Guns in public schools?

[Brian R. VanCise]

Yes, definatily. Although I would hope that what was being taught was reasonable, of course, but even if it wasn't, at least it isn't being taught to the entire school.



And that's really the thing. It makes me wonder if the school administrators watched all of the "Home Alone" sequels in preparation for this.

I want to reinerate that having a disaster plan is important, whether it be a tornado or armed assailent. But, we don't spend a day of school teaching kids all about tornado's and how to deal with them, etc. Fighting back isn't a horrible thing to have as a last resort in the disaster plan, but it shouldn't be represented disproportionataly or placed above the more practical solutions like getting to safety.

A good approach for schools would be to have a disaster plan that accounts for these kinds of threats, where a realistic solution is detailed, but with language and a presentation that doesn't make the kids think that they are going to be facing armed gunmen every week. This should be presented no more proportionally then other disaster plans (such as fires, tornado's, etc.) In fact, I would say it should be presented less proportionally then the other disasters because depending on local, the statistical probability of dealing with a tornado or fire or earthquake is higher then dealing with a terrorist threat in the school building.

Then, self-defense should be a part of the physical education curriculum. This way, kids are learning the practical aspects of self-defense that will work best for them, such as how to deal with strangers, how to use voice, running away, and fighting back as a last resort. This will help them with more likely threats that they could face; like a child abductor for example. Presented appropriately, this will teach kids to be responsible for their own self-defense at an early age, which helps young ladies grow up with self-respect and dignity and the ability to say no, and young boys to grow up with a sense of responsability and respect for human life. These are more important and far more practical then having an assembly where kids are taught to throw their rulers at gunmen. They'll grow to learn an understanding of what self-defense means. Then, in the unlikely chance that they have to "fight back" as a last resort against an armed assailent in a school, they are more likely to succeed.

Any disaster plan and self-defense program needs to be approached holistically. I am all for effective disaster plans that are realistic expectations and presentations. I am in support of effective self-defense programs being integrated into the physical education curriculum that helps foster things like self-confidence, responsibility, dignity, and physical fitness in the process of giving practical self-defense solutions for children. These all need to be subtly integrated into the program. I am not for knee-jerk school district wide reactions that entertain unrealistic and dangerous expectations, and that harbor more panic and violence in our children.

Paul

I think it would be a great idea to have self defense as part of the schools physical education program. We should be teaching our children awareness, avoidance and action skills for the real world. Unfortunately I do not see most administrators wanting self defense taught in their schools. Similar to most Police Chiefs not really wanting to have a heavy emphasis on Defensive tactics in their departments as well. Simply put they would be and are afraid of lawsuits.

 

[Grenadier]

Unfortunately I do not see most administrators wanting self defense taught in their schools.

Many such admininstrators are still living in their own worlds, thinking that such things are "evil" without having any knowledge in such matters. They believe that such things promote violence, when that's simply not the case.

I can only hope that through patience, and persistence, that the martial arts community can change such beliefs.

 

[Cruentus]

I think it would be a great idea to have self defense as part of the schools physical education program. We should be teaching our children awareness, avoidance and action skills for the real world. Unfortunately I do not see most administrators wanting self defense taught in their schools. Similar to most Police Chiefs not really wanting to have a heavy emphasis on Defensive tactics in their departments as well. Simply put they would be and are afraid of lawsuits.

I think your right for most districts, unfortunatily.

But, for districts like Burleson who are willing to pay tactical instructors to do a school-wide assembly on teaching middle schoolers how to throw pencils and rulers at gunmen, they might be open to consider an alternative that doesn't involve an unrealistic "band-aid" solution, that isn't a "knee-jerk" reaction to recent cases of school violence, and that would do better to foster the idea that violence isn't always the solution to everything in our children.

It's hard to pin-point my biggest problem with the Burleson solution, but if I had to it would probably be the fact that these folks don't even realize that they are actually breeding more violent behavior in children with solutions like what they purpose.

Paul

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

That is probably the fear of most administrators is that they would be teaching children of all ages how to be more violent. Similar to the fear of police administrators not wanting their officers to receive the best Hand to hand training because they fear they will use it and hurt someone. (rather than how it could protect their officers life)
Plus throw in the legalease and I do not see a nationwide public school self defense curriculum starting anytime soon. I wish that were not the case but unfortunately it is.

I would also agree that the afore mentioned program in Texas looks pretty limited in its effectiveness.

 

[Cruentus]

I would also agree that the afore mentioned program in Texas looks pretty limited in its effectiveness.

And to clarify, it is programs like the article described that fosters violent behavior in children, because unlike a viable self-defense program, the assumption is that a violent solution is the primary one.

When it appears that the primary way to solve many problems is through violence, and when it appears that there is violence lurking in every corner, then kids will have the tendency to exhibit more violent behaviors. If a hammer is your primary tool, everything begins to look like a nail.

A viable self-defense program, on the other hand, doesn't have violence as the primary option, and doesn't present material as if armed terrorists are going to burst into the door at any moment. There are a lot of common sense behaviors and awareness stuff that is emphasized as your first lines of defense.

