Is Knife defence even worth teaching?

[Chris Parker]

I honestly have no idea where you get your ideas from… it might be from your decision to ignore the words people write in lieu of you deciding what you think they mean… which I'm going to suggest is a really poor idea at the best of times.

 

[drop bear]

I honestly have no idea where you get your ideas from… it might be from your decision to ignore the words people write in lieu of you deciding what you think they mean… which I'm going to suggest is a really poor idea at the best of times.

OK. Simply put. If you accept that unarmed vs knife does not really work. How can you critique a method based on whether it works or not.

So you say my idea gets me stabbed. But your idea gets you stabbed. There is mabye a roll of the dice in the difference.

Now if you get off this nobody has experience but you insane pedastool that you are on. And actually discuss the topic like adults. We might actually be able to hold a two way conversation.

But I am not holding my breath to be honest.

 

[RTKDCMB]

I think people forget that we are dealing with a method that probably won't work. Which sucks. I know I would not like to train for years and still be a very small chance of winning an unarmed against knife. But it is what it is.

Have you ever noticed in videos like this they almost never present a better method of defending against a knife than the ones they call 'fantasy'. This one is like "here's how someone living in a fantasy world does it' "now for comparison here's how someone completely incompetent does it". Reality is likely somewhere in between.

 

[JP3]

Chris asked, "Out of interest, how much time is spent in your dojo dealing with knife response? And how much in knife training?

Thing is, "stay away from the blade", unless you manage to create quite a bit of distance (to escape) is really a short-term defence… and gets overwhelmed pretty quickly. You can only avoid for so long… eventually (pretty soon, really) you'll get caught… and then, well, it's the beginning of the end…"

Chris, honestly we don't spend enough time on it. We know it, but anything is better than nothing, generally. Unless we're not doing technically/practically sound stuff, I get that. Trying to work more and more knife work into my school's curriculum, but the time constraints are a hindrance to getting that done right.

I wasn't clear about it initially, but my phrase about "keep away from the blade," wasn't a reference to the time-honored Run-Fu techniques (i.e. Run Away! Run Away! - Monty Python fan), it was a tactical statement. If the blade is in attacker's R-hand, then we found it is a measurably-less stupid way to move in against the knife on the attacker's left side, attempting to get control of the unarmed side, and go right into the first nasty thing that could render the knife-wielding hand ineffective that pops into defender's mind.

I'll grant you, writing out the above is WAY easier than performing it competently.

To me, it's got to be quick/direct/brutal and over before the knife guy figures out that you didn't just run. Been to enough knife clinics where the instructor had everyone bring an extra white t-shirt that they didn't care about to, then "armed" everyone with Sharpie pens with red ink to point out exactly how easy it is to get cut, how many times you can get cut in a VERY short span of time, etc. Scares the bejeezus out of me thinking about fighting a dude with a knife who knows how to use it (Arnis, etc.). It is very weird to be in a seminar and have the instructor, in all seriousness, start saying things that sound like they come out of old-school Samurai code (because they did). Only fight when you are prepared to die, for a reason for which you are prepared to die and accept the death that comes and be surprised when it is you that did not die.

Yikes! It's a long way from judo class, that mindset. But, ti's what you got to have in order to survive on something other than luck. Though... it's always to have good luck, too.

 

[drop bear]

Have you ever noticed in videos like this they almost never present a better method of defending against a knife than the ones they call 'fantasy'. This one is like "here's how someone living in a fantasy world does it' "now for comparison here's how someone completely incompetent does it". Reality is likely somewhere in between.

I don't think there is a much better way. We can maby argue some semantics. But you are in so much trouble that the semantic argument seems a bit silly.

It is a crap position. So change the position. As far as I can tell escaping the unarmed vs knife dynamic is the priority. Not trying to finish the fight from there.

If I just pop a guy in the head. (Sucker punch him)There is a small chance he will collapse. If I grab the hand there is a small chance I will wrestle the knife off him.

I could do a combination of both and mabye raise my chance a bit.

But none of this is still this close clinch and finish mentality. Especially using technique that are knife focused. Because they are hard as all get out to pull off on a guy who fights back.

 

[drop bear]

Every time I restrained a guy with arm locks I am basically using anti knife techniques. I have done this mostly with bottles. Because that is a more common weapon.

But that is using a team to sneak up on a guy and double goose neck him.

This is what we did when a guy was seen to have a weapon or suspected of having a weapon.

Two guys grab his arms and the third searched him. No arms no weapon.

Or I would get them while their hand is reaching into their pocket. (I also disarmed some phones and cigarette packets. But hey it is a stupid move if you are making threats)

These were probably the safest knife disarms I have done. Knife or bottle out and getting waved around is really risky.

Again safest done with a team,clamp both arms,no arms no weapon.

I have stripped knives and bottles off people. And talked my way out of a gun or two.

I used a variation of the outer wristlock throw mostly. That has worked best for me. And I have known guys who have just sucker punched guys. And that worked for them generally as well.

 

[JP3]

Drop Bear, I have to ask where you "did" these techniques, as I am sensing a like historical behavior in the Force...

 

[drop bear]

Drop Bear, I have to ask where you "did" these techniques, as I am sensing a like historical behavior in the Force...

I used to bounce for a bit. Well all sorts of security jobs.