Oni_Kadaki
Green Belt
I've known guys who are more concerned about a submission than they are about everyone walking off the mat happy, healthy and whole. I generally avoid rolling with such guys.
Hot head rolling partner
- Thread starter Headhunter
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Gnarlie
Master of Arts
Use your words? If your training partner is training in a way that you find inappropriate, talk to them and find agreement on what is and is not.
"I'm keen to continue rolling with you but I think we can both get more out of it: here's how."
Maybe work with him after class with the emphasis on co-operative training to learn rather than training to win. Talk about what you both learn from a roll each time. Sometimes young people just need a little shift in perspective.
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"I'm keen to continue rolling with you but I think we can both get more out of it: here's how."
Maybe work with him after class with the emphasis on co-operative training to learn rather than training to win. Talk about what you both learn from a roll each time. Sometimes young people just need a little shift in perspective.
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You think like a teacher or coach. Not everybody can do that. Too bad.
Headhunter
Senior Master
Well there's an interesting development. I went there today. I haven't been there in a few weeks because of other stuff happening and the instructor said to me he'd sorted the issue. I said okay fine. I didn't ask what he'd done because it's not my business. Anyway it was open mat first and I was watching because there was uneven numbers and the kid was rolling and I saw he was still just as aggressive and dangerous. I mentioned this to the instructor and he said. Don't worry it'll be sorted today. So anyway class happens (where the kid literally head butts someone when he's mounted) and I see what he did to solve it. He gave the kid a blue belt...I couldn't believe it tbh. I mean the kids not that great he's not terrible but he's equally matched with me I'd say and I'm certainly not a blue belt level plus the fact he's dangerous and hurts people. I saw a few looked not so happy. I know the instructor from 20 years ago so I haven't got a problem speaking up. After class I went up to him and said is that really you solving it? His answer was yeah by giving him a blue belt it'll make him happy which means he's less likely to hurt people. Honestly I was disgusted. First it's giving away undeserved rank which in itself I hate, second he promoted someone to stop them getting upset and hurting people. That's just wrong very disappointing
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
You can not fix everyone. Some people can not control their rage. We should not teach people who may be a danger to other people.
3 years of MA training and he can not control his rage is a real problem.
Having said that I have been guilty of uncontrolled rage.
My father would not help me. I was broke. Working midnight to 8 in a window making factor and going to college during the day.
I took care of my 3 kids in the afternoon while my wife work, I would get maybe 2 hours of sleep a day.
I would go to TKD class on Saturdays.
I was not being a good student, I would roll my eyes when the 1st Dan who taught the class said something I did not agree with.
I made him look stupid when he tried his technique on me. I turn around and he kicked me hard in the butt.
I turn around and side kick him as hard as I could in the chin. He collapse and did not move. I thought oh my God I have killed him.
I now felt only fear and shame, after maybe 10 seconds he started to move. After I knew he was all right I quit MA and did not start back until now.
During training (and life) I have found it to be VERY beneficial to approach conflicts with gratitude. I have learned that if you treat bullying and emotionally upset person by escalating violence to win, it does not teach that person to not use violence, it teaches the opposite. It teaches that violence works and that they need to get more violent to win. I have found it more beneficial for my own growth to approach the situation with a gratitude attitude. This person allowing me to face some of my own fear and to feel my own aggression popping to the surface. The situation is allowing me to deal with my own emotions, restricting and reducing my own emotional hijacking. I am gaining very valuable practice on controlling myself, my emotions, and my reactions. The most difficult fight is within and the opportunity to practice that fight should be valued and treasured.
In the OP the post describes a 17 year who is having emotional issues. We don't know the students background. Has he been bullied, abused, is he fatherless? Does he have friends and peers? Is his idea of winning and violence influenced by violent media? Is he finding satisfaction (obviously, by the thread above) and recognition by his use of violence? Note, none of these can be cured mid roll by his training partner. Interestingly, the rolling itself might allow the 17 year old to address eventually these issues. So, what does that leave the person who is rolling with this kid? Beat the kid with more violence is certainly one option. Giving up and tapping out every few moments is another viable option. But, another option is to go to work internally on yourself. Deal with surviving without getting angry, try to not escalate, to not to retaliate, in fact - learn to smile and enjoy the training. Appreciate the honest partners even when that honesty is a bit frightening and unsolicited. At least he showers and washes his training gear LOL.
