How I train my horse stance

[JowGaWolf]

I'm not saying its not usefull, I'm more railing about the folks who use duration as some sort of test of fitness or manliness'

id like to see your vids if you can link them

IMPORTANT! IMPORTANT! IMPORTANT! This video is not a style vs style video or a "who fights better video" This video is of a bunch of guys who got together to spar to learn. This video is not a TRUE TEST of a complete fighting skill set that they may or may not possess. What this video does show are students working on various techniques and strategies found within their system and or within their own assumptions of what they think they can do as an attack or defense, that may or may not be in line with the system that they train. I respect everyone in the video and I think highly of their efforts to train and learn. You'll hear people enjoy themselves, laugh, and encourage others. Please do not take these videos out of context.

Now on the discussion of the horse stance. In the video you will see me (in the red shirt, red head gear) use various stance levels. In order to understand how stances are important, you'll need to watch what happens when a person is in a high vs when a person is in a low stance. As stated before none of the fighters are fighting with their full capabilities. I know for a fact that I was working on 2 techniques. Low stance and a Jow Ga basic combination. You will also see another guy just working on take downs as he does not throw any strikes. You will also see student break contact when the command was giving. RULES OF THE SPARRING Rounds: No kicking.

In relation to stances, you'll see me fight in a low stance, move in a low stance, and drop into a low stance. You will also see the effects of this. This horse stance that I use here is to stand my ground. It is not the highly mobile horse stance that I use to attack with. I may have an example of that or at least the training of it.

 

[Touch Of Death]

IMPORTANT! IMPORTANT! IMPORTANT! This video is not a style vs style video or a "who fights better video" This video is of a bunch of guys who got together to spar to learn. This video is not a TRUE TEST of a complete fighting skill set that they may or may not possess. What this video does show are students working on various techniques and strategies found within their system and or within their own assumptions of what they think they can do as an attack or defense, that may or may not be in line with the system that they train. I respect everyone in the video and I think highly of their efforts to train and learn. You'll hear people enjoy themselves, laugh, and encourage others. Please do not take these videos out of context.

Now on the discussion of the horse stance. In the video you will see me (in the red shirt, red head gear) use various stance levels. In order to understand how stances are important, you'll need to watch what happens when a person is in a high vs when a person is in a low stance. As stated before none of the fighters are fighting with their full capabilities. I know for a fact that I was working on 2 techniques. Low stance and a Jow Ga basic combination. You will also see another guy just working on take downs as he does not throw any strikes. You will also see student break contact when the command was giving. RULES OF THE SPARRING Rounds: No kicking.

In relation to stances, you'll see me fight in a low stance, move in a low stance, and drop into a low stance. You will also see the effects of this. This horse stance that I use here is to stand my ground. It is not the highly mobile horse stance that I use to attack with. I may have an example of that or at least the training of it.

Nice.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I basically do your high stance, with my legs bent a little more. The deep stance thing is not in my arsenal.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I basically do your high stance, with my legs bent a little more. The deep stance thing is not in my arsenal.

The deep stance isn't a stance that needs to always be done. It's one of those time and place type things where if the situation requires it then you can use it. If legs are too weak to maintain a low or even just a "lower than high" stance then that lower stance isn't an option, it's a burden.

I also recognized and accept that some fighting systems don't have or train techniques that utilizes the low stance. If a system doesn't have techniques that utilize a low stance then there's no need to practice using a low stance. The system I train in has a lot of techniques that are designed to be used at the same height of a low stance as a result we require some really strong legs

 

[jobo]

IMPORTANT! IMPORTANT! IMPORTANT! This video is not a style vs style video or a "who fights better video" This video is of a bunch of guys who got together to spar to learn. This video is not a TRUE TEST of a complete fighting skill set that they may or may not possess. What this video does show are students working on various techniques and strategies found within their system and or within their own assumptions of what they think they can do as an attack or defense, that may or may not be in line with the system that they train. I respect everyone in the video and I think highly of their efforts to train and learn. You'll hear people enjoy themselves, laugh, and encourage others. Please do not take these videos out of context.

Now on the discussion of the horse stance. In the video you will see me (in the red shirt, red head gear) use various stance levels. In order to understand how stances are important, you'll need to watch what happens when a person is in a high vs when a person is in a low stance. As stated before none of the fighters are fighting with their full capabilities. I know for a fact that I was working on 2 techniques. Low stance and a Jow Ga basic combination. You will also see another guy just working on take downs as he does not throw any strikes. You will also see student break contact when the command was giving. RULES OF THE SPARRING Rounds: No kicking.

In relation to stances, you'll see me fight in a low stance, move in a low stance, and drop into a low stance. You will also see the effects of this. This horse stance that I use here is to stand my ground. It is not the highly mobile horse stance that I use to attack with. I may have an example of that or at least the training of it.

thanks for that, you look a bit good, respect, but you low stance isn't that low

 

[Touch Of Death]

thanks for that, you look a bit good, respect, but you low stance isn't that low

Is that bad?

