Karl Rove - Valerie Plame - Joseph Wilson - Exposing a CIA covert operative

[Don Roley]

So, the source is good enough to accept Armitage as the original source, but not good enough to recognize elsewhere.

Surely you don't expect for me to fall for that old trick?

If someone lays out A B and C which are known facts, it does not mean that D is also true. But it is a trick used in cases like this.

Crushing has it right in saying that being the wife of a CIA operative does not discredit Wilson in any way. In fact, it would bolster his accusations if made known. So the idea that Valerie was outed to discredit Wilson is silly. The only reason you have left is vengence. And you have to be pretty much a part of the "hate Bush for any excuse" crowd to think that people would be willing to risk federal law and put together a conspiracy of several people (some of whom oppose the Iraq war) in only a few days between the article and Armitage's goof.

 

[michaeledward]

Surely you don't expect for me to fall for that old trick?

If someone lays out A B and C which are known facts, it does not mean that D is also true. But it is a trick used in cases like this.

Crushing has it right in saying that being the wife of a CIA operative does not discredit Wilson in any way. In fact, it would bolster his accusations if made known. So the idea that Valerie was outed to discredit Wilson is silly. The only reason you have left is vengence. And you have to be pretty much a part of the "hate Bush for any excuse" crowd to think that people would be willing to risk federal law and put together a conspiracy of several people (some of whom oppose the Iraq war) in only a few days between the article and Armitage's goof.

Karl Rove revealed Valerie Plame to Matthew Cooper, Robert Novak, and called her 'fair game' to Tim Russert.

Irving Libby revealed Valerie Plame to Judith Miller, and Matthew Cooper.

These are not in dispute. They are not theory. They are facts.

Oh, and Armitage only learned of Ms. Plame's identity because he saw a report prepared for, and at the request of Irving Libby and Vice President Cheney.


EDIT

This just in from the Press Release for HUBRIS

Rove even told MSNBC anchor Chris Matthews that the Wilsons "were trying to screw the White House so the White House was going to screw them back."

END EDIT

 

[Don Roley]

These are not in dispute. They are not theory. They are facts.

Oh please...... So the whole conspiracy theory is based on something that silly? And Wilson told the entire world his wife was a spy- shall we prosecute him as well?

I really can't see how a healthy mind can hold some of the contradictory thoughts you need to believe in to make this work at the same time.

On one hand you want people to believe that the white house wanted to expose Plame to discredit any information she may or may not have gotten as part of her work on Iraq. Yet you did not know that she was part of that task force until a few days ago!

So, how did the white house expect to discredit her task force when they didn't leak that she worked for it? But otherwise it would mean that you want us to think that in a few days they would slap together this whole conspiracy just to be vengeful- but place themselves in a lot of danger and open to legal trouble if found out like all conspiracies seem to be. The whole risk outweighs the rewards for something as petty as vengence.

And the whole idea that exposing his wife as a CIA agent would make it look like Wilson had bad sources and information is one of those things I just can't fathom anyone believing. It would be much more in their self interest to keep secret her CIA status.

And interesting read,

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Utilities/printer_preview.asp?idArticle=12648&R=EDE91B8D6

 

[michaeledward]

Oh please...... So the whole conspiracy theory is based on something that silly? And Wilson told the entire world his wife was a spy- shall we prosecute him as well?

I really can't see how a healthy mind can hold some of the contradictory thoughts you need to believe in to make this work at the same time.

On one hand you want people to believe that the white house wanted to expose Plame to discredit any information she may or may not have gotten as part of her work on Iraq. Yet you did not know that she was part of that task force until a few days ago!

So, how did the white house expect to discredit her task force when they didn't leak that she worked for it? But otherwise it would mean that you want us to think that in a few days they would slap together this whole conspiracy just to be vengeful- but place themselves in a lot of danger and open to legal trouble if found out like all conspiracies seem to be. The whole risk outweighs the rewards for something as petty as vengence.

And the whole idea that exposing his wife as a CIA agent would make it look like Wilson had bad sources and information is one of those things I just can't fathom anyone believing. It would be much more in their self interest to keep secret her CIA status.

And interesting read,

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Utilities/printer_preview.asp?idArticle=12648&R=EDE91B8D6

What Conspiracy Theory?

Karl Rove told Robert Novak
Karl Rove told Tim Russert
Karl Rove told Matthew Cooper
Karl Rove to Chris Matthews
Irving Libby told Judith Miller
Irving Libby told Matthew Cooper

Which of these are you disputing?

 

[Don Roley]

I can see that you did not read the article I linked to. Sigh....

 

[michaeledward]

I can see that you did not read the article I linked to. Sigh....

I got part way through it, up until the point where the author demonstrated he is not aware of the facts.

