Hard Times.

[Brian R. VanCise]

Interesting read on one individuals take on where we are going.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27244465

 

[MJS]

Well, IMO, its not a bad idea to make some changes. Cutting back on certain things, trying to save more, etc., will most likely be helpful. On the other hand, it seems like some people may be over reacting. I mean, look at what happens when the weather guy predicts a huge storm. Try going to the store and what do you see? Bare shelves and a mob scene. People act as if its the end of the world...it isn't, its a snow storm, and nothing that should be a surprise, especially if you live in a state that is known for snow.

Its unfortunate, because now that so many are conserving, places of business are closing shop.

People still need to live, and people will most likely still go on vacations. Perhaps not as much as in times past, but people will still go. A guy I work with is going on a cruise next month. Obviously the economy isn't stopping him.

 

[shesulsa]

It's quite amazing just how far some folks are taking it. Huge stockpiles of nonperishables and Ensure. Walk-in safes filled with firearms and ammo. Some folks around here are ripping out landscaping and planting gardens.

 

[terryl965]

People are getting prepared for the worst. I believe they maybe right.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Y2K ring a bell

 

[terryl965]

Y2K ring a bell

Was that not Bang your Head or Hells Bell.

 

[elder999]

It's quite amazing just how far some folks are taking it. Huge stockpiles of nonperishables and Ensure. Walk-in safes filled with firearms and ammo. Some folks around here are ripping out landscaping and planting gardens.

I dunno....some people call that "preparing for TEOTWAWKI." I just call it life. :lfao:

As seen in this post.

Except to hell with Ensure.....:barf:

 

[Nolerama]

I think that we all need to start thinking about making a lifestyle change in light of this economic crisis. Americans, especially, are very defiant when it comes to a lack in resources; we've always had what we needed, at any time we wanted...

We are a culture of Instant Gratification.

However, Instant Gratification might become a little more expensive; or prohibitively so. Americans will fight to the bitter end to maintain that comfort level. When gas prices hit $20/gallon, there will still be lines waiting to get fuel because there's a ton of stubborn people out there. Gratification will not be so Instant.

In terms of survivalism, I think think everyone needs to keep that in mind. In many other countries, families stockpile food in the event of a natural disaster/war/famine/etc. It's just common sense, not paranoia.

Personally, I think a major shift will take place in the way all Americans live their lives. There are people in my neighborhood getting rid of their lawns and planting gardens. Food co-ops stockpiling cheaper, perishable goods for their families. Gun clubs stockpiling on ammo (to use as barter). The list goes on and on.

There will come a day when our economic institutions, like all institutions before, will fail, and we will need something to trade. But above else, get over our ego as a nation, and live at our means.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Harder times coming? Very possible

Reason to rip out the gardenias, plant corn, fortify the ranch, stock the kitchen floor to ceiling with freeze dried food and turn the living room into a gun locker… I don’t think so

When Y2K was the big scare people literally moved to the middle of the woods and built houses and stoked it with food and guns because the end of civilization was near and there would be fighting in the streets. On January 01, 2000 they found that they were stuck with this house In the middle of nowhere, deep in debt from their weapons, food and water build up and unable to sell the house… because it was in the middle of nowhere.

After 9/11 same thing.

Now this.

I do however believe this should get people to sit up and take notice and maybe make a few life style changes, be a bit less wasteful, drive a little less, get rid of the Humvee (if you really do not need it – driving the kids to school in Westchester county is not a justification).

And it likely will. But I have do little faith in people that when this is all over and things are back to semi-normal that I fully believe the gloves come off and they go back to being just as wasteful or more wasteful then they were before this all happened. It will just be that some will have an awful lot of weaponry to sell and need a landscaper to fix the flower garden.

Was that not Bang your Head or Hells Bell.

In this case "Highway to Hell"

 

[CoryKS]

Y2K ring a bell

I wish. Y2K was good to me; made a good bit of extra money converting old COBOL programs to that newfangled 4-digit year format. I don't know how to work this crisis though. Maybe I could sell these guys some magic beans?

 

[Flying Crane]

In terms of survivalism, I think think everyone needs to keep that in mind. In many other countries, families stockpile food in the event of a natural disaster/war/famine/etc. It's just common sense, not paranoia.

There is certainly truth in that. Many of us in the Western, Developed countries have become very accustomed to a lifestyle that does not demand this. It's really not a bad idea to keep in mind all the time.

I live in San Francisco, and I could get hit by a big earthquake that could disrupt supply access and aid for a number of days. For that reason alone, it's a good idea to keep a supply of water, food, and basic medical supplies onhand. You never know when you might need it, regardless of the apocalypse.

