here is kata naihanchi shodan

[RRouuselot]

I do this kata and yes it is done correctly in the little picture

its fine for people who know what there looking at, for all the rest, its just an awesome GIF image.

I only do it the way i am taught...........the way my sensei was taught by Mr Oyata

I do Naihanchi shodan the way Oyota teaches it, i don't know what the shotokan version of this kata looks like. But what i do know is that i find it disrespectful when you question my Art and trying to be little me.
Now to address the GIF image. From what i can see from the image the kata looks like it is being done Traditionally to Mr. Oyata's art.

It’s not that I am trying to be little you…… but like most teenagers you open your mouth without knowing what you are talking about.

It might sound a bit rude but it is not meant to be…..Know this Sin…..I am a direct student under Mr. Oyata….I was a shodan under Mr. Oyata before you were even born, a member of Mr. Oyata’s Association for over ¼ century, I have judged tournaments in Mr. Oyata’s Assoc. as well as Japan for the JKF and seen ALL kinds of versions of this kata including the JKA/Shotokan version (which this is). Not mention I have practiced/taught this kata for over 25 years….so I think that pretty much qualifies me to tell you that it is NOT the version my teacher does.
If you came into my dojo and claimed you were a student of one of Mr. Oyata’s students and said this is the way Mr. Oyata teaches it, then performed it this way I would be all over you like white on rice with corrections.

 

[Marginal]

Sin did say in another post that his instructor never obtained a rank from his training, which might explain the difference here.

 

[Ippon Ken]

That GIF shows the Japanized version. The Okinawan versions teach a shorter and more upright stance (knees bent) and the older ryuha use the pigeon-toed Naihanchi stance. It's Shuri Te's Sanchin, and good instructors will strike your thighs and test for rootedness (shime). The upper body should be supple with liberal use of hip power. If you do the proper Naihanchi stance it trains one to use rising (or "spitting") power. If you do that wide drastic version you are using a horse-stance (jigotai dachi) that Funakoshi implemented for kid leg strength training. The applications of the modern version are limited.


Still it is easy to see how a TKD guy would recognize that form. If done the Shorin way you'd notice some similarities and quite a few differences. Oh yeah, the opening movements are very important. You can't leave those out. Try and learn the original way from a good Shorin, Isshin or even Okinawan Shito instructor. It will make even more sense if you do that.

Kata, kata, kata (done correctly) is the ki...

 

[ppko]

That GIF shows the Japanized version. The Okinawan versions teach a shorter and more upright stance (knees bent) and the older ryuha use the pigeon-toed Naihanchi stance. It's Shuri Te's Sanchin, and good instructors will strike your thighs and test for rootedness (shime). The upper body should be supple with liberal use of hip power. If you do the proper Naihanchi stance it trains one to use rising (or "spitting") power. If you do that wide drastic version you are using a horse-stance (jigotai dachi) that Funakoshi implemented for kid leg strength training. The applications of the modern version are limited.


Still it is easy to see how a TKD guy would recognize that form. If done the Shorin way you'd notice some similarities and quite a few differences. Oh yeah, the opening movements are very important. You can't leave those out. Try and learn the original way from a good Shorin, Isshin or even Okinawan Shito instructor. It will make even more sense if you do that.

Kata, kata, kata (done correctly) is the ki...

Terrific post thanks for all the information

 

[RRouuselot]

Sin did say in another post that his instructor never obtained a rank from his training, which might explain the difference here.

That would explain a lot.
It would explain why I have never heard of his teacher.........if the guy wasn't around long enough to get rank he wasn't around long enough to learn it correctly and be tested on it.

 

[RRouuselot]

Sin,


You need to take this off your profile: Livingstion Ryu-Te Academy
Here is why....The name RyuTe® has a trademark license on it and only certain people in Mr. Oyata’s Assoc. are legally allowed to use it. You are not one of them. If your instructor is also using it he will need to remove it from everything as well. This is friendly advice and I would take it if I were you. I guarantee if certain people in the Assoc. find someone using the RyuTe® trademark they will be asked first to remove it, if they do not remove it then things are handled in court. They do not screw around with this.

 

[Yossarian75]

I do this form in Tang Soo Do, our version is based on the Japanese one.

The applications of the modern version are limited.

Ive seen an Okinawan(cant remember which style) version of this form and it seemed to have some extra moves as well as higher stances. I wouldnt say the modern version is that limited, there are some great applications to be found. The applications I have learned for the this form are numerous as well as practical and down right nasty(take downs/chokes/neck breaks/vital point strikes)

 

[Chizikunbo]

Just thought that I would share that with everyone that doesn't do the kata

Thats more of the Shotokan Tekki Shodan Version

 

[Chizikunbo]

That would explain a lot.
It would explain why I have never heard of his teacher.........if the guy wasn't around long enough to get rank he wasn't around long enough to learn it correctly and be tested on it.

Dont you run a Ryu Ti (lol) dojo in Japan?

 

[RRouuselot]

Dont you run a Ryu Ti (lol) dojo in Japan?

Sorry, is that joke? I don't get it....


I am also looked at your profile.....do you train at one of the dojo on this website?

http://www.ryubeikan.org/Alliancedojos.html

If you do then you too will also need to take the mention of RyuTe® off your profile as well. Since the person running those dojo is not a membe of Mr. Oyata's Assoc.

