Hard block and parrying.

[Johnathan Napalm]

Originally posted by MartialArtist
Emin Botzepe is a thug, no more, no less. Shame that all his talent goes to waste.

Anyway, it was more of a professional exhibition match, like pretty much a lot of matches such as a UFC match, or a bout. But Botzepe took it like a street fight. He even threatened the Gracies when the Gracies primarily focus on pro fighting, not street fighting. Yeah, some of the Gracies talk a lot, but how much Emin does... That's just unprofessional.

That was not even a fight at all. Botzepe challenged W Cheung. Since Botzepe was Cheung's junior and Cheung ignored his challenge, but told him he would have to wait till Cheung was done with a speech he was about to give. But Botzepe jumped him from the back. The 2 rolled around on the floor. A few punches from Boztepe. A few struggle by Cheung to get up. Everyone else was looking at the 2. No one interfered. LMAO. Then it was all over. A pretty sad fight if you ask me.

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

Originally posted by sweeper
well a straight blast is a series of straight punches, genneraly they aren't as commited as crosses but more so than jabs because your body tends to square off as you are using both arms equaly. Basicly it's like a wing chun chain punch.

I don't know exactly what the street barrage thing that you are tlaking about is, if it's all straight punches than it's probably like the JKD thing, if it is just a bunch of wiald punches it probably isn't.

Hooks or crosses.

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

Originally posted by Mike Clarke
I have video footage of William Chung taking a beating in Germany some years back. Is this the fight you guys are talking about?
He was teaching a class at the time and is challenged by a guy who walks up to him and starts hitting. They go to ground and Chung ends up under his attacker looking quite helpless within a few seconds.
Can't say I was impressed by his skill [?] at all.

Mike.

THat's the one.

Heck, that was no different from what you would see in the school yard fight.

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
Because, as we all know, classical blocking just doesn't work, right?

Keep on fooling yourself and considering mini-mall kah-rah-tay to be exemplary of classical training...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

Hardly what you have presumed. My position is shared by people who out ranked me and out experienced me (actually longer than I have lived).

If you can make classical blocking works for you, great. Keep blocking then .

But there are alternative techniques available.

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

BTW, have you heard of this fellow Jerry Beasley? He hangs with the Joe Lewis and Bill Wallace folk. May be I should ask Yilisifu this question as he was in the competition circuit when these folks were active back then.

 

[yilisifu]

I remember hearing about Jerry, although I never met him. Ah, those were the days........

Hill? What hill? I don't remember seeing any hill.........

 

[theletch1]

Jerry Beasely is a professor at Radford University in Radford Virginia and is the head of AIKIA. He runs a seminar each summer with quite a variety of different styles and disciplines represented. I live about 30 minutes north of Radford so I intend to attend the seminar this year. I'll let ya know how it goes. Here's the link to his site.

http://www.aikia.net/

 

[sweeper]

A straight blast is just one punch

Didn't know that, it was always described to me as at leaste two.

Parrying is good when your on the outside but it will keep you on the outside. Stepping in and blocking will get you to the inside.

I would agree with that for the most part, but parrying can also give you an oppening so you can come in on the offencive (or at least more so than blocking). And it deppends on what you want to do, like if I wanted to take someone down, I would just take a hit on the way in. but I would prefer to stay outside actualy

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

Oh c'mon! Straight blast is NOT just ONE punch! What he means is a barrage of ONE type of punch. Like chain punching you with straight punches. It is not a blind fury of mixed hooks and crosses or whatever.

 

[Mormegil]

Originally posted by muayThaiPerson
What do you mean?

Sorry for the long delay on the reply. I wasn't following the thread.

For the simultaenous parry and strike, I would emphasize the parry, and go for the "bonus" strike with the opposite hand as I slip.

So for example, if I'm in matched left leads with an opponent, and he throws a jab, I would slip forward and to the right (his outside), as I parry with my right hand against his outside forearm (just in case he tracks my slip). As I make this move, I also fire my lead jab under his jab. Hopefully, I will score on him. An alternative to the lead jab to his face, would be a finger jab towards the eyes (fanned out fingers - no good with gloves). Or if I didn't move in enough, or he has a longer reach, I might also "gunting" or punch his bicep. There's a nerve in there somewhere, and hitting it can mess up the arm for a few seconds to a couple of minutes (not exactly 100%). It usually takes a few seconds for this nerve shot to take effect. Once more, this doesn't work too well with gloves on. I've usually practiced it with slaps instead of fists, and it hurts enough like that. It takes some practice to aim it right. That's another reason for the right parry, to help guide the left nerve strike.



You could also hard block and strike at the same time. For example, a Wing Chun / Jun Fan technique, where you block a left hook (for example) with a right palm up block (tan sao) or palm down block (biu sao) while delivering a left punch. You can also do a boxing cover and punch.

 

[D.Cobb]

Originally posted by muayThaiPerson
If you watch MMA fights, you can see the fighters take the hits, thats why they dont move back as much as street fight

Are we talking about sports contests now?

