What's going on in France?

[Makalakumu]

I'm not so sure one can put the blame on socialism. I think the problem is deeper. All across Europe, you have a generation of immigrants that was brought in to rebuild after WWII. There was a lot of work to do...heck, the entire continent looked the the aftermath of Katrina! After the work was finished though, all of these people were pushed aside. The European governments turned their backs on them.

Now, there lives resemble the lives of many mexican immigrants in the US. Poor jobs. Poor working conditions. Poor living conditions. Poorly educated. Poisoned. Hungery. Etc. Its only a matter of time before we see this here. All we need is for the population of underepresented and exploited people to reach a tipping point.

Socialism or Capitalism, if people are unhappy and treated poorly, they will make it known.

 

[Brother John]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9891709/

"The opposition Socialists said Villepin had not done enough to give hope to those people in areas hit by the unrest"

The opposition Socialists would attack the government no matter what, whether they were too aggressive or too indecisive. As I said before, it's better to be labelled indecisive. .

socialism prevents hope.


Your Bro.
John

 

[arnisador]

Now they have curfews and a state of emergency.

 

[mantis]

Explain to me, again, what mindless thugery and violence has to do with making a political statement. What does burning other poor people's homes and property prove other than they are nothing but criminals. The mentality displayed by these folks isn't that of thoughtful people making a statement, it is soccer hooligan mentality. They aren't burning to make anything better, they are doing it because they are enjoying the anonymous destruction. Your attempts to spin this as some sort of understandable act is nothing but a complete distortion of reality.

Now you're calling me a racist? lol. Here it comes....

As for your article, it doesn't do anything but illustrate the true failure of the lauded socialist systems throughout Europe. All those listed social programs...have FAILED?! Perhaps if they had been concentrating on economic development and jobs, instead of entitlement programs, the youth would be working gainfully instead of developing an entitlement mentality that says that if they don't get what they demand, they'll BURN THE CITIES!!!! Instead, all that youthful energy would be directed to actually working for a living. It's clear, if you can burn a building to the ground, surely you can work.

alright
why dont u go ahead and tell me what you would do...
tell me how they should gain their civil rights back
btw, the police is the one who triggered violence by throwing a gas bomb inside of a small mosque...
those young men are protesting because they NEED A JOB... why dont u do ur hw and read the news man.. they are the ones asking to be productive, but the government locks them in ghettoes, starves them, and then burn them!
not only that, just like american ghettoes, they starve them, then somehow drugs become accessible, and you find a liquor store at each corner in their alleys so a person, like yourself, considers them gangsters, savages, and THUGS for the rest of their lives.
ur american man, u of all people should understand a battle for freedom.... and for civil rights.. unless u sympathize with KKK or something
americans are bombing countries in the name of freedom, and now u curse people who seek it?

 

[bushi jon]

The problem is people are making excuses for bad behavior. Most of the people that are causing the trouble are young immigrants that came to France for a better life through hand outs then when they realised the land of milk and honey did not appear before there feet they became bitter.It is my understanding(as wrong as it may be)that the french made it real hard to attract employers(high taxes,35 hour work week, long paid lunches) and when you do that the imigrant will always be on the losing side for the better paying jobs. The French Govt needs to rethink the way they run there country. I would like to remind people the single worst thing we did here in the states was to create welfare programs because we created a sub class of people that expect the govt to give them hand outs

 

[mantis]

The problem is people are making excuses for bad behavior. Most of the people that are causing the trouble are young immigrants that came to France for a better life through hand outs then when they realised the land of milk and honey did not appear before there feet they became bitter.It is my understanding(as wrong as it may be)that the french made it real hard to attract employers(high taxes,35 hour work week, long paid lunches) and when you do that the imigrant will always be on the losing side for the better paying jobs. The French Govt needs to rethink the way they run there country. I would like to remind people the single worst thing we did here in the states was to create welfare programs because we created a sub class of people that expect the govt to give them hand outs

good argument
but just so ur clear on something
Here in the US if ur chinese born in the US ur automatically american, and if you gain the citizenship then ur american (except when are told to go back where u came from)
but in france if you are born in france, or great great grand father is born in france, or if you just immigrated, or you immigrated 40 years ago and gained ur citizenship you are still called "immigrant". Immigrant in french gov't's terms doesnt necessarily mean youre not a citizen.
nevertheless ur never treated as a "french" person, i.e. white, frankofon, and catholic

 

[Brother John]

The problem is people are making excuses for bad behavior.

