America and the Olympics

Taimishu

Blue Belt
The following article is from MSNBC.
Your comments please, do you agree, dissagree, or think that the athletes should stop winging and get on with it?

I have my views and am interested in what you think.

This is a long article so i've only posted the URL.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5716924/

David
 
Taimishu said:
The following article is from MSNBC.
Your comments please, do you agree, dissagree, or think that the athletes should stop winging and get on with it?

I have my views and am interested in what you think.

This is a long article so i've only posted the URL.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5716924/

David
David I think the tone of this article assumes a lot about how Americans think and behave. I don't feel the sense of entitlement that this article seems to portray Americans as having. I love watching all athletes compete and while there is a sense of national pride when an American wins an event, I have also been equally excited for athletes who come up on top and are not born in this country. Also, if an American wins something unfairly that is not a source of pride.

Ironically many top athletes train for their Olympic hopes in the United States. They are not shut out of the opportunity to train alongside of our athletes or have access to some of our coaching and facilities. When I see something unjust in any Olympics it is upsetting to me for any athlete, no matter where they were born or which country they represent. Most of that type of thing comes in the more subjective sports such as ice skating and gymnastics where there is no touch pad or finish line, but rather judges' scores. Sometimes it is obvious when there is prejudice, but all athletes go in knowing there may be some subjectivity. I suppose it's a part of the game, and it may or may not involve politics. Judges are human and subject to mistakes and corruption. However, sometimes it's too easy to blame the judges, but I do remember many years back there being admitted corruption in gymnastics judging so that type of thing may explain some of the whining I suppose.

As far as the swimming goes here. I think the Japanese swimmer knew he was doing/did an illegal kick. They showed the underwater camera footage and my son is nine years old was watching and he is a swimmer with a little over two years of formal training, and he said to me, "That was an illegal kick Mom! We are not allowed to dolphin kick in the breast stroke!" But here's the thing, we have judges who did not call it. Either they did not see it or they chose not to. In any sport we can never know for certain what the case may be, and we have to trust that most of the time the judges are doing their best to be fair. In the end it is what it is. In this case I think it's a shame, but I think since there is no rule to use cameras for tighter rulings it has to stand.

As far as making excuses, all athletes have good and bad days. Sometimes you are in the zone and other times things go wrong. There is nothing wrong in stating why you think you failed, but also recognize that while you were having a bad day someone else was in the zone....give credit where credit is due. I think most athletes do that. Watch the post game interviews of any professional sports in this country and you see the players or head coach giving explanations for why the team lost, and it usually includes compliments of the play of the other team. In the Olympics I remember only once seeing a pair of ice skaters protest a score by not accepting their medals. They weren't Americans. They may have been justified, but it was a shame and perhaps a hollow win for the other medalists. Ultimately athletes train most of their lives for this one day - matter of minutes. It is best if they can lose graciously, but understandable when sometimes they don't American or not.
 
Ouch. Personally, I'm sorry to say that I agreed with the article. I can't even watch the coverage any more, because the, "We're Number One!!!" jingoism has gotten so thick--way thicker than it was back in the early 1960s.

Part of the problem is the utter commercialism of the Olympics. Part of the prob is what appears to be the IOC's considerable corruption. Part of the problem lies in nonsense like putting Jordan et al on our, 'amateur," b-ball team.

Hell, they won't even SHOW the events where the US isn't likely to win on the networks--no martial arts, no wrestling, no fencing, etc. But boy, do we ever get every last swimming and gymnastics yawner. I suspect that other countries are just as bad--but I do note that a lot of foreign athletes say things such as, "I'm just glad to compete in the Olympics," consistently.

And what happened to the whole ideal of sportsmanship, as if I didn't know? One, 'dolphin kick,' and it's cheating, but when our track guys get caught doping, the test wasn't fair.

I agree with the writer; the Japanese swimmer--a world record holder in the event--just plain won. The South Africans just plain won. Sheesh, show a little class.
 
rmcrobertson said:
And what happened to the whole ideal of sportsmanship, as if I didn't know? One, 'dolphin kick,' and it's cheating, but when our track guys get caught doping, the test wasn't fair.
I agree it works both ways, but yes one dolphin kick and it is cheating. In US competition six year old kids are disqualified for doing improper kicks. I've witnessed it, and usually the kids end up crying after being DQd. By nine years old they know how to do a proper kick and it usually happens a lot less often. It's a fact not an opinion that a dolphin kick is not allowed in a breast stroke race. You don't become an Olympic swimmer without knowing how to do a legal kick. However it is what it is and the judge choose not to call it for whatever reason. I didn't see the silver medalist using it as an excuse however. After the race he said it was a source of motivation for his upcoming event. I think he showed great sportsmanship.
 
Well, presuming that the dolphin kick was used and was illegal (I don't watch the Olympics at all, so I wouldn't know), I think that the American athlete(s) would be perfectly justified in calling it. After all that training and finally making the Olympics, I'd be pretty pissed if some other competitor cheated me out of my chance at the gold. I didn't know that sportsmanship included not minding other people cheating.
 