Of course, Fred Barnes has been a shill since the early days of the McLaughlin Group.

Mr. Barnes is intentially ignorant of this letter:

Dear Patrick:

At your request, I am writing to clarify that my December 30, 2003, delegation to you of "all the authority of the Attorney General with respect to the Department's investigation into the alleged unauthorized disclosure of a CIA employee's identity" is plenary and includes the authority to investigate and prosecute violations of any federal criminal laws related to the underlying alleged unauthorized disclosure, as well as federal crimes committed in the course of, and with intent to interfere with, your investigation, such as perjury, obstruction of justice, destruction of evidence, and intimidation of witnesses; to conduct appeals arising out of the matter being investigated and/or prosecuted; and to pursue administrative remedies and civil sanctions (such as civil contempt) that are within the Attorney General's authority to impose or pursue.

Further, my conferral on you of the title of "Special Counsel" in this matter should not be misunderstood to suggest that your position and authorities are defined and limited by 28 CFR Part 600.
Sincerely,
/s/ James B. Comey James B. Comey Acting Attorney General

This letter clarifies the scope of Special Prosecutor Fitzgeralds investigation.

 

[michaeledward]

Scooter Libby's trial started today.

Both the Prosecuting attorney and the Defense attorner are pointing some pretty big guns at the White House. The defense is telling us that Libby is a sacrificial lamb to protect Karl Rove. The prosecutor is telling us that Vice President Cheney was involved in directing Libby to leak information concerning Ms. Plame and destroying evidence of such direction prior to Mr. Libby's first appearance before the FBI.

 

[jazkiljok]

Scooter Libby's trial started today.

Both the Prosecuting attorney and the Defense attorner are pointing some pretty big guns at the White House. The defense is telling us that Libby is a sacrificial lamb to protect Karl Rove. The prosecutor is telling us that Vice President Cheney was involved in directing Libby to leak information concerning Ms. Plame and destroying evidence of such direction prior to Mr. Libby's first appearance before the FBI.

libby is steamed that the white house try to throw him under the press truck to protect rove. he's going to drag everyone in the mud to defend himself from jail time. the prosecution however is going to go after cheney's neck cause that's a neck that can now be sacrificed with bush's popularity in the gutter -- so it's bush's brain vs cheney's left temporal lobe.

get the popcorn out.opcorn:

 

[michaeledward]

From the evidence and testimony presented so far, Mr. Libby's trial does not appear to be going well for him. The government has presented some pretty credible witnesses that informed the court that they each had made Mr. Libby of Ms. Plames employ prior to it being publicly shared.

Although this thread was started and argued that the primary culprit in releasing information on a covert agent from the Central Intelligence Agency was the Special Assistant to the President, Karl Rove, it is becoming more clear that the prosecution is pointing the largest threat in the direction of the Vice President of the United States, Richard Cheney.

It may be that the events of this trial are taking place below the radar screen of the majority of Americans. When the verdict is announced, there may be an awakening in the public. Such an awakening may pose some awkward choices for the Republican Party and the President of the United States.

Perhaps the most compelling issue still unresolved, is whether the defense is going to present any witnesses. With the testimony received to date, it may be a very risky proposition to let the presumption of innocence be the deciding factor in the trial. Some possibly witnesses the defense may call include both Mr. Rove and Mr. Cheney. Even with a pre-agree to scope of questioning, having one, or both of these men under oath presents an opportunity to see the current administration 'face-to-face', as oppposed to 'through-a-glass'.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/03/AR2007020301344.html

 

[michaeledward]

For those not paying attention, another shoe may drop in a big way later this week.

The trial of Mr. Libby's perjury and obstruction of justice case is set for closing arguments tomorrow morning. The deliberations will quite probably be short.

Mr. Libby has repeatedly claimed that he learned about Ms. Plame from NBC News reporter Tim Russert in a conversation on July 10, 2003.

Several government officials and several reporters testified under oath that they were told by Mr. Libby that Ms. Plame worked for the CIA prior to Mr. Novak's article announced to the world that she was an 'operative'. Under oath, Mr. Russert informed the court that on July 10th, he was unaware of Ms. Plame's existance, and did not learn of it until Mr. Novak's column of July 13, 2003.

I expect that Mr. Libby is going to be found guilty.

From testimony in the trial, we have learned several facts that I think are relevent, even if they are not criminal.

Karl Rove did leak Valerie Plame's name to Robert Novak.
Ari Fleisher did leak Valerie Plame's name to two reporters.
Vice President Cheney was intimately involved with orchestrating the attack on Ambassador Wilson; directing specific responses for Mr. Libby to answer specific reporters' questions.

Everyone involved in the trial has been avoiding any mention of President Bush in any capacity. That has been interesting.

