How close do UFC fights come to real life self defence?

[BlackCatBonz]

i think any fight that is done for "contest" as opposed to a life saving or protection measure is entirely different. when someone is contest fighting they have time to prepare, view another fighters prior matches, develop some sort of strategy or game plan and finally to mentally prepare themselves to do battle.


Yeah but surely as Martial Artists who train in self defence we do to an exent train ourselves to do battle with an opponent with somebody who may come to fight us in real life. We prepare through mental prep and physical prep, so to an exent we are pre-prepared!
I dont know i may be wrong!

you hit the nail on the head when you said "self defense"
training for contest fighting is completely different than self defense fighting.
when i am training for self defense or training others.......endurance, lengthy strategy plotting, and sparring are out.
when 2 people contest fight, i agree that each contender may go in with a warrior attitude......but they also go in(for the most part) with some sense of honour and fair play.
in street fights there is no honour, no fair play.
the course of action in self defense is action itself. when being attacked, there is no defense......only a concentrated effort to total offense.
i was one of four doormen in a 500 seat club. when someone swings a bottle, pulls a knife or other sharp object, they are not concerned with fair play...... their only concern is how fast they can hurt you.
i dont necessarily agree that a NHB fighter would be an excellent self defense fighter, simply because true self defense training deals with a completely different mindset.

shawn

 

[Shu2jack]

Honestly, with as much time as the UFC competitiors spend circling each other and jockying for a better position, I would be 10 blocks away and still running in a self-defense situation.

 

[KenpoGuy71]

Combat sports is definitely not the same as self-defense.
But, I think we could learn a lot from training in an "alive" fashion as these individuals do.

Mix it in with awareness training, fear reactivity training, weapons etc.
A lot of the sparring I've seen is a game of tag... very little intent, imho.

When I say "Alive training", I mean "sparring". That doesn't mean sparring should replace your other training (including solo forms training), all I'm saying is that it should be an important aspect of your training

By the way, sparring to me is an integral part of the training process, not a means to an end. It is a way to train your fear reactivity, i.e. how to cope with your flinch reflex and adrenal response. This type of training (again imho) should be done at various speeds, such as slow movement sparring (without changing physics, i.e. track someones head by changing your force vector in the middle of your strike, which would be impossible at full speed); to full contact training wearing something like Tony Blauer's 'High Gear'.

People train for different reasons, but if you are serious about DEFENDING yourself, you should take the precautionary steps and train to defend yourself by training alive against fully resistant opponents.

Of course, the chances that anyone is going to get attacked are rather slim, much less being able to use your chosen art during a panicked state. However many people are under the illusion that they can actually defend themselves which in many cases are not the case (even with many years of training) when put in a stressful situation. I've seen a lot of "experienced" practiotioners panic and "freak out" during training sessions where we try to create and work on their fear reactivity.

Just my $0.02.

KG

 

[Shu2jack]

I've seen a lot of "experienced" practiotioners panic and "freak out" during training sessions where we try to create and work on their fear reactivity.

What kinds of things do you do to train one's "fear reactivity"?

 

[sgtmac_46]

I saw a UFC championship fight the other and noticed how almost all of the time the fights end up ground fighting of some kind. Is the UFC rules of fighting closer to self defence than to sparring do you think? Or does it depend?

Cheers

If you want the closest thing to a street fight, watch Tank Abbott fight. That's what most street fights look like. Sometimes they do end up on the ground, but it rarely ends in an arm bar (Notice I didn't say never does). It's fast paced and brutal.

I've been in several street fights and i've had to control aggressive subjects numerous times in my 8 year career as a street cop. The difference between the street and the UFC? Here's a few.

The guys you'll fight on the street aren't as tough (lets hope) as the guys you'll meet in the UFC, but that doesn't mean they can't fight.

There's an element of surprise on the street not present in the Octagon. If you're in the ring, you know why you're there and what you need to do. It's different on the street, where you have to decide when and IF to hit the other guy. There's no Ref to tell you when the fight starts and when it stops.

You don't always just fight one guy on the street.

They don't allow weapons in the Octagon (goes both ways).

One final important difference. There's no Ref to stop the fight and no ringside physician.

That having been said, an arm bar is an arm bar, a choke is a choke, a knock out punch is a knock out punch, in the UFC or on the street. (hint, the choke and the punch work even BETTER sometimes on the street, because you have the element of surprise).