 

[jobo]

Is that bad?

no, not from my point of view, I envisaged something like the picture above. I could very nearly go that low, even with my hip mobility issues

 

[drop bear]

In a lot of traditional places you always see them saying drop your stances but when they do it their stances are quite high. I don't see any value to having a super low stance a good one yes but not one where your knees are nearly touching the floor. I mean look at boxers or mma fighters the majority don't use super low stances and yet they can still hit and have good balance

 

[JowGaWolf]

thanks for that, you look a bit good, respect, but you low stance isn't that low

It's a low stance. I think you have a misconception of what a low horse stance actually is. You only need to look at the height difference between me an my opponent to tell that I'm in a low stance.

The videos below are not proper low horse stance. You can tell by his structure that he will not be able to move effectively while in a stance like this. .

This is also not correct

You won't ever see me in a stance this low unless I'm grappling or defending against someone trying to take me down. This picture is from one of the grappling classes I was teaching. At this height the goal is not to be mobile in my stance. The student in the white is shorter than me. The girl in the picture is definitely shorter than me, yet I'm the same height as her.
In the picture (A year after the videos of me) I asked to student to try to take me down by either going for my waist or my legs. I started in a high fighting stance, he went for the take down so I dropped my stance. What you see in the picture is him putting on the breaks, had he continued he would have ran into my fist. My waist is beyond his reach. If he tries to grab my leg then, my response will be to hit him in his head as he tried. My hands are free to assist in my defense of a take down. If he tries to rush me, I'll just simply step back and use his energy against him. From this stance I still have the option to Heel kick, snap kick (toe kick), side kick, and a kick to the shin by using my rear leg. (Joe Rogan calls it an oblique kick). I 'm also can launch a knee strike from this position as my knees are already in the position to jump, leap, shuffle forward. I can also do a sweep from this position as well. Because I'm already low, the sweep will come out sooner. The other thing about this stance is that it's not permanent. I can come out of the stance once the threat of a take down is either gone or greatly reduced. I still have forward and backward mobility at this height, but it's forward and backward mobility over a short distance. I can't dance around around a ring with the agility of a boxer at this height.

 

[JowGaWolf]

no, not from my point of view, I envisaged something like the picture above. I could very nearly go that low, even with my hip mobility issues

The reality of a horse stance is that it's not based on a height as much as your own body structure. What would be low for you may not be low for me, but what it is to me doesn't matter. The rule that I use for a horse stance is that if you cannot do anything but stand in a horse, then the stance is too low. There is a limit of how low I can go with a horse stance because I begin to not only have mobility issues but I also start burning more energy than needed just to take a stance. A lot of the horse stances that we see people do are wrong. People often do a horse stance for the sake of making it low. They don't think about function so long as it's low.

 

[Flying Crane]

The reality of a horse stance is that it's not based on a height as much as your own body structure. What would be low for you may not be low for me, but what it is to me doesn't matter. The rule that I use for a horse stance is that if you cannot do anything but stand in a horse, then the stance is too low. There is a limit of how low I can go with a horse stance because I begin to not only have mobility issues but I also start burning more energy than needed just to take a stance. A lot of the horse stances that we see people do are wrong. People often do a horse stance for the sake of making it low. They don't think about function so long as it's low.

Such as, butt sagging below the level of the knees, toes splayed outward. Those are signs that you are too low.

 

[jobo]

It's a low stance. I think you have a misconception of what a low horse stance actually is. You only need to look at the height difference between me an my opponent to tell that I'm in a low stance.

The videos below are not proper low horse stance. You can tell by his structure that he will not be able to move effectively while in a stance like this. .

This is also not correct

You won't ever see me in a stance this low unless I'm grappling or defending against someone trying to take me down. This picture is from one of the grappling classes I was teaching. At this height the goal is not to be mobile in my stance. The student in the white is shorter than me. The girl in the picture is definitely shorter than me, yet I'm the same height as her.
In the picture (A year after the videos of me) I asked to student to try to take me down by either going for my waist or my legs. I started in a high fighting stance, he went for the take down so I dropped my stance. What you see in the picture is him putting on the breaks, had he continued he would have ran into my fist. My waist is beyond his reach. If he tries to grab my leg then, my response will be to hit him in his head as he tried. My hands are free to assist in my defense of a take down. If he tries to rush me, I'll just simply step back and use his energy against him. From this stance I still have the option to Heel kick, snap kick (toe kick), side kick, and a kick to the shin by using my rear leg. (Joe Rogan calls it an oblique kick). I 'm also can launch a knee strike from this position as my knees are already in the position to jump, leap, shuffle forward. I can also do a sweep from this position as well. Because I'm already low, the sweep will come out sooner. The other thing about this stance is that it's not permanent. I can come out of the stance once the threat of a take down is either gone or greatly reduced. I still have forward and backward mobility at this height, but it's forward and backward mobility over a short distance. I can't dance around around a ring with the agility of a boxer at this height.

that one looks a good bit lower than the one in the vid. I find a lot of martial arts counter intuitive. I learnt to fight as a young man when I had little body weight, commonly against people a 60 lbs heaver than me. So I'm programed to use the physical advantages I have, which was my height/, range my speed and my mobility. I also don't defend, I attack. I hit people as hard and as often as i could. To take them out them before they could use their weight/ strengh against me.
doing anything that makes me smaller and less mobile just seems wrong. But then seeing you do it and make it work very well, gives pause for thought

 

[JowGaWolf]

In a lot of traditional places you always see them saying drop your stances but when they do it their stances are quite high.

