How do you defend against this? (Knife Attack)

[Dolev]

You need to be aware of your attacker, with this much distance you wanna focus on his feet and upper body, there will be a small twitch before he takes off at that moment take a kicking stance and focus on the knife, best chance is to side step, grab his wrist, pull, kick, knock him over and knee the knife out of his hand and kill him. In a real life situation knock him down and try disorienting him while you run away to a public area.

 

[Cyriacus]

You need to be aware of your attacker, with this much distance you wanna focus on his feet and upper body, there will be a small twitch before he takes off at that moment take a kicking stance and focus on the knife, best chance is to side step, grab his wrist, pull, kick, knock him over and knee the knife out of his hand and kill him. In a real life situation knock him down and try disorienting him while you run away to a public area.

In the video, the defender was aware of the attack coming, and had His jacket pre-prepared in His hands. It doesnt get much better than that.

 

[Dolev]

Let me rephrase the look at his footwork and shoulders. Furthermore the guy did nothing with the jacket he could've used a silat scarf move which would immobilize the attackers hand. There are many factors as to what will happen when attacked. Is he trained, how well imbued is his muscle memory (from a reaction time of 1.5 seconds a well trained individuals can react as fast as 0.015 seconds) and experience; how experienced is the guy in street fights, seems to me he had none (doesn't look like a brawling type of guy).

 

[Cyriacus]

Let me rephrase the look at his footwork and shoulders. Furthermore the guy did nothing with the jacket he could've used a silat scarf move which would immobilize the attackers hand. There are many factors as to what will happen when attacked. Is he trained, how well imbued is his muscle memory (from a reaction time of 1.5 seconds a well trained individuals can react as fast as 0.015 seconds) and experience; how experienced is the guy in street fights, seems to me he had none (doesn't look like a brawling type of guy).

Hehe.
Ok.
1: He had under half a second to react to a guy rushing Him. Wrapping something like that around someones arm relies on seeing it coming, then reacting faster than it can get to you. His arms would need to be wrapping that wrist within roughly 2/5ths of a second. Lets assume He has a reaction time of 0.001 seconds, and has ALL that time to do it. Good luck, have fun.
2: Is He trained? Sure, thats a factor. How well inbued is His muscle memory? See above. How experienced is He in Street Fights?
Is that the part where Youre the hardened street warrior? If Youre not, cool. If You 'are', have fun with that, along with the 2/5ths of a second if not less jacket around the arm.

His Footwork is CHARGE, and His Shoulders and Arms are Stabbing. Even if it was telegraphed, the attack aint going to be slower as a result. Its the same attack, and the person here literally knew the attack was coming, from which hand, and so on.
In a real knife attack, You likely wont see the guy coming until Hes just about ready to rush You, let alone which Hand the knife is in, and how He plants to stab You, how long the knife is, and apparently Your jacket is conveniently in Your hands for just such an occasion.

 

[72ronin]

So my first thought of a x block was met with a 'ehh.....' I picked up Black Belt Magazine told for the first time in 15 years for the article on Hee-Il Cho, and flipping through it I find another article - "Project X - Why you need to revisit the traditional x-block for your self defense needs" Interesting article, makes some good points on how to use it (not against knife though) effectively.

For me, the timing is wrong for it. Imagine the level of dedication on the attackers thrust needed to make our x-block (leading to whatever) effective? Huge.

Next time your sparring, try to catch a punch with x-block and then work for something, you might catch one if your lucky. And on top of that you would have to be even luckier to be able to work from it to whatever you want from there if your getting any decent amount of resistance.
You should find It only suits an extremely over commited straight thrust.

And to be honest, even then i dont see why you would want to commit yourself to that position, if you fail you are exactly where he expects/wants you to be (you remained in front of) for his next shot, and you have probably lost the timing and movement advantage aswell.

 

[bluewaveschool]

Interestingly, only one example in the article used the X-Block in the traditional 'catch a punch' . Also, in a later post in this thread I did say that after working on it with another instructor, we decided it was somewhat viable, but certainly not the best defense we came up with.

 

[Dolev]

Hehe.
Ok.
1: He had under half a second to react to a guy rushing Him. Wrapping something like that around someones arm relies on seeing it coming, then reacting faster than it can get to you. His arms would need to be wrapping that wrist within roughly 2/5ths of a second. Lets assume He has a reaction time of 0.001 seconds, and has ALL that time to do it. Good luck, have fun.
2: Is He trained? Sure, thats a factor. How well inbued is His muscle memory? See above. How experienced is He in Street Fights?
Is that the part where Youre the hardened street warrior? If Youre not, cool. If You 'are', have fun with that, along with the 2/5ths of a second if not less jacket around the arm.

