don’t know what you are talking about. It’s not just leg strengthening. But hey, you do you. I don’t care to try convincing you.

 

[Stuarto]

You clearly don’t know what you are talking about. It’s not just leg strengthening. But hey, you do you. I don’t care to try convincing you.

I did 5 minutes horse stance today followed by 80 punching sets and then katas. Felt good!

 

[windwalker099]

Yes. There are proven, common training methods among the highest level fighters/grapplers.

That may be....
There are also those in the highest levels of their craft who still use what may be called traditional methods for whatever reason..

ClearPower-BySagawaYukiyoshi

I have 24 regimens to my training that I do everyday. On top of this I swing a Hexagonal Pole (A heavy pole for swinging) about 30,000 times a year. I have done this everyday without fail for the past 30, 40 years. Doing this training over a long period of time won’t gain anything substantial over a short period of time. I am talking from my own experience. I did not learn this from Takeda Soukaku and I doubt there is another Dojo that will teach you this.

I didn’t teach this myself until a little while ago. I waited for my students to discover this for themselves. “Kitaeru”or“train”means that you must train in a manner that allows you to affect the opponent with minimal effort.

If you used100% of your ability (zenryoku) then it means you haven’t really trained.

The body must be trained until it is a veritable fortress, then should you body-check(tai atari) another person bigger than yourself, they will be sent flying.


However, if you train too much before you grasp the concept of Aiki, then this is no good.

"Kung Fu Wang " express's some of the same concepts although, don't know if he considers himself as one who is "traditional".


How would one evaluate either method ?
The evaluation used competition ?

While, a good objective way to evaluate things.
Those in the highest levels of what are considered traditional methods often don't compete in public events..
A problem for those looking to objectively measure effectiveness of training methods..

 

[windwalker099]

There is a practice called "少林气功内劲一指禅教程 "SHAOLIN QIGONG NEIJIN YIZHICHAN"
one finger qi gong

Practiced long ago...

The teacher wouldn't even start to train you, unless you could sit for at least 30min
in a "ma bu" horse stance.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Alright, we've having a comp. Everyone start holdin' horse stance... NOW. Start.

I'm still holding it. Did I win?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If you are considering a stance where your feet are inside your opponents legs to be a horse stance, you have a very broad definition of a horse stance.

The horse stance used in the throwing art (shoulder width) is narrower than the horse stance used in the striking art (shoulder width + 2 fists width).

 

[frank raud]

The horse stance used in the throwing art (shoulder width) is narrower than the horse stance used in the striking art (shoulder width + 2 fists width).

In Chinese arts, do you refer to the narrower stance as a horse stance? In over 3 decades of Japanese martial arts training, I have only heard of Kiba dachi referring to the wide stance. To my knowledge, the terminology dies not exist for the narrow stance.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

In Chinese arts, do you refer to the narrower stance as a horse stance? In over 3 decades of Japanese martial arts training, I have only heard of Kiba dachi referring to the wide stance. To my knowledge, the terminology dies not exist for the narrow stance.

In Chinese wrestling, the wide horse stance has never been taught. Evey time a student stays in a wide horse stance, the teacher always says, "Spring his leg apart (from inside)". So wide horse stance is a NO NO in the throwing art.

If your opponent wants to stay in a wide horse stance, you can help his wide stance to be wider than he wants - spring his legs apart.

 

[frank raud]

In Chinese wrestling, the wide horse stance has never been taught. Evey time a student stays in a wide horse stance, the teacher always says, "Spring his leg apart (from inside)". So wide horse stance is a NO NO in the throwing art.

If your opponent wants to stay in a wide horse stance, you can help his wide stance to be wider than he wants - spring his legs apart.

View attachment 31501

So, as the name implies the position you would be in if you were straddling a horse, how scrawny are Chinese horses that basically standing at attention is considered a horse stance?