I think this is one of those misconceptions of technique vs applications. I've tried to drop my stance in the past and I go it wrong a lot before I started to get it right. Again this is a technique that is for a specific defense at a specific point in time. The solution or technique isn't
Step 1: Drop stance.

The solution is
Step 1: Drop stance
Step 2: Do something that takes advantage of your opponent's lost of balance caused by the stance drop. The technique will fail you every time if you don't do #2

You can see the drop stance technique fail here. The hung ga guy did everything wrong with dropping the stance. A stance drop is quick. He lowered himself. and his timing was off. The video seems to have cut off but the stance drop should have happened before the guy had a chance to get a good grip on him. After that grip, he should have used his stance to do a different technique and not a stance drop.

 

[JowGaWolf]

that one looks a good bit lower than the one in the vid. I find a lot of martial arts counter intuitive. I learnt to fight as a young man when I had little body weight, commonly against people a 60 lbs heaver than me. So I'm programed to use the physical advantages I have, which was my height/, range my speed and my mobility. I also don't defend, I attack. I hit people as hard and as often as i could. To take them out them before they could use their weight/ strengh against me.
doing anything that makes me smaller and less mobile just seems wrong. But then seeing you do it and make it work very well, gives pause for thought

You being smaller means that you can force taller and bigger people to improperly lift you.

Scenario: Mark 2:23 in the sparring video.
Problem: A taller person tries to pick you up.
Solution: Make yourself lower and force your attacker to lift you incorrectly. From here the goal is to force your opponent to do a bad lift, then he will strain his back. Not sure if you had a back injury from lifting something the wrong way, but it is guaranteed to either stop the person from lifting or slow the person down.


How to make it work. Start low enough where your opponent has to reach down lower than he should to lift you. This is where the stance comes into play. It doesn't have to be a super low stance, just low enough to make your opponent take a bad angle at lifting you. The taller they are higher your stance can be. If they are your same height then you'll have to use the low stance.

You want to have your arms around your opponents waist because you need to try to put a curve in your opponents back. This is done by putting weight as close to the neck as possible. Keep in mind you have to do this quickly. Once you feel like you are in good enough position Jerk your body downward (aka drop stance, drop your weight). Now here's the secret so that the bigger person won't out muscle you. Before you drop your weight. You need to start turning your opponent's body right before you drop. This way you can get him to resist you in one direction while your weight drop takes advantage of it. This is why you see my opponent turn when I dropped my weight. He had to fight me turning him, fight an improper lift, and fight a downward motion almost all at the same time.

Scenario: Mark 1:04 in the sparring video.
Problem: If the taller person comes on top of you
Solution: First be low enough so you can attack below his waist. If the taller person presses in, then lift him from the bottom. You'll need to be in a good stance or you'll risk hurting your back.

It is difficult for a taller person to get down on your level because they have to work twice as hard to keep that same height. They may hit you with other techniques but you'll have the advantage to uproot them. Not sure if you have experienced this as a kid, but when I was kid I would lift guys who were double my weight, simply by lifting them from their legs. I only needed to lift them high enough to were they lose balance and the top weight falls over. It's like a human caber toss.
Caber toss reference.

 

[Buka]

I only practice my horse stance outside my buddy George's house.

First, you gotta' catch the sucker...

 

[Touch Of Death]

that one looks a good bit lower than the one in the vid. I find a lot of martial arts counter intuitive. I learnt to fight as a young man when I had little body weight, commonly against people a 60 lbs heaver than me. So I'm programed to use the physical advantages I have, which was my height/, range my speed and my mobility. I also don't defend, I attack. I hit people as hard and as often as i could. To take them out them before they could use their weight/ strengh against me.
doing anything that makes me smaller and less mobile just seems wrong. But then seeing you do it and make it work very well, gives pause for thought

I don't know how good being taller does you if you have no power. Use as shallow a stance as you want, just bend your knees for power.

 

[jobo]

I don't know how good being taller does you if you have no power. Use as shallow a stance as you want, just bend your knees for power.

you generate power by going up on you toes, falling into you target,giving forward moment, body rotation and speed of movement. This actual increases your height advantage meaning you punching downwards , over their guard

 

[Touch Of Death]

you generate power by going up on you toes, falling into you target,giving forward moment, body rotation and speed of movement. This actual increases your height advantage leaning you punching downwards , over their guard

You lost me.

 

[jobo]

You lost me.

you get your spring from your calf muscles, not you thighs.

 

[Touch Of Death]

you get your spring from your calf muscles, not you thighs.

Sure, but why would I rise up on my toes, to thrust? It is more a steady downhill slide.