Originally posted by muayThaiPerson
The speed people on the streets move at you is really fast.

And mostly controlled by adrenal dump. That's why when you watch security footage of street fights, most times they throw these wild hooking type punches that mostly miss, and they do this without taking a step. This is because adrenalin, causes your hips to lock up, and causes you to lose depth perception. That is uless, of course you have had the training required to deal with it.

Originally posted by muayThaiPerson
You cant just expect to hop back once and own it. If you moving back, you mine as well run away because he aint gonna stop. Without standing you ground, theres no chance you'll ever hit him.

To parry correctly you would need to move forward. Moving back whilst in contact range can be detrimental to your health. As for standing your ground, 1 word...
OUCH!!!

Man, you gotta move!!

Originally posted by muayThaiPerson
Parrying is good when your on the outside but it will keep you on the outside. Stepping in and blocking will get you to the inside.

Why the hell would you want to go to the inside?
If I'm in a fight I don't want to have to prove to this guy just how fit I am......
I want the fight finshed, so I go to the outside and check his movement with traps and checks, to make sure that I am doing the hitting, not recieving the hits. I can trap with one hand, and hit with the other.... whilst my legs are dancing a tattoo all up and down his leg.
If I go inside I will have to face all of his weapons, if I go outside, I am in control of his closest weapons, which means he can't use the other ones...
You do the math.......

Originally posted by muayThaiPerson
When i mentioned experience, I didnt mean competetions with rules. I meant bare fist attacks.

I have never fought in competitions...........
And I wasn't refering to school yard tostesterone(?) exhibitions.
I was talking about real fights with fists bottles knives and clubs. I have been there and done that.
I have won some and lost some, but yes I really do know what I'm talking about....

--Dave





:shrug:

 

[pittjunky]

It's a matter of personal prefrence and also the situation at the time. I prifer a swift perry and counter move myself.

 

[muayThaiPerson]

Originally posted by D.Cobb
Are we talking about sports contests now?



And mostly controlled by adrenal dump. That's why when you watch security footage of street fights, most times they throw these wild hooking type punches that mostly miss, and they do this without taking a step. This is because adrenalin, causes your hips to lock up, and causes you to lose depth perception. That is uless, of course you have had the training required to deal with it.



To parry correctly you would need to move forward. Moving back whilst in contact range can be detrimental to your health. As for standing your ground, 1 word...
OUCH!!!

Man, you gotta move!!



Why the hell would you want to go to the inside?
If I'm in a fight I don't want to have to prove to this guy just how fit I am......
I want the fight finshed, so I go to the outside and check his movement with traps and checks, to make sure that I am doing the hitting, not recieving the hits. I can trap with one hand, and hit with the other.... whilst my legs are dancing a tattoo all up and down his leg.
If I go inside I will have to face all of his weapons, if I go outside, I am in control of his closest weapons, which means he can't use the other ones...
You do the math.......



I have never fought in competitions...........
And I wasn't refering to school yard tostesterone(?) exhibitions.
I was talking about real fights with fists bottles knives and clubs. I have been there and done that.
I have won some and lost some, but yes I really do know what I'm talking about....

--Dave





:shrug:

Your talking as if you know it all. School Yard fights? These are crews and gansters. This is high school not middle school, there are no cheap schoolyard crap.

Why the hell would you want to go to the inside?
If I'm in a fight I don't want to have to prove to this guy just how fit I am......
I want the fight finshed, so I go to the outside and check his movement with traps and checks, to make sure that I am doing the hitting, not recieving the hits. I can trap with one hand, and hit with the other.... whilst my legs are dancing a tattoo all up and down his leg.
If I go inside I will have to face all of his weapons, if I go outside, I am in control of his closest weapons, which means he can't use the other ones...
You do the math.......

unfortunatley, fights arent theory, theyre reality. You cant expect to end your fight like this. When your on the outside, theres no reach, the only strike your can make is with the tip of your toes.

And mostly controlled by adrenal dump. That's why when you watch security footage of street fights, most times they throw these wild hooking type punches that mostly miss, and they do this without taking a step. This is because adrenalin, causes your hips to lock up, and causes you to lose depth perception. That is uless, of course you have had the training required to deal with it.

Do you think everyone fights like this? People who have gotten in many fights have experience, they know what to do.
As for the "Are we talking about sports contests now?", MMA fights are far more than contest, these are grown adults who have the skill to put you in the hospital..not a amatuer TKD match.

 

[Mormegil]

Originally posted by muayThaiPerson
What do you mean?

If your question was about parrying and stepping inside, not just the simultaenous parry / strike:

On a left matched lead rear cross, for example, you can slip inside, with a right hand parry to the outside over your left arm, while you finger jab to the eyes with the left hand. You have to be wary of his left hand in this case, as you're technically open on that line, but your right hand should be close enough to your face to catch a jab or even a hook to the head, and you can always drop your forearm to catch any low line left punch. It's also a nice setup to enter with a rear elbow.