 

[MA-Caver]

Being prepared for the worse isn't paranoia or extremism IMO, it's common sense. Having a stock pile of food that'll last you and your family for a year or two is not a bad idea really. Think about it. You lose your job at least you can still feed the family and take what money you got and use that to continue your mortgage payments until you find another job and get the bacon rolling in again. Better than being a couple payments behind (and HOPING that your banker will be understanding and float the payments til you catch up... NOT!) and your credit history that you worked and slaved over is now fubared. Common sense if anything else prevails I think.
A lot of LDS (read: Mormons) I know do this food storage for just in case... and I've seen it work when Dad lost his job but at least food was on the table every night at dinner time. Oh sure it wasn't the NICE dinners that they usually have but hey, the kids didn't go to bed hungry. They have money in their savings for just such an emergency as well.

Consider also the ramifications of another great depression... if it ever happens. Bartering will most likely become the type of exchange for goods and services. Having extra stock of foodstuffs and other items gives you that just bit more leverage.

The boy scout motto isn't a bad one at that.
Being prepared isn't paranoia I think. Just common sense.
Hoarding is another matter... that's getting as much as you can lay your hands on and the hell with everyone else kinda attitude. Over stock piling, having a huge cache of weapons and ammo (better run like hell if your house ever catches on fire) is a bit much I'll agree. That's extremism IMO.
Have enough to protect and provide for your family for at least two years should be enough.
If there is going to be a ELE or a TEOTWAWKI what do you honestly give yourself as far as chances of survival in the first place.
How ironic it would be that you'd be stuck in rush-hour traffic 10-15 miles from home when a cataclysmic event happens.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I wish. Y2K was good to me; made a good bit of extra money converting old COBOL programs to that newfangled 4-digit year format. I don't know how to work this crisis though. Maybe I could sell these guys some magic beans?

Sell them old COBOL programs that say "Don't Panic"

 

[MJS]

Harder times coming? Very possible

Reason to rip out the gardenias, plant corn, fortify the ranch, stock the kitchen floor to ceiling with freeze dried food and turn the living room into a gun locker… I don’t think so

When Y2K was the big scare people literally moved to the middle of the woods and built houses and stoked it with food and guns because the end of civilization was near and there would be fighting in the streets. On January 01, 2000 they found that they were stuck with this house In the middle of nowhere, deep in debt from their weapons, food and water build up and unable to sell the house… because it was in the middle of nowhere.

After 9/11 same thing.

Now this.

Sometimes, I really have to wonder if certain things are not just hyped up to make people paranoid. Now, I'm not saying to be so relaxed and not take anything serious, but think about it. You mentioned Y2K. If we stop and think about it, people made it sound as if that was D-Day or something, and in reality, things just flowed with little to no issues at all, yet there were probably millions people who were scared out of their mind. 9/11...people were scared out of their wits to fly.

If we think about it, bad things can happen any time. Car accidents happen every day, some more serious than others, yet people still drive. If people get so paranoid over everything, nobody will ever leave their house, and we'll see this stockpiling of food, weapons, etc.

I do however believe this should get people to sit up and take notice and maybe make a few life style changes, be a bit less wasteful, drive a little less, get rid of the Humvee (if you really do not need it – driving the kids to school in Westchester county is not a justification).

Agreed. I'm fine with making some changes. But, I don't think that we need to be as drastic as some are taking it.

 

[Sukerkin]

Y2K ring a bell

Just to clarify a little recent history.

Whilst there was a lot of media hysteria over the issue and a lot of over-reaction from some quarters, the reason why the 'digital time bomb' didn't blow up was because a lot of people like me worked hard to make sure it couldn't.

I also gave up my Christmas/New Year holidays that year to babysit our systems just in case we'd missed something. We hadn't and the Grid kept on generating and distributing electricity as the internal clocks of thousands of pieces of IT kit merrily adapted themselves to four digits.

Meantime, some of the 'reference' systems we kept running for interests sake, began demonstrating errors as elements of the software began passing time-coded data that failed validation etc. Self re-booting CCU's that default to 1971 at bios level doesn't do anything of significance on our shop-floor. Those same CCU's across the country, all rebooting at the same time, would have crashed the control system of every substation we're at, bringing the Grid down with them.

Now I know that Xue only used it as an example of non-rational response to a problem but it really irks me that Y2K has come to be used as an example "of the sky is falling" hysteria when in fact good planning and the expenditure of resources stopped a very real scenario from ever exhibiting.

