How did Taekwon-Do (1955) predating 1966 look like?

[Gnarlie]

Force is mass multiplied by acceleration

Kinetic energy is 1/2mass multiplied by square of velocity

The kicker is what makes the difference.

 

[Laplace_demon]

Force is mass multiplied by acceleration

Kinetic energy is 1/2mass multiplied by square of velocity

The kicker is what makes the difference.

If one technique slows down the acceleration, then it doesn't matter if he puts more body behind it, it will not hit the target harder, than the olympic kick. Suppose it's the same guy performing both kicks.

 

[Gnarlie]

At first sight, you would think so. But the physics is complex beyond the realms of those formulae. Lot of variables.

 

[Laplace_demon]

At first sight, you would think so. But the physics is complex beyond the realms of those formulae. Lot of variables.

I promise you this will be true. The Choi "science team" did not take this into concideration. Olympic TKD kicks traveling at tremendous acceleration will outperform their kick in power.

 

[Gnarlie]

I promise you this will be true. The Choi "science team" did not take this into concideration. Olympic TKD kicks traveling at tremendous acceleration will outperform their kick in power.

Both kicks have their advantages and disadvantages. For example, kicking with the ball of the foot transfers the available force through a much smaller surface area...

I wouldn't rule anything out just yet.

 

[Drose427]

If one technique slows down the acceleration, then it doesn't matter if he puts more body behind it, it will not hit the target harder, than the olympic kick. Suppose it's the same guy performing both kicks.

Specific Technique has very little to do with a persons execution speed, so it really cant slow down acceleration.

Think reverse punch vs boxing jab/straight. You can find videos easily of both having similar speeds.

I promise you this will be true. The Choi "science team" did not take this into concideration. Olympic TKD kicks traveling at tremendous acceleration will outperform their kick in power.

You promise?
That sounds very certain from a guy who had to have mass x velocity explained.

In theory, because our high knee raise we should kick slower than styles who dont. But most people at our school arent. Theyre the swme speed youll see in am kickboxing, or karate, and TKD tourneys.

Execution Speed depends almost entirely on the person.

So the "kukki kicks harder cause faster" argument doesnt really hold.


Not to mention there are matches and videos where "Kukki-kickers" so to speak, are kicking faster, but arent ceating the same impact as other TKD style of kicking.

 

[Laplace_demon]

Not to mention there are matches and videos where "Kukki-kickers" so to speak, are kicking faster, but arent ceating the same impact as other TKD style of kicking.

Because their acceleration isn't superior enough. However, from an idealistic perspective, having both optimized, then it's still generally accepted that the old school kick can not hit the target as fast (still fast) as the the later olympic TKD one. If it however can hit it just as fast, then the old school kick wins by definition. I very much doubt that though, because of the body mechanics involved.

 

[Tez3]

However, from an idealistic perspective, having both optimized, then it's still generally accepted that the old school kick can not hit the target as fast (still fast) as the the later olympic TKD one.

Are you sure about this because on the Anderson Silva thread you stated that TKD hadn't progressed.

here we go.

Drose427 said: ↑
"For further explanation (cause i feel demon will need it) competition standard and skill of fighters have both been increasing for a long time now, so a video from 10 years ago is hardly representative"
You said...
"No evidence of that. If there is: show it."

 

[Drose427]

Because their acceleration isn't superior enough. However, from an idealistic perspective, having both optimized, then it's still generally accepted that the old school kick can not hit the target as fast (still fast) as the the later olympic TKD one. If it however can hit it just as fast, then the old school kick wins by definition. I very much doubt that though, because of the body mechanics involved.

I dont think its "generally accepted" from anyone within TKD. You may like to think that, but Ive never heard anyone within TKD that one way is inherently faster or nore powerful

That sounds a lot like the Guys who train Muay thai 2 days a week and think they kick faster and harder than the Karate or TKD who trains 4-7 days a week.

It isnt more powerful or faster just because you think it is.

