How did Basics get like this?

[Makalakumu]

BTW, what exactly is "He Cho Mahkee"?

Everyone elses reply pretty much sums up what I would have said. However, I would like to add that this is one of my pet peeves when it comes to Tang Soo Do. It's not the art, in particular, its the terminology. When I talk to other tangsoodoin, often I find that knowing what I'm talking about is hit or miss, when I use Korean terminology. There is no standardization and the pronounciation of the Korean has gotten so bad that mistakes have become generational. Tang Soo is in essence, tongue tied.

On top of this, "what exactly is he cho mahkee," that's a good question. I learned it as a basic technique at red belt in which we would march up and down the floor spreading our hands so that both arms would spread laterally from our bodies ending extended with both appendages bent perpendicular angles. What is that supposed to do?

This is why I feel so strongly that picking random moves from a form and practicing them as basics is really missing the point. I beleive these moves aren't meant to be dissected like that. It leads to an incorrect analysis that leads to a lot of misconceptions. The whole term, "spread block" doesn't really make any sense. What are you spreading? What are you blocking?

The answer is that its not "spreading" or "blocking" anything. It "could" be a lot of things, however. One of them, IMO, is kata guruma.

 

[YoungMan]

If you practiced Taekwondo or Tang Soo Do 50 years ago in Korea, you would have lived in a post war, semi lawless society where often the law was what you made it. You're damn right you would have practiced very hard because there was a good chance you were either going to get mugged or attacked by a rival kwan member. You settled scores with your martial art. Best fighter wins.
Today, in our society, there is simply not as much of a reason to be a hardened warrior because our culture is different. Can you get attacked? Sure, but it's not like you have to be on high alert all the time. People practice according to what their needs are.

 

[GINGERNINJA]

"By know, everyone who frequents this forum should know that Shotokan Karate gave birth to the art of TSD. If this is news to you, then take a quick search of this forum for threads on the origin on TSD." maunakuma.

because TANG SOO DO is not Shotokan ? the horse n carriage gave birth to the DODGE VIPER ?

 

[JT_the_Ninja]

On top of this, "what exactly is he cho mahkee," that's a good question. I learned it as a basic technique at red belt in which we would march up and down the floor spreading our hands so that both arms would spread laterally from our bodies ending extended with both appendages bent perpendicular angles. What is that supposed to do?

The answer is that its not "spreading" or "blocking" anything. It "could" be a lot of things, however. One of them, IMO, is kata guruma.

So...like the series of three moves from sip soo, with arms out to side in a sort of double outside-inside block? I can definitely see the shoulder wheel throw in that...*makes mental note to try it on one of his juniors*

I also see how the way we execute that move in the form obscures that interpretation. The standard interpretation is just a series of outside-inside block/strikes. We train sometimes with a bongs carried in our elbows (behind our necks) to keep our arms aligned. Always struck me as odd, but I see why you want them in line now -- you could be reaching down to toss someone across your shoulders.

The only other thing that comes to mind is to use the series to practice using waist rotation, rather than shoulder rotation, to drive a technique. Always a good idea, but it's great to see something else I might not have thought of otherwise.

Tang Soo!

 

[astrobiologist]

Wow... this is a deep thread. It's good to see martial artists everywhere are really figuring out that there is more to the martial art than just kicking and punching.

On the note of something always having to be lost as information is translated from generation to generation. This is not necessarily the case. What happens is that some things are lost in translation, others are discontinued due to the fact that they have no real use, and yet other things are added as they are deemed worthy.

Think about Wing Chun, for instance. There are some southern shaolin styles which had a remarkable number of techniques and forms. Most of what they were doing was for exercise and for aesthetics, not for fighting. Wing Chun is basically everything from those southern chinese styles that worked in fight scenarios. Everything else was not included in Wing Chun. So now Wing Chun is an extremely effective style, because so much that was unnessecary for learning self defense was removed.

 

[astrobiologist]

Tang Soo Do, in my opinion, is still a viable, strong art that just needs a little reformation. Those of us who are taking the time to interpret and study the martial arts know that modern day Tang Soo Do and Tae Kwon Do have become contaminated by competition, baton twirling, flashy techniques, and instructors who are money driven. It's very unfortunate. Don't get me wrong. If someone is completely into that way of playing karate then that's their prerogative, but I won't tell someone who wants to know how to defend themselves from a punch to do a jump 540 back kick. I enjoy twirling my staff once in a while, jumping over targets and doing handstands, and playing like I did when I was a child, but the Martial Arts are a serious endeavor. They are our shared human learning for how to keep our bodies and minds strong and for how to stand up for ourselves and for what is right. When I began learning about the history of martial arts, about Kobujutsu, about Isshin Ryu and Wado Ryu, about Jujitsu and Wing Chun and Aikido, about Arnis, and so on and so forth... I realized that Tang Soo Do can be a great martial art for real-world defense and character development, but it must continue to evolve from its native form. Hwang Kee knew a lot, but there was also a lot he didn't know. Being that TSD is less than a century old, there really isn't a "traditional" TSD to be learned. The art has not been developed and reworked enough yet.

 

[Tez3]

a simple google search brings back the following...

'Spreading' or 'Wedging' Block... No idea what that is, but there ya go.

Where you give some one a wedgie lol?

 

[Hand Sword]

How? As the process goes: Student learns and tries to copy teacher. Then student gets more and more comfortable tweaking things due to likes and dislikes, creating their own way. Finally, prominence comes and they take on students and teach their ways. It's just evolution at work.

 

[Tez3]

How? As the process goes: Student learns and tries to copy teacher. Then student gets more and more comfortable tweaking things due to likes and dislikes, creating their own way. Finally, prominence comes and they take on students and teach their ways. It's just evolution at work.

You weren't answering me were you? Just your post followed my facetious one, I could answer though lol?

 

[Makalakumu]

Since this material comes from the Karate Do Kyohan, it would be reasonable to assume that some Japanese styles still practice basics this way. Does anyone have any idea which styles still practice these basics? When I was in the JKA in the late 80s, we didn't do it.