 

[Makalakumu]

Just to clarify a little recent history.

Whilst there was a lot of media hysteria over the issue and a lot of over-reaction from some quarters, the reason why the 'digital time bomb' didn't blow up was because a lot of people like me worked hard to make sure it couldn't.

I also gave up my Christmas/New Year holidays that year to babysit our systems just in case we'd missed something. We hadn't and the Grid kept on generating and distributing electricity as the internal clocks of thousands of pieces of IT kit merrily adapted themselves to four digits.

Meantime, some of the 'reference' systems we kept running for interests sake, began demonstrating errors as elements of the software began passing time-coded data that failed validation etc. Self re-booting CCU's that default to 1971 at bios level doesn't do anything of significance on our shop-floor. Those same CCU's across the country, all rebooting at the same time, would have crashed the control system of every substation we're at, bringing the Grid down with them.

Now I know that Xue only used it as an example of non-rational response to a problem but it really irks me that Y2K has come to be used as an example "of the sky is falling" hysteria when in fact good planning and the expenditure of resources stopped a very real scenario from ever exhibiting.

I can see how that would be annoying, but I see a lot of irony in that. People start yelling about how this or that will cause a crisis and then others get motivated and fix it so it doesn't happen. Then other people point fingers start asking why everyone was so worried in the first place. That smug self satisfied attitude really is ignorant.

 

[Sukerkin]

Aye, we saw that very thing over here when everything didn't go "kaboom!" .

Sadly, the problem being brought on by the fiscal balloon bursting has not only taken everyone by 'surprise' (even tho' it's been known to be on the cards for years) but that very lack of preperation means that it is something requiring steps to be taken to avoid the worst of the effects.

Another 'sadly' is that some of those steps people will take as individuals will actually make the problem worse in the short term, causing economic slowdown and even contraction.

The third 'sadly' is that it will not lead to the thing the planet as a whole needs us most to do viz stop organising our societies around the impossible tenet of ever growing consumption.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Now I know that Xue only used it as an example of non-rational response to a problem but it really irks me that Y2K has come to be used as an example "of the sky is falling" hysteria when in fact good planning and the expenditure of resources stopped a very real scenario from ever exhibiting.

From the PC, network, computer world I now live and work in I agree as it applies to PC, network, computer. But it was not all about computers, they were the catalyst, but people were taking this to the "END IS NYE" kind of thing.

From the state security POV I had at the time the majority of the hysteria was not based on rational thought or reality of the PC and the planet.

A guy sells his house and moves to the middle of the desert because he is convinced that there will be riots in the streets and terrorist attacks is not really rational based on what was KNOWN at the time as to the possibilities of there actually being a problem. I had to work OT New Years Eve because the people in charge were afraid of a melt down of sorts and the local PD had the Swat team out, not because they were afraid of a terrorist attack but because they were concerned about someone in the general public going off and using Y2K to do something incredibly stupid and possibly rather violent.

I got so sick of the whole thing at the time after I went through the Chinese year, Arabic year and the Geological age of the earth to try and stop people from worrying I changed to "You are exactly right, on December 31, 1999 at 11:59:59 all will be fine but at 12:00:01 on January 01, 2000 the entire mess will blink out of existence.

This is why I used that as an example.

I can see how that would be annoying, but I see a lot of irony in that. People start yelling about how this or that will cause a crisis and then others get motivated and fix it so it doesn't happen. Then other people point fingers start asking why everyone was so worried in the first place. That smug self satisfied attitude really is ignorant.

Nothing smug about anything I posted, actually it is my general disgust for people and their never ending ability to over react to everything, look for someone else to blame, because it certainly is not THIER fault, complain to teh wrong people, fix nothing and when it is all done forget it ever happened and return to the same exact way of thinking they had that got them into this whole mess in the first place. And then when it happens again they start the whole process all over again.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I'm sharpening my blades, filling my pantry with canned goods and some long-store basics, and shoving a 6pack of gallon water in there.

I do that every year, in case we get snowed in, or there's a winter interuption in the water lines.

This year I'm socking some cash away too. Bout all I'm doing while panic creeps around.

 

[MJS]

Something else I thought about while I was reading this thread. I'd bet we'll see a rise in theft and robbery. If people are going to stockpile items, I'm sure those that are srtuggling financially, may resort to a) breaking into cars, locked or unlocked in an effort to grab items that could be of value to pawn for cash, b) the holidays are rapidly approaching, so purse snatching may be on the rise, and c) bank robberies. If someone is desperate enough, they could be driven to do anything.