Again, a reverse punch is different mechanically, but you can easily find boxers whose jabs/sttaights are slower and softer than a tkdoers reverse punch

And again, you can see equal speed and power with with both knee raise and kukkistyle techs(or any similar straight legged style for that matter)

 

[Laplace_demon]

Are you sure about this because on the Anderson Silva thread you stated that TKD hadn't progressed.

This was already prevalent in the early 90s and 80s, possibly 70s too. But we refer to it as the Olympic TKD kick. If I train both like a nut, and perform them both optimally, then I will dispute General Chois contention, yes. The olympic kick will be both faster and harder. Thus superior in all respects in terms of power and speed.

For all intents and purposes, his old school kick will still hit harder, because most performers can't reach the acceleration difference which the Olympic versions strives to achieve

 

[Tez3]

This was already prevalent in the early 90s and 80s, possibly 70s too. But we refer to it as the Olympic TKD kick. If I train both like a nut, and perform them both optimally, then I will dispute General Chois contention, yes. The olympic kick will be both faster and harder. Thus superior in all respects in terms of power and speed.

For all intents and purposes, his old school kick will still hit harder, because most performers can't reach the acceleration difference which the Olympic versions strives to achieve

no, you said in the Anderson Silva thread that TKD hadn't progressed yet here you are saying that it has progressed because the later kick is better than the previous one so which is it?

 

[Laplace_demon]

no, you said in the Anderson Silva thread that TKD hadn't progressed yet here you are saying that it has progressed because the later kick is better than the previous one so which is it?

Where did I say TKD has not progressed?

 

[Drose427]

no, you said in the Anderson Silva thread that TKD hadn't progressed yet here you are saying that it has progressed because the later kick is better than the previous one so which is it?

Im pretty sure his answer depends entirely on what we tell/explain to him and what he reads online.

Hes doing same, "this is better because i heard it is, or think it is" i hear from guys who think they know MMA, and still argue when corrected by the coaches at the gym

Were did I say TKD has not progressed?

In a post or two above she quoted the exact post.

 

[Laplace_demon]

Drose claimed that the fighter have gotten better, quite seperate from if major changes have been made (which can be useless or good, completely independent).

The kick I refer to was already prevalent for the WTF when the korean got trashed against Paul Doumbia.

 

[Gnarlie]

Where did I say TKD has not progressed?

Do make an effort to read peoples posts. See post 248 in this thread.

 

[Laplace_demon]

Hes doing same, "this is better because i heard it is, or think it is" i hear from guys who think they know MMA, and still argue when corrected by the coaches at the gym

No, I argue on the basis of acceleration. The old school kick cannot (realistically) reach the same potential as the olympic kick.

 

[Tez3]

Where did I say TKD has not progressed?

Post 45 on the Anderson Silva thread, posted on 22nd April 2015 at 1042 BST.

 

[Gnarlie]

Drose claimed that the fighter have gotten better, quite seperate from if major changes have been made (which can be useless or good, completely independent).

The kick I refer to was already prevalent for the WTF when the korean got trashed against Paul Doumbia.

Funny that there are no other details of that match around other than that sketchy video. I find it disappointing that the Korean's name is not mentioned although he was supposedly a then WTF champion (a not the because weight categories). If we had a name we could verify...suspect.

 

[Laplace_demon]

Post 45 on the Anderson Silva thread, posted on 22nd April 2015 at 1042 BST.

Fighters progressing and TKD as an art progressing is not the same thing.

 

[Drose427]

No, I argue on the basis of acceleration. The old school kick cannot (realistically) reach the same potential as the olympic kick.

How not?

The knee raise cuts back on overall distance traveled during the execution of the kick to the point of contact.

Which affects the time spent in overall acceleration, allowing the overall power and speed to be equalized between techs.

My instructor used to regularly fight Mark Lopez at the state and National level in the 90s, and his knee raise kick was every bit as fast and as hard.


This how you can find clips of guys kicking as hard and fast as Kukki TKD and even outside styles such as MT and Karate.

You can try and ponder and theorize all you want, But it will never be the same as reality.

Youre just creating a lot of misonceptions for yourself