I can tell you as a police defensive tactics instructor, if you're planning on that fancy combination to save your life, you've already lost. Keep it simple, because when the adrenaline kicks in, all you'll remember are the simple techniques. And you can't be afraid to hurt someone else. That's one of the most misunderstood parts of self-defense. Many people really don't want to hurt someone else, so they try to fight defensively (i.e., keep the other guy from hurting them). A good defense will get you hurt, aggression wins fights.

Just remember three important aspects of street combat....Speed, Surprise and Violence of Action.....and you'll probably be ok. (the fourth aspect of street combat is to accept that there are no guarantees, that's why there are very few old street fighters)

 

[tmanifold]

I would say that the UFC actually comes pretty close to a "street fight" but is light years away from Self Defense. When one thinks Street fight they tend to think of those fights they have seen at the bar. Self defense is more of the mugging, or straight assualt scenario. In a street fight both are will participants but in self defense only one wants the fight.

Tony

 

[sgtmac_46]

I would say that the UFC actually comes pretty close to a "street fight" but is light years away from Self Defense. When one thinks Street fight they tend to think of those fights they have seen at the bar. Self defense is more of the mugging, or straight assualt scenario. In a street fight both are will participants but in self defense only one wants the fight.

Tony

"Self-Defense" is a word I have to wonder sometimes doesn't put us behind the curve. Thinking defensively in certain situations may be a mistake. I find that taking the offense and becoming the aggressor, taking control and dominating and imposing my will in certain situations, results in a greater likelyhood of a positive outcome for me. Just a thought. If someone assaults me to dominate and destroy me, the last thing I want to be thinking is "Defense". I should be thinking "Attack, Attack, Attack". Defense is what the predator is prepared to deal with. Aggression usually scares predators away. Anyone who has been in the military and learned basic small unit tactics knows that when you are ambushed, you don't flee, you don't try and fight defensively, those responses are what the ambush is designed around and they will get you killed. You attack in to the ambush, as many times breaking the will of the ambushing party and causing enough damage to them by bringing the fight to them is the only hope you have.

 

[Kunoichi]

I dont think they have much in common to self defence but UFC fights are full contact so competitors are used to full force strikes. I think most people are not prepared for the shock from being hit and this causes them to lose the fight at the start. The UFC fighter might not have adrenalin going right away in the self-defence situation but I think they would be less off guard after they get hit first compared to the majority of people. This might just save them if they are surprise attacked.

 

[ace]

Having been in Streetfights & cadge Fights
I can say for sure it's dam harder in the cadge...

When im Fighting in the cadge the other Fighter
is trained to to do what ever it takes to win...

I've been in Street fights with a few Big Mouths
Who looked the looked & talked the Talk but when
the **** hit the Fan most Chumped out in a Matter of Seconds..

The danger in the St. is aganist Multi. Fighters
& Weapons.. But thats something no matter how hard U
Train U can never be 100% Ready..

MMA Fighters Train hard for a fight & Yes we have
the a chance to view tapes but when U are in the Dressing room
& they Say Your Up U have to be ready to give 100%

If U want to find out how good your Selfdefence is
Then Try MMA if Your Technique is as good as U think
Then U should have noproblems.

If U get Spanked down quick Maybe it's Time
to Rethink about the Training U are doing :asian:

 

[BlackCatBonz]

ace, would you not agree then that ufc full contact fighting is nothing like street self defense...or real life self defense?
like you said, "the **** hit the fan most chumped out in a matter of seconds"
i definitely think contest fighting is a different animal altogether from self defense.
it takes more stamina, strength, strategy and pre training in order to keep in top notch shape.
but each fighter isnt going into the ring with the intent of killing the other guy, and if they are......what the heck is wrong with them?

shawn

 

[SammyB57]

The UFC's taught one lesson. A striker with no grappling is screwed.

Personally, I like Bas Rutten's style. He is a very good kickboxer, but he can also fight on the ground.

I dont think 95% of fights end up on the ground UFC style, but I do think knowing how to use a clinch and knowing how to protect yourself on the ground is important.

 

[SammyB57]

Street fights and self-defense are different too.

Honestly, if you are defending your life, you need a gun nowadays. If someone is trying to kill you, they're just going to shoot you.

If they just want your money, give it to them.

If you're at a bar, you should just avoid fights, but if you cant, the sucker punch works nicely.

But karate doesn't matter.... being able to use a hammer you find in your garage as an improvised weapon is a much better skill.

 

[Simon Curran]

Street fights and self-defense are different too.