 

[Cruentus]

Plus throw in the legalease and I do not see a nationwide public school self defense curriculum starting anytime soon. I wish that were not the case but unfortunately it is.

I wouldn't want that, though. I think it should be up to each school district to decide as to whether or not they should include a viable self-defense program in their curriculum.

 

[Kacey]

I think it would be a great idea to have self defense as part of the schools physical education program. We should be teaching our children awareness, avoidance and action skills for the real world. Unfortunately I do not see most administrators wanting self defense taught in their schools. Similar to most Police Chiefs not really wanting to have a heavy emphasis on Defensive tactics in their departments as well. Simply put they would be and are afraid of lawsuits.

I taught a TKD class in my school as a club, but couldn't get enough students to make it viable - but my adminstration thought it was a great idea.

I know a woman in Tennessee who is a PE teacher, who taught TKD as the PE curriculum - not part, mind you, but the entire curriculum. The administration loved it - the level of discipline problems reduced significantly during the several years she taught it, which was part of the purpose.

Problems I see with teaching self-defense in schools:

- it needs to start very young, when the moral values incumbent on good instructors can be taught strongly enough to counterbalance other messages reaching the students - because too many students are not being taught moral values at home - values like "do unto others" are often lost to "might makes right" in today's society. As a teacher, I can provide my students with a positive example - but that only goes so far, when they spend 85%+ of their lives OUTSIDE the school.
- it needs to have a purpose beyond "in case there's a school invasion". Despite the recent occurrences, this just doesn't happen that much. Unlike fire drills, however, which can be held 2-3 times a year and that's enough, self-defense training would have to be ongoing to be effective - and quite frankly, the schools have enough to teach already.
- the availability of instructors. Sure, it could most easily be done through the PE department - but how many PE teachers are trained martial arts instructors? And how many trained MA instructors want to become licensed teachers?
- alternative activities for students whose parents object on moral, religious, or other grounds

It's not that administrators don't want this, although I'm sure some do - it's that schools are already teaching way too many things that the parents should be teaching - everything from drug awareness to sex ed to bicycle safety to nutrition. At some point, the community and the parents need to step up and teach their own kids something - and quite frankly, it's the parents who are NOT teaching their kids whose kids cause problems. Income is not the determining factor - it is how involved parents are in their kids' lives that makes the difference, not what the school teaches them. Sure, a good teacher can (and often does) make a difference in children's lives - but there are a lot of factors out there that the schools cannot control - and should not be responsible for controlling.

 

[Cruentus]

I think that if it is not a martial art program, but a self-defense program that emphasizes all of the issues I mentioned that have little to do with fighting technique, then I think it can be useful if implemented into phys. ed., and wouldn't need to be an ongoing program to be effective.

However, I agree that too much is left up to the schools, that should be handled at home...

Paul

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Yes, certainly parents do need to do a lot more at home.

 

[Cruentus]

And thinking about it...yes I still agree that more needs to be done at home, but...

But as far as districts implimenting age appropriate self-defense (again, not martial art specific) into the phys. ed. program for (as an example) 6 weeks every 2 years starting at 2nd grade, and ending at 8th; and then allowing for 1 semester of gym credit in high school (not manditory, but among other credits available for phys. ed.), what would be so wrong with that?

6 weeks every alternating year isn't too intrusive, yet is plenty of time to teach valuable, lifesaving information to children. And besides, I think that would be a lot more useful then half the stuff that is done in gym classes now a days anyhow.

Side note: am I the ONLY one that found the home alone link humerous? :lol2:

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

And thinking about it...yes I still agree that more needs to be done at home, but...

But as far as districts implimenting age appropriate self-defense (again, not martial art specific) into the phys. ed. program for (as an example) 6 weeks every 2 years starting at 2nd grade, and ending at 8th; and then allowing for 1 semester of gym credit in high school (not manditory, but among other credits available for phys. ed.), what would be so wrong with that?

6 weeks every alternating year isn't too intrusive, yet is plenty of time to teach valuable, lifesaving information to children. And besides, I think that would be a lot more useful then half the stuff that is done in gym classes now a days anyhow.

Side note: am I the ONLY one that found the home alone link humerous? :lol2:

It is hard to disagree with that as I love Self Defense training. Unfortunately I do not see anything like this being implemented anytime soon.

 

[SFC JeffJ]

A few years ago, my wife went to the local high school and offered to make a self defense program available to the teachers. The Principal responded by saying you can't disguise fighting by calling it self-defense. Remember, this was for the teachers. A lot of people out there just can't stand the thought of it.

Jeff

 

[Cruentus]

Certainly many school districts won't allow it.

But for those districts looking to bring in tactical instructors to teach 6th graders how to throw pencils at gunman, I would think that proper disaster planning and a good realistic, age appropriate self-defense program would be a good alternative...

 

[KenpoTex]

-bump-

...cause this was a pretty good discussion.