I would like to remind people the single worst thing we did here in the states was to create welfare programs because we created a sub class of people that expect the govt to give them hand outs

EXCELLENT BRILLIANT POINTS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your Brother
John

 

[Makalakumu]

I would like to remind everyone that most of us wouldn't be as healthy, educated, or as wealthy without many of these so called government handouts.

 

[Brother John]

I would like to remind everyone that most of us wouldn't be as healthy, educated, or as wealthy without many of these so called government handouts.

This'd be the point where we just have a differnce of opinion...
I don't think that the 'handouts' haven't done anything very positive.

still got lots O' respect for you though...

Your Brother
John

 

[qizmoduis]

I would like to remind people the single worst thing we did here in the states was to create welfare programs because we created a sub class of people that expect the govt to give them hand outs

Completely and utterly irrelevant to the topic. Please move on to the next conservative talking point.

 

[Flatlander]

There are civilized ways of expressing opinion. There are peaceful ways to protest. There are respectable ways of having your voice heard.

There is a significant difference between organized movements and destructive, random behaviour. I should think that the goal would be to gain understanding and empathy, not inflame hatred and encourage disrespect.

Quite obviously, this is the expression of short sighted, frustrated, and uncoordinated youth. These appeals are sometimes heard, but rarely understood. I have no issue with the message - most reasonable people would empathize with the message. Unfortunately, that message is undermined by the inappropriate delivery, and that is but a further exacerbation of an already difficult problem.

Finger pointing and anger fix nothing.

 

[Brother John]

Completely and utterly irrelevant to the topic. Please move on to the next conservative talking point.

I think it's 'related'...but true, he's indicating America in this...and the thread is on France.
Your Brother
John

PS: Even IF something was a 'conservative talking point', doesn't mean it's wrong. Infact, might mean it Should be talked about.

 

[Brother John]

There are civilized ways of expressing opinion. There are peaceful ways to protest. There are respectable ways of having your voice heard.

There is a significant difference between organized movements and destructive, random behaviour. I should think that the goal would be to gain understanding and empathy, not inflame hatred and encourage disrespect.

Agreed!
Their actions aren't about getting a message out, but about releasing anger.

Your Brother
John

 

[Xequat]

So with over a thousand cars on fire, I think that's the best use for a Renault I've seen in years.

 

[bushi jon]

Maybe I should have said this. France is burning because of their creation of a sub class of people. If France would not handed out so many freebees they would not have so many restless people on the dole. France started cutting back its welfare system(for lack of better terms) a few years back which created hard feelings toward the Gvt and the people that do with out hand outs. Leaving me to make this statement unregulated imigration and substandard ways of living create bitterness. It happens here it is happening there thus we have people acting badly and a whole group of people making excuses for them!!!!! I am a cncerv but i am also a believer in the truth.

 

[Brother John]

I am a cncerv but i am also a believer in the truth.

cncerv jon??????????
what's dat?


Your Brother
John

 

[bushi jon]

A typo concervative

 

[Makalakumu]

I'm not sure that social programs really are the root of this problem in France. And I think it is high time we defined exactly what a social program is...

...any program/instituion the government pays for...

Since I can't speak for people in France, I'll speak for myself, I've benefitted greatly from social programs.

1. The military, police, FD, and EMS have kept me safe. They've even had to patch me up a time or two.
2. When my father became ill, the government helped my mother get enough food for us to eat.
3. It also provided us with health insurance until my mother could get it on her own.
4. I recieved a "free" education up until high school.
5. I recieved no interest and low interest loans to go to college.

All of these are "handouts" yet I can honestly say that without one of these, I probably wouldn't be where I am today. None of these are totally responsible for my success. I really had to work too.

My point is this...social programs don't make sub-classes. People do. Social programs raise people up and I am an example (and I think if you take a look at the poverty statistics in this country one would find that I am not alone).

The bottom line is that Frances problem isn't social programs. It's problem is the neglect of its citizens. Its problem is inequity. Its problem is not unique to France. Look no further then the shanty towns next to the fields that grow your strawberries...and then you'll see France.

 

[andy]

France and it's open border policy toward the muslim youth? is related to the american open border policy? Is that what you imply Upnoth? I ask not as an inflammatory remark I am genuinly curious.:idunno:

 

[arnisador]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051109...s5l8Rus0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b3JuZGZhBHNlYwM3MjE-

France's storm of rioting eased Wednesday, with car burnings falling nearly by half, police said. But looters and vandals defied a state of emergency with attacks on superstores, a newspaper warehouse and a subway station

So, better but still not over.