Honestly, if you are defending your life, you need a gun nowadays. If someone is trying to kill you, they're just going to shoot you.

If they just want your money, give it to them.

If you're at a bar, you should just avoid fights, but if you cant, the sucker punch works nicely.

But karate doesn't matter.... being able to use a hammer you find in your garage as an improvised weapon is a much better skill.

I agree with you in general, but most predators aren't looking to work too hard, and if they look like they might be getting in the crap with a particaular person then they are just gonna look for an easier prey...

 

[TChase]

the course of action in self defense is action itself. when being attacked, there is no defense......only a concentrated effort to total offense

"Self-Defense" is a word I have to wonder sometimes doesn't put us behind the curve. Thinking defensively in certain situations may be a mistake. I find that taking the offense and becoming the aggressor, taking control and dominating and imposing my will in certain situations, results in a greater likelyhood of a positive outcome for me. Just a thought. If someone assaults me to dominate and destroy me, the last thing I want to be thinking is "Defense". I should be thinking "Attack, Attack, Attack". Defense is what the predator is prepared to deal with. Aggression usually scares predators away. Anyone who has been in the military and learned basic small unit tactics knows that when you are ambushed, you don't flee, you don't try and fight defensively, those responses are what the ambush is designed around and they will get you killed. You attack in to the ambush, as many times breaking the will of the ambushing party and causing enough damage to them by bringing the fight to them is the only hope you have.

ABSOLUTELY!!! Truer words have never been spoken. I believe a certain wise old Japanese swordsman spoke those same words about 450 years ago. The "self defense" mindset is an illusion. If you want to beat the action you have to meet the action. Attack the Attack.

 

[ace]

ace, would you not agree then that ufc full contact fighting is nothing like street self defense...or real life self defense?
like you said, "the **** hit the fan most chumped out in a matter of seconds"
i definitely think contest fighting is a different animal altogether from self defense.
it takes more stamina, strength, strategy and pre training in order to keep in top notch shape.
but each fighter isnt going into the ring with the intent of killing the other guy, and if they are......what the heck is wrong with them?

shawn

Yes I agree 100% They are Different
There are things I would do in St Fight That
I would not do in The Ring Such as start of with A Nut Buster
or Pull My Knife.

MMA Fights are Much Tuffer than most St Fights
Many St Fights are stoped as they Happen.

I can Recall a Time I got Smacked in My Face
I shot a Double Leg Picked The Guy & Slamed Him
We were pounced on By Everyone in the Room & taken away
from Each other.

MMA is a form of Empty hand Self Defence for sure But
in Real Life The Hand is not alway's Empty.

 

[Adept]

MMA Fights are Much Tuffer than most St Fights
Many St Fights are stoped as they Happen.

I'll agree with that. However, it is important to remember that the stakes are much higher in the street, and the variables much harder to calculate. So while physically less challenging, it is 'harder' to succesfully fight in the street.

 

[punisher73]

The UFC proved that the best prepared fighter is the one that will win (strategy, technique, physical attributes and conditioning etc). Anything further about style vs. style and what you are really arguing is the man in the fight and the training methods used to get there.

One fallacy that I hear about MMA and "self-defense" is the assumption that they are ONLY trained as sports and the instructors don't talk at all about de-escalation, awareness, etc.

One fallacy that I hear about TMAs and "self-defense" is that they NEVER do sparring or practice against resisting opponents to in a "real fight" they won't know what to do.

I think that both camps can learn from each other and incorporate certain methodologies into their training to make them better prepared for a conflict outside of a ring.

 

[sgtmac_46]

It might bare keeping in mind the purpose of MMA. It was to test which styles worked best against each other. The Gracies and others were teaching guys to fight in the streets for years before the UFC. All the MMA tournaments did was seperate the wheat from the chaff.

 

[punisher73]

It was to test which styles worked best against each other. The Gracies and others were teaching guys to fight in the streets for years before the UFC. All the MMA tournaments did was seperate the wheat from the chaff.

I don't that it was that way totally. The first UFC's had the Gracies knowing exactly who was fighting and could train for it. Gracies had also spent all of their time training to defeat a striker and their system is largely based on that. People then looked at their strategy and filled the holes in it, so it all comes down to who has the better strategy and the tools/techniques to implement it.

 

[MJS]

Good point! The quality of people in the first few UFC events were really no match for Gracie. Notice though that by 3, when Gracie fought Kimo, and then went quite the distance with Severn, it was apparent that the quality had greatly risen.

Mike