 

[Sin]

My instructor made it up to Brown belt in Oyata's Assoc. then moving away to another state. My instructor has trained with Oyata and Dr. Shaw, and I belive that my sensei got permission to use the Ryu-Te in the tittle of his School from Oyata.

I do appresiate your knowledge and experince. And you do have an impressive resume in the arts. No doubt of that

The GIF image dose have suttle differences from the way I do Naihanchi shodan. But it is the closest GIF image I have seen on the web that even closly resembles the correct way to do the Kata

 

[RRouuselot]

My instructor made it up to Brown belt in Oyata's Assoc. then moving away to another state. My instructor has trained with Oyata and Dr. Shaw, and I belive that my sensei got permission to use the Ryu-Te in the tittle of his School from Oyata.

No he did not. So you and your instructor need to stop using the name RyuTe®.

 

[RRouuselot]

Found it!
I had to dig through copius amounts of junk on my PC but I found the URL that shows both the "old" and "new" (read JKA) versions of Shotokan kata.
Check the old Naihanchi kata (Tekki Shodan) and you can see how close it is to the GIF posted on this thread.


http://www.shotokan-arts.com/katavid.htm

 

[ppko]

Found it!
I had to dig through copius amounts of junk on my PC but I found the URL that shows both the "old" and "new" (read JKA) versions of Shotokan kata.
Check the old Naihanchi kata (Tekki Shodan) and you can see how close it is to the GIF posted on this thread.


http://www.shotokan-arts.com/katavid.htm

Great site for katas thank you

 

[RRouuselot]

It's interesting to see the changes from the Funakoshi versions to the JKA versions

 

[ppko]

I agree

 

[Mark Lynn]

That would explain a lot.
It would explain why I have never heard of his teacher.........if the guy wasn't around long enough to get rank he wasn't around long enough to learn it correctly and be tested on it.

RRouuselot

I read somewhere in an old "Dojo" magazine article that Sensei Oyata taught the Nahanchi kata for three years at his school. If this were the case than I imagine the students/instructors knew/know the kata well.

I only saw Sensei Oyata one time at a seminar, he was awesome, and he opened my eyes on a different way of applying techniques. Did he have different versions of the same kata, or rather teach different versions. Maybe what I'm asking is did he teach different timings in the kata.

I learned the kata in Americanized versions of TKD and Wado (different forms similar structure) and was shown many different bunkai (again similar form but different structure) from an Isshinryu instructor. This was one of my favorite forms when I was studying TKD/karate.

With respect
Mark

 

[RRouuselot]

RRouuselot

I learned the kata in Americanized versions of TKD and Wado (different forms similar structure) and was shown many different bunkai (again similar form but different structure) from an Isshinryu instructor. This was one of my favorite forms when I was studying TKD/karate.

With respect
Mark

I hope this doesn’t sound like a plug for my teacher because it’s not. I am merely relaying some facts that I have observed over the last 20+ years.
What I find interesting is before Mr. Oyata started demonstrating bunkai= tuite, atemi, kyusho etc. you never heard of it in the west. Then after a few years of Mr. Oyata giving seminars on these things almost EVERYBODY started using those words and concepts in their teaching like that is all they had ever done in the past……which they hadn’t.
More than a few folks saw it as a good “marketing tool” to separate themselves from other Kur-ra-dee schools in the Yellow pages.
Some of the words like kyusho for example have been so over exposed, misinterpreted and taught by unskilled instructors that they have been devalued as a viable skill.
Anymore I don’t mention I teach tuite and so on…..in training I use the techniques but don’t actually use the name tuite, kyusho, etc and if someone asks “what the hell did you just do to me?” …..I just say “Karate” and keep working out.
I have looked through old MA magazines like Black Belt and so on that were printed before Mr. Oyata started doing public demonstrations and seminars and never found any reference to the above mentioned words and concepts, now I can’t even pick up a MA magazine they aren’t in.
I have been to MANY dojo in Japan, seen literally over 100 styles from all the legit styles like Shotokan, Wado, etc…all they way down to the “just made it up over the weekend” Hoo Flung Pu types and they don’t teach bunkai= tuite, atemi, kyusho…..They teach kata for looks and their so called bunkai is tournament point sparring techniques.
Hell, I have yet to see a Japanese karate dojo that teaches there even IS such a thing as grappling contained within kata. I spent the first 5 or 6 years in Japan looking for a dojo that taught something even remotely similar to what I was taught by Mr. Oyata…..nothing was even close.
They all think it’s “kicky-punchy” and that’s it.
Nakayama of Shotokan/JKA was asked whether he had heard of grappling techniques found in kata and his reply was “I have heard there might be such a thing but I don’t know it”
The word tuite was actually coined by Mr. Oyata. He simply used a combination of Okinawan and Japanese words. Tui=Okinawan and Te=Japanese. Now I see it/hear it used by most western dojo.
Funny how stuff gets around…….

 

[Zepp]

Just thought that I would share that with everyone that doesn't do the kata

Nice find. We call that form Chul gi 1. It'd be even cooler if the GIF showed the first couple of steps, but I suppose that's pretty hard to draw.

 

[ppko]

Nice find. We call that form Chul gi 1. It'd be even cooler if the GIF showed the first couple of steps, but I suppose that's pretty hard to draw.

Well this is just a different version of this kata there are many, as I am pretty sure that the TKD version is different than ours, have you done much break down off of this kata there are endless possibilitys