And one interesting point, is the Vice President was made aware that Mr. Libby was going to tell the FBI, and later the Special Prosecutor, that he learned about Ms. Plame from Tim Russert; a statement the Vice President knew to be false; but made no statement to suggest a different course of action.


A guilty verdict now. Perhaps more investigations to come. A pardon on January 19, 2009 - from the man who promised to restore Honor and Dignity to the White House.

 

[jazkiljok]

Everyone involved in the trial has been avoiding any mention of President Bush in any capacity. That has been interesting.

George W. i'm sure was out of the loop-- like most things.

When will you learn that Dick Cheney is the hand up the sock puppet president?

Dick is the guy behind the attacks on Wilson-- and that's why his name is everywhere in this trial.

and just like another infamous Dick, by tossing Libby to the courts, he first cut off one limb then... hey, does Dick have any other limbs to cut off?

 

[michaeledward]

Guilty !

Irving Lewis Libby was found Guilty on four of the five charges brought against him.

Expect an immediate appeal. Watch the for the deal making.

 

[Carol]

Guilty !

Irving Lewis Libby was found Guilty on four of the five charges brought against him.

Expect an immediate appeal. Watch the for the deal making.

I'll be danged...

 

[jazkiljok]

Guilty !

Irving Lewis Libby was found Guilty on four of the five charges brought against him.

Expect an immediate appeal. Watch the for the deal making.

yes... unless a pardon sits in the wings... then.. fuggehdaboutit.

 

[michaeledward]

yes... unless a pardon sits in the wings... then.. fuggehdaboutit.

A Pardon is an interesting possibility. Didn't the person with pardon power come to office promising to restore honor and dignity to the White House? How would a pardon square with that?

Of course, the real target may be a bit higher than Mr. Libby. The Vice President was very closely involved in all of the activities leading to this conviction.

The question is, does President Bush have that amount of loyalty toward Vice President "Last Throes", "Pretty Well Confirmed Atta met Iraqi intelligence in Prague" Cheney. Much of the President's legacy is being tarnished by the frustrated "success" in Iraq; an undertaking that could well be ascribed to the Vice President. There may be a bit of bitterness in the Oval Office toward the Vice President.

 

[jazkiljok]

A Pardon is an interesting possibility. Didn't the person with pardon power come to office promising to restore honor and dignity to the White House? How would a pardon square with that?

Of course, the real target may be a bit higher than Mr. Libby. The Vice President was very closely involved in all of the activities leading to this conviction.

The question is, does President Bush have that amount of loyalty toward Vice President "Last Throes", "Pretty Well Confirmed Atta met Iraqi intelligence in Prague" Cheney. Much of the President's legacy is being tarnished by the frustrated "success" in Iraq; an undertaking that could well be ascribed to the Vice President. There may be a bit of bitterness in the Oval Office toward the Vice President.

libby got thrown out the back door--- but his role in this is pathetic. scooter was scooting for cheney who scoots to his own tin drum. bush may be waiting for a timely blood clot to untangle from the Dickster or perhaps he will simply watch the geezer resign for health reasons...(not the same two thoughts:uhyeah: )

side note: have you notice the phenomenal lack of interest the public has in all of this?

 

[michaeledward]

side note: have you notice the phenomenal lack of interest the public has in all of this?

I think there is more interest in the public than one might anticipate. There is a dilemma about news coverage on this topic. How do people like Tim Russert and Matt Cooper cover this story? They are up to their eyeballs in the story. There is no way they can cover it honestly.

The one mention Russert made about his role in the story was made in the third person "Russert of NBC".

If the public isn't hearing about it in the news reports, how can we measure the interest? I think you should watch over the next few days, perhaps two weeks. This may unfold like, was it, the "Plumbers"?

 

[jazkiljok]

If the public isn't hearing about it in the news reports, how can we measure the interest? I think you should watch over the next few days, perhaps two weeks. This may unfold like, was it, the "Plumbers"?

plumbers. ah, the memories... the president escalates a war which the american people are against, scandal ensnares the VP, the judicial branch suffers "the saturday night massacre" .... or was that the morning paper i was reading?

 

[michaeledward]

Ms. Plame is, at this moment, testifying before the United States House of Representatives Oversight and Government Reform Committee.

The Chairman's opening statement, as authorized by the Central Intelligence Agency, should end the erroneous claim that Ms. Plame was not covert when her name and position was exposed.

Despite that, the ranking member of the minority party is beating that drum ... completely ignoring the guilty verdict in an Obstruction of Justice trial just a couple of weeks back.

 

[jdinca]

Outing her was in poor judgement, imo. Regardless, even if she was covert, the law as written was not violated.

Libby was a scapegoat and will be pardoned in due time as repayment. However, this type of issue is a political reality that infects the full range of the political/ideological spectrum.