Good luck headhunter and enjoy your training trails and trials.
Regards
Brian King
In the OP the post describes a 17 year who is having emotional issues. We don't know the students background. Has he been bullied, abused, is he fatherless? Does he have friends and peers? Is his idea of winning and violence influenced by violent media? Is he finding satisfaction (obviously, by the thread above) and recognition by his use of violence? Note, none of these can be cured mid roll by his training partner. Interestingly, the rolling itself might allow the 17 year old to address eventually these issues. So, what does that leave the person who is rolling with this kid? Beat the kid with more violence is certainly one option. Giving up and tapping out every few moments is another viable option. But, another option is to go to work internally on yourself. Deal with surviving without getting angry, try to not escalate, to not to retaliate, in fact - learn to smile and enjoy the training. Appreciate the honest partners even when that honesty is a bit frightening and unsolicited. At least he showers and washes his training gear LOL.
Good luck headhunter and enjoy your training trails and trials.
Regards
Brian King
Headhunter
Senior Master
Oh yeah because making a kid cry is such a great thing to do and doing that would make me so tough and not a total douche. If that's how you act then that shows the kind of person you are. I'm not going to injure a kid for a stupid piece of fabric.
My issue is the kid hurting other people who can't defend themselves as I have stated before. Because you see I don't just think about myself and my own ego
Headhunter
Senior Master
That's because not everyone is a coach and have no desire to be. I'm not a coach I'm not going to hold this kids hand when he's acting like a punk
Headhunter
Senior Master
I'm not his coach or his daddy..(at least I hope not lol) so I'm not going to spend extra time working with a kid who's been violent towards me and others. That's up to the instructor and his parents
Yeah, that's disappointing. If the instructor is right, it's by luck, IMO. This could give the kid an ego boost, so he doesn't feel the need to prove himself. It could just as easily make him feel less secure, with more need to prove he deserves the rank. It could also lead him to think his past approach is better than others', and that's why he got the rank.
jobo
Grandmaster
it's reasonable psychology, to promote someone and say, now your " senior" you have responsibilities to help others improve rather than try and dominate them. I've seen any number of trouble makers be promoted in a work environment and change their behaviour completely, now they are " management"
which does admittedly have the side effect of making others who have been better behaved get quite cross, and wonder if being a trouble makers isn't actually a good strategy for careers progression ?
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I don't think it's reasonable psychology. It's not a predictable outcome that they'll respond as desired. I've seen examples of exactly the opposite reaction - they decide what they did was what got them promoted (and, actually, they're right - just not for the reason they think), so they do more of the same.
jobo
Grandmaster
it extremely predictable, there's only two outcomes, you cant get more predictable than that,anything you do must have at least two possible outcomes.
it's the application of behavioural science, it has a very good chance of being succesful, giving people more responsibility has a good chance of making them behave more responsibly if not your only in the same position as you started and need to do something else like amy other problem solving matrix
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Having two possible outcomes doesn't make it predictable. Being predictable, in this case, would mean you could predict (at significantly better than chance) which will occur in a given case. In a workplace, this can be tested with some probationary period, some temporary responsibility, etc. Extra responsibility can be used in a dojo without awarding rank, as well.
The issue is that if it doesn't work well, you're actually not in the same position as before. You have some folks who saw misbehavior result in early promotion. This has two fairly predictable results: it starts to reset the "norm" of the group (acceptance of behavior is shown to start shifting - in that direction - what others accept as "normal"), and it creates resentment and/or dissatisfaction among those who behaved. So, if it doesn't work, you're in a worse position than if you didn't do it. If it does work, you can still end up in a worse position than where you started, because of those two effects.
jobo
Grandmaster
no that's just you misusing words again, what you mean I assume is the probability ?? of one the the predicted outcomes occuring. and how exactly are you calculating that ! the application of behavioural science principals, would seem to give a fair chance of it succeeding, across a large population, it's impossible to assess the probability for any one person, with out at least knowing that individual to a good extent
You're funny.
Headhunter
Senior Master
Jobo starting an argument again? I zone out when I see his posts