His Footwork is CHARGE, and His Shoulders and Arms are Stabbing. Even if it was telegraphed, the attack aint going to be slower as a result. Its the same attack, and the person here literally knew the attack was coming, from which hand, and so on.
In a real knife attack, You likely wont see the guy coming until Hes just about ready to rush You, let alone which Hand the knife is in, and how He plants to stab You, how long the knife is, and apparently Your jacket is conveniently in Your hands for just such an occasion.

HAHAHA, man I love you. You're really knowledgeable, I'm not.
Hardened street fighter, I'm 16 in the very few brawls I was in there were no knives involved maybe a bat at most and that's when you run. Anyways I think he could've utilized the bursting techniques used in krav maga. I mean considering you're the idiot who put your family in danger There isn't much of an argument to be made. Knives are dangerous, beating an armed opponent needs more than skill, you need luck. Wrapping the opponent is near impossible but what a about usin the jacket as a whip. Stabbing motions are usually circular, put together with a charge your opponent won't be expecting you to charge in close. So how about charging in and grabbing his wrist while turning and executing a throw, the turnig is so you have a better view at the knife since he will hug and hammer away at your back.

I like your challenges they make me think of other possible ways of why I should run when confronted with an armed opponent

 

[Cyriacus]

HAHAHA, man I love you. You're really knowledgeable, I'm not.

Without sounding egotistical, the important thing is that Youre not taking the approach some people take of declaring themselves right no matter what. Cheers

Hardened street fighter, I'm 16 in the very few brawls I was in there were no knives involved maybe a bat at most and that's when you run.

Fairly standard then - Thats good.

Anyways I think he could've utilized the bursting techniques used in krav maga. I mean considering you're the idiot who put your family in danger There isn't much of an argument to be made. Knives are dangerous, beating an armed opponent needs more than skill, you need luck.

And fitness. Speed kills when it comes to being at a disadvantage. The problem is the backstep. Its hard to not be sent careening backward when someone rushes forward. Which is why sidestepping exists - To try and avoid being ploughed back. Now, it is possible to power out using a linear charge against a linear charge, but the problem then is that it can come down to luck. Whatll happen first? Will You hit the guy 1-4ish times effectively in the head, or will he cut your arms up and leave you with burst arteries (Such as the one near the elbow) and a few thrusts to the lungs? Unarmed it makes sense, but armed, not so much. Luck certainly helps, but the other thing that helps is excluding all the stuff that will get You into trouble. Like taking one step backward.

Wrapping the opponent is near impossible but what a about usin the jacket as a whip.

A whip sounds good in theory, but can you whip a jacket as fast as someone can thrust their arm? Get a fork and a piece of paper. Hold the paper out in front of you, then jab it with the fork as fast as you can. Now go get a jacket and whip it as fast as you can at the arm of a chair hard enough to move the chair. Because a forward moving arm is probably even harder to move than that

Stabbing motions are usually circular,

Semi-Circular, but sure, lets go with that.

put together with a charge your opponent won't be expecting you to charge in close. So how about charging in and grabbing his wrist while turning and executing a throw, the turnig is so you have a better view at the knife since he will hug and hammer away at your back.

Because moving in just puts you closer to the knife. And considering this is probably gonna happen from 1-3ish steps away, You moving toward the knife isnt wise. Moving sideways remains a superior option. Also, avoid saying "He will". Say You ran straight in, and stopped His full bore forward charge with your 1/2 to 1 step forward and grab the wrist. His other arm will probably go around your head or around your waist, or just punch you in the head. Or just run you over because you stopping his full bore forward charge was just being considerate. And lets not forget that We're talking about grabbing a fast forward moving arm out of midair as You turn towards it. Moving towards it makes it get to You faster, not slower

I like your challenges they make me think of other possible ways of why I should run when confronted with an armed opponent

Thats kinda My intention. But running isnt always possible or sensible.
When You have no choice but to engage, or You dont have time to do any brain-thinky things, having Your first instinct be to flee could get You into more trouble if fleeing isnt possible. If You can prevent Yourself from being stabbed for a moment, THEN decide to run, thatll do better. And if You manage to overwhelm Your opponent, all the better, but it wont always be possible. Just aim to prevent being harmed as much as possible, then worry about retaliation.