 

[D.Cobb]

Originally posted by muayThaiPerson
Your talking as if you know it all. School Yard fights? These are crews and gansters. This is high school not middle school, there are no cheap schoolyard crap.

Sorry dude, school is school. Granted these days human life is a lot cheaper than when I was in school, but we still did the dance!
Mind you these days it is the kid with the gun that wins!
But your original question was to block or parry. All I did was give you my answer.

unfortunatley, fights arent theory, theyre reality. You cant expect to end your fight like this. When your on the outside, theres no reach, the only strike your can make is with the tip of your toes.

If you can't use your feet effectively then use your hands. If I'm on your outside pressed up against you and beating a tattoo of pain from the top of your head to the softest part of your kidneys, why on earth would I want to kick? The closest thing to a kick that I would want to throw in this situation is a knee to the thigh muscles.

Do you think everyone fights like this? People who have gotten in many fights have experience, they know what to do..

Notice, I said MOSTLY. Of course there are some that know what to do, but in MOST cases, those that know what to do, don't put themselves in a position where they need to.

As for the "Are we talking about sports contests now?", MMA fights are far more than contest, these are grown adults who have the skill to put you in the hospital..not a amatuer TKD match.

I never questioned the age of the practitioners or the severity of their techniques. You are trying to compare MMA competitions with street fights. It's like comparing go-karts with F1 cars. No matter how tough these guys are, in the ring they fight supervised and with rules. I'm not saying they can't fight, what I am saying is their ring fights are not street fights.
Which ever way you look at it, they are just a contest, no more no less.

Oh and by the way, I have met some amatuer TKD guys that could put you in hospital. As always, it's not about style, it's about the practitioner.

--Dave

:asian:

 

[muayThaiPerson]

You dont even know me, how could you say you've met amatuer TKD ppl that could put me in the hospital. Unless they're older than me, taller than me, and wieght more than me, then its a different story.

What I meant by Amauetr tkd fight was the tagging and all. theres no violence, just points. I didnt say that TKD sucked or anything.


Knee to the thigh?! Please. I bet youve never utilized your knee before. Do you think these guys close their eyes when they fight? They are aiming for what they see, wherever you move, thats were their headed

 

[D.Cobb]

Originally posted by muayThaiPerson
You dont even know me, how could you say you've met amatuer TKD ppl that could put me in the hospital. Unless they're older than me, taller than me, and wieght more than me, then its a different story.

What I meant by Amauetr tkd fight was the tagging and all. theres no violence, just points. I didnt say that TKD sucked or anything.


Knee to the thigh?! Please. I bet youve never utilized your knee before. Do you think these guys close their eyes when they fight? They are aiming for what they see, wherever you move, thats were their headed

I hope you don't fight, the way you communicate. Your original comment was;

As for the "Are we talking about sports contests now?", MMA fights are far more than contest, these are grown adults who have the skill to put you in the hospital..not a amatuer TKD match.

Just as you weren't referring to me personally, I wasn't referring to you either. Like you say, I don't know you and I make no pretense of that, I am just trying to make a point.

The whole point of being on the outside of your opponent is to limit what they see, so that you can do more to them than they can do to you.

Hey try it with a friend or training partner. Start on the outside, go slow and see if you can jam in against him and see what you can and what he can do. Go slow so that if it does work, you will know without a doubt, one way or the other.

Hey, truthfully, I don't care one way or the other whether it works for you or not, but I'm just trying to show you another option.

--Dave

:asian:

 

[muayThaiPerson]

Ive tried it, it doesnt work. In your profile, it says you do Karate, no punches to face right? Cuz im not sure.

If theres not face hits, then its totally different story...totally different book

 

[D.Cobb]

Originally posted by muayThaiPerson
Ive tried it, it doesnt work. In your profile, it says you do Karate, no punches to face right? Cuz im not sure.

If theres not face hits, then its totally different story...totally different book

Sorry, but my profile says, Ryukyu Kempo. It is my understanding that Kempo is as much Karate as Kung Fu is...... Though, I haven't really done either.

As for punches to the face, Oh yeah, we gottem!!

We hit everywhere that you do. We might just do it a little differently to you.

Oh and where you say it doesn't work, I guess that just means it doesn't work for you. It may not fit with your style, and to be honest, other than what I've seen from ringside, I have absolutely no idea of how Muay Thai do things.

--Dave

:asian:

 

[Bod]

Muaythai person, what D.Cobb means by "outside" isn't "out of arms reach" - i.e. the boxing term, but "parrying so that you are not between the arms of your opponent" - i.e. you are at the side or even behind your opponent. This is more like the kung-fu usage of the term outside.

Only parries and checks work against strikes - unless you are wearing gloves or the strike is a slap or round punch when a glove block or cover up will work. A well practised parry can work as an off-the-flinch response which increases its usefulness. A check has to be done when the opponent has his next punch chambered, not once it's begun. Both require footwork.

Hard blocks work better against grabs, or extended guards, where you are smashing at fairly static arms.

If you are fast enough to hardblock a strike then you probably won't need to as you could be somewhere else doing something far more destructive.