RandomPhantom700 said:
Well, presuming that the dolphin kick was used and was illegal (I don't watch the Olympics at all, so I wouldn't know), I think that the American athlete(s) would be perfectly justified in calling it. After all that training and finally making the Olympics, I'd be pretty pissed if some other competitor cheated me out of my chance at the gold. I didn't know that sportsmanship included not minding other people cheating.
Well they showed it on the footage of the underwater cam and coming off the wall coming out of his flip turn he clearly did a dolphin kick which is much faster than a legal breast stroke kick. In a sport where hundredths of seconds can separate medalists it is significant. However, a good sport is someone who takes defeat without complaint, and as far as I know in the sport of swimming they do not use camera playback to make rulings. If a judge didn't call it or perhaps didn't see it, there's no recourse. So my point is that during his post race interview he didn't look for or make excuses for his loss. That is good sportsmanship. Do I think he has a right to be privately pissed? ...yes! Was he a good sport about it all publicly? ...YES!
 
So, what do you think about the big deal being made about the Iranian Judo player being ordered to not match the Isreali?

As an aside, I really wish they would show more of the TKD, Boxing, and Judo competition on TV. Does anyone know which channel this is on if they are following it?
 
upnorthkyosa said:
As an aside, I really wish they would show more of the TKD, Boxing, and Judo competition on TV. Does anyone know which channel this is on if they are following it?
A detailed schedule of NBC's coverage of the Olympics on NBC, CNBC, MSNBC, Bravo, and Telemundo is available at http://www.nbcolympics.com.

TKD isn't until later in the games. I've watched Boxing and Judo already, along with Fencing, Badminton, and Table Tennis. Contrary to Robert's earlier assertion, coverage *does* include sports where the States doesn't have a good shot at a medal.
 
yes...they cover them...but which night is judo on nbc...the major channel?

the night that an american(jimmy pedro) that has a good chance of winning competes...unfortunately...i agree with a lot of what this article had to say...if the japanese swimmer did something illegal...they have every right to be upset...but the entire tone that "we don't lose" is something i see all the time...there's noooo possible way anybody could just be better than us...noo...someone was sick...or injured, or our "minds werent' into it..."...you lose you lose...you win you win...just learn how to do both graciously...
 
bignick said:
yes...they cover them...but which night is judo on nbc...the major channel?
Please tell me no one is honestly complaining about this.

The last time I checked, NBC's Olympic coverage was about making money and selling commercials. American asses sit in American seats to watch Americans compete. Even if NBC showed nothing but the Olympics all day, every day, there wouldn't be enough time to cover American contenders *and* events that the US isn't competitive in on one network... the games are simply too big.

While it's really interesting to follow how Croatia is doing in Equestrian, NBC has to focus their resources where it makes the most sense. Frankly, I'm genuinely surprised at the breadth of their coverage across multiple networks (btw, I forgot about coverage on USA Network as well). It's a massive improvement over previous years.
 
PeachMonkey said:
Please tell me no one is honestly complaining about this.

The last time I checked, NBC's Olympic coverage was about making money and selling commercials. American asses sit in American seats to watch Americans compete. Even if NBC showed nothing but the Olympics all day, every day, there wouldn't be enough time to cover American contenders *and* events that the US isn't competitive in on one network... the games are simply too big.

While it's really interesting to follow how Croatia is doing in Equestrian, NBC has to focus their resources where it makes the most sense. Frankly, I'm genuinely surprised at the breadth of their coverage across multiple networks (btw, I forgot about coverage on USA Network as well). It's a massive improvement over previous years.
i agree that nbc is actually doing quite a bit...and are covering every sport...i'm sorry, that was just me throwing a tantrum cause i don't get bravo and that's the only place they're showing judo...
 
Ah. despite all the "bring the world together through sport," and the, "man's achievment," claptrap, it's capitalism.

Thought so; glad to have it clear.

Was pleased to see that the Aussie kicked the yankee's *** in the 200-meter medley.

Oh yes--and Oscar Robertson was on the radio today, explaing why the US men's basketball "team," sucks. Loved it.

me, I'm rooting for the smallest countries.
 
rmcrobertson said:
Ah. despite all the "bring the world together through sport," and the, "man's achievment," claptrap, it's capitalism.

Thought so; glad to have it clear.

Was pleased to see that the Aussie kicked the yankee's *** in the 200-meter medley.

Oh yes--and Oscar Robertson was on the radio today, explaing why the US men's basketball "team," sucks. Loved it.

me, I'm rooting for the smallest countries.
I think USA wasnt/or is not going to be the only hard done by country. Ive just finished watching the basketball, New Zealand vs China. the refereeing in that game sucked a big one. The NZ'ers were hard done by in that game, and only just lost. But we are out of the games now because the ref was not consistant in awarding fouls!!!! In regards to the swimmer who missed out on the gold medal because of a cheating Japanese guy well.................... that's gonna be another hard luck story to add to the rest of them. (I dont mean to sound so snotty, Im still upset over the basketball)) Maybe I should have posted this when I had calmed down a bit!!!!!!!

Im from a small country so we have to learn to make the most of what we have got. I think bigger countries like yourselves have had it your way for far too long and when you lose it really really really hurts.
 
I have to say it... sorry...

Who cares who wins? Why do we bother?

If the world can "come together" for somthing like this... why can't that be our focus?

The common ground we find in competition. I win, you win, we win, they win... doesnt matter. We all played nice in the sandbox! Shouldnt that be whats important at the end of the day, when we go home?
 
Technopunk said:
I have to say it... sorry...

Who cares who wins? Why do we bother?

If the world can "come together" for somthing like this... why can't that be our focus?

The common ground we find in competition. I win, you win, we win, they win... doesnt matter. We all played nice in the sandbox! Shouldnt that be whats important at the end of the day, when we go home?
Here here!!!!! Alot of people/countries I think have really lost sight as to what the Olympics are really all about!!!
 

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