 

[Dolev]

If he doesn't stop his full bore charge and you have passed the disciple phase and into the expert phase as a jujitsuka or an aikidoka you could probably flip him over. Now the whip was mean to be used as an attack to the face using the metal zipper as the edged point of the jacket whip. Presuming it would work side stepping would solve this situation easily.

Though instinctively I would side step I'd also have to immobilize him, my best guess break his elbow and aim for his knees. If you're really pumped adrenaline wise I'd say it's possible to go for a straight forward grab and get your hand pierced as you gouge his eyes and murder him.

IMHO you should simulate this with a wooden knife or tango on a daily basis. Get a friend who is the attacker and just tell him surprise me at any time. Last summer my friend asked me to do that to him with my dulled katana. Of course once he got the hang of his jujitsu technique I got hurt but so did he from me bashing him with a dulled 33 inch blade; I didn't try to break his arm since it would have been fairly easy at the beginning but as we progressed I put more force and speed to my strikes which did end up with a fracture arm but he healed pretty fast.

 

[Cyriacus]

If he doesn't stop his full bore charge and you have passed the disciple phase and into the expert phase as a jujitsuka or an aikidoka you could probably flip him over.

How? With Your aura of Jujitsukaness that stops knifes from murdering You? Under some circumstances, defense is impossible. In the video, defense is highly unlikely without restraining the person. What You do after that is irrelevant. A slapfighter could work from there. But You have to get there first. Remember that He will crash into You, trying to stab You at a rate of 2-3 thrusts a second.

Now the whip was mean to be used as an attack to the face using the metal zipper as the edged point of the jacket whip. Presuming it would work side stepping would solve this situation easily.

You realise the attacker would just use this as an opportunity to rotate slightly and continue charging? When You sidestep, You have to stop His attack somehow. Hitting Him in the face with a zipper will just make Him more intent on stabbing You, and Youve changed nothing, unless You fancy exposing Your entire side to being stuck with a knife for a few moments at close range. Worse, He could grapple into You, then stab You when Your hands arent even free to stop Him. To test this, hit Yourself in the face with a jacket. I assure You, You wont need to go to the hospital.

Though instinctively I would side step I'd also have to immobilize him, my best guess break his elbow and aim for his knees.

Good in theory. But not so easy in application. You break His elbow, You need Your right hand on His right wrist (We're assuming Hes right handed for the sake of discussion) and Your left hand bashing the elbow, or the left hand on the wrist and the right hand on his right shoulder. Either way, You have zero defense against His empty hand hitting You, grabbing You, or pushing You. And if Youre close enough to go for His knees, Hes close enough to stab at Your everything, and lifting a foot off the ground whilst Hes charging into You isnt too wise.

If you're really pumped adrenaline wise I'd say it's possible to go for a straight forward grab and get your hand pierced as you gouge his eyes and murder him.

Haha! You seem to have the same ailment the earlier guy did. You presume that if You get His eyes, or throat, or something, Hes just paralysed from then on. If Your hands are on His eyes, Your entire body is totally exposed, and Id be expecting a few cuts to the underarm, lung, bicep, and possibly the head and kidneys. Good luck with that. Adrenalin takes a few seconds to kick in. You dont have a few seconds here. You have about 1 second to realise someone is in the process of attacking You.

IMHO you should simulate this with a wooden knife or tango on a daily basis.

Where did You think Ive been getting My information from

 

[Christian Soldier]

A few general replies to this thread:

Awareness is imperative.

Side steping would have really helped this guy out. Staying 'on the line' is one of the worst things you can do.

X blocks and knife attacks don't usually go well together due to the nature of the withdrawl which has then has the potential to cut both arms with in one shot.

Mearly striking the attacker will not stop the attack, proper control of the weapon is mandatory. Don't try anything untill you have control of that knife.

 

[Dolev]

To test this, hit Yourself in the face with a jacket. I assure You, You wont need to go to the hospital.

I took your advice, i hit myself in the eye and went to the clinic, i have to wear an eye-patch kinda thing till Friday. I'm not even kidding, at least its better than the time i got glass shards in my eye!

How? With Your aura of Jujitsukaness that stops knifes from murdering You? Under some circumstances, defense is impossible. In the video, defense is highly unlikely without restraining the person. What You do after that is irrelevant. A slapfighter could work from there. But You have to get there first. Remember that He will crash into You, trying to stab You at a rate of 2-3 thrusts a second.

With a well timed side step combined with a shiho nage rather than my incredibly powerful aura that crushes the ground under me when I'm enraged, that kinda thing is to powerful for such a silly attack.

 

[Cyriacus]

I took your advice, i hit myself in the eye and went to the clinic, i have to wear an eye-patch kinda thing till Friday. I'm not even kidding, at least its better than the time i got glass shards in my eye!

Im so sorry!
Seriously though, the chances of hitting a zipper on a jacket against an eye are amazing. I was expecting You to scratch Your cheek or something

With a well timed side step combined with a shiho nage rather than my incredibly powerful aura that crushes the ground under me when I'm enraged, that kinda thing is to powerful for such a silly attack.

Like this?

 

[Chris Parker]

Though instinctively I would side step...

Honestly, there's a lot of bad ideas in this thread, but to address just one, no, Dolev, you wouldn't. Instinct would have you moving back on what's referred to as the "primal line", which is straight forward or back, against a sudden attack. You may think that side-stepping makes sense (and yeah, it does), but the ability to do that needs to be trained quite a lot, under quite a serious adrenaline surge, before you have any real hope of pulling it off... and even then, your initial action will be to move straight back along the primal line.

Just so you know.

 

[Dolev]

Honestly, there's a lot of bad ideas in this thread, but to address just one, no, Dolev, you wouldn't. Instinct would have you moving back on what's referred to as the "primal line", which is straight forward or back, against a sudden attack. You may think that side-stepping makes sense (and yeah, it does), but the ability to do that needs to be trained quite a lot, under quite a serious adrenaline surge, before you have any real hope of pulling it off... and even then, your initial action will be to move straight back along the primal line.

Just so you know.

I've been trained, and after repeating a move so many times i reflexively side step, I've sparred numerous times and I usually side step.

 

[Chris Parker]

The difference between that and an actual assault, particularly with a weapon, is gigantic. You might as well say that you can handle a formula one car as you've been racing go-karts for years.

 

[Dolev]

True, but i've also been in brawls where the danger is very real and once again I've sidestepped, muscle memory is a pretty powerful thing; it becomes an instinct.

 

[Cyriacus]

Brawls that didnt involve knife rushes

 

[Chris Parker]

True, but i've also been in brawls where the danger is very real and once again I've sidestepped, muscle memory is a pretty powerful thing; it becomes an instinct.

So let's get this straight... you claim a rank of "Mukyu" (no rank), did a couple months of karate when you were 16, are currently doing "Akban conditioning" (via their website/you-tube, I'd surmise? And yes, I'm pretty familiar with the Akban guys...), claim to have "every martial art known" within 20 minutes of your house (hardly... I could probably mention quite a few that I've had experience in, as well as many others, that you have little chance of having near you), talk about "being past the disciple level, into the expert level" of jujutsu, talk about Aikido throws (that don't really have relevance), and say a number of other things that really show that you're not particularly informed as of yet when it comes to martial arts... so the question is where has this training in order to instill "muscle memory" might have come from? For the record, I can pretty much guarantee that your initial action was straight back, unless the other guy was coming from a long distance away... which would again minimize the adrenal surge.

In other words, basic physiology is working against you here.

 

[Dolev]

First off, one is allowed to assume, I am assuming an expert in jujutsu or aikido can execute this throw. I haven't done martial arts for 3 years thus rendering me a mukyu, I am not taking any ranked martial arts thus i am a mukyu. I lived in israel for 6 years and my brother went to Akban, I simply did what he did at home (The exercises and have continued with it till this day). 20km is quite a distance here due to the heavy traffic. Here is a list of the martial arts taught near me; Bujinkan, Eskrima, Muay Thai, Muay Boran, Sambo, Krav Maga, Shaolin Kung Fu, JKD, Pankration, Boxing, Tang Soo Do, Savate, Kendo, Fencing, Karate, Vale Tudo, Hapkido, Aikido, Judo, Taekwondo, Wing Chun, BJJ, Wrestling, Iaido, shotokan, goju, and wado karate, Chanquan, and Taichi quan. I'm sure you can think of many more but even if you can i'm sure i can find them and train at that martial art. The Teachers might be fake but its still in a 20km radius, i just haven't bothered to check those i'm not intrested in. I am currently 16, I did kung fu for 7 years. An aikido throw which utilizes a wrist lock can be a helpful technique, im not saying that the situation perfectly replicates the use of the move put you can modify the starting position to the situation.

Could you please tell me what i've said that made you think that i'm not particularly informed and I'll explain my reasoning to it.