Why Are People So Stupid With Guns?

[drop bear]

The question very quickly turns to - is that training required to own a gun? Should everyone be able to carry one whether or not they complete training? Add in questions about who should be allowed to have guns (ie: someone with a history of using guns badly, or anger issues, or depression), and these are all a very politicized topic.

Not really. The argument is basically is training is either nice to have or need to have.

Trying to make that political is weak sauce.

 

[drop bear]

That’s not what inalienable means.

That is exactly what inalienable means.

 

[gyoja]

That is exactly what inalienable means.

No, it’s not.

 

[Steve]

And some rights are inalienable.

Like life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?

 

[drop bear]

No, it’s not.

But don't you care how being able to own guns is inalienable affects other people?

 

[gyoja]

But don't you care how being able to own guns is inalienable affects other people?

1. I didn’t say anything about that either way. You are implying this without facts in an attempt to make a political statement.

2. Your question has nothing to do with my statement.

 

[Fungus]

Rights vs privileges is a part of this discussion. A license to drive is a privilege, gun ownership is a right. Some may find that fact distasteful. We have a system and an opportunity in this country to change the things we find distasteful.

As not beeing a US resident, I wonder what you guys are saying: Are you saying that litteraly anyone in US has an unqualified "right" to own a gun even without some minmal license examination/suitability or regardless of history of say violent crimes? do you guys need to register the weapons with authorities or police? What is the age limit? 16? 18?

 

[drop bear]

As not beeing a US resident, I wonder what you guys are saying: Are you saying that litteraly anyone in US has an unqualified "right" to own a gun even without some minmal license examination/suitability or regardless of history of say violent crimes? do you guys need to register the weapons with authorities or police? What is the age limit? 16? 18?

That is the theory. The practice is a little different because they do have laws.

But basically if you look too closely at the right to own a gun. It goes from yeah. Be nice to have if you are attacked.

To well.

Ozzy can explain it better.

 

[gyoja]

As not beeing a US resident, I wonder what you guys are saying: Are you saying that litteraly anyone in US has an unqualified "right" to own a gun even without some minmal license examination/suitability or regardless of history of say violent crimes? do you guys need to register the weapons with authorities or police? What is the age limit? 16? 18?

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/resources/ccw_reciprocity_map/

The link will provide you with the information that you requested by state.

 

[HighKick]

The question very quickly turns to - is that training required to own a gun? Should everyone be able to carry one whether or not they complete training? Add in questions about who should be allowed to have guns (ie: someone with a history of using guns badly, or anger issues, or depression), and these are all a very politicized topic.

The question very quickly turns to - is that training required to own an automobile? Should everyone be able to own one whether or or not they complete the training? Add in questions about who should be allowed to have automobiles (ie; someone with a history of multiple accidents, a DUI, road rage incidents, or depression), etc..

I think I do fully see your point. But see how quickly the optics can be changed? To me, that is not political, that is social/media driven diatribe.

 

[Badhabits]

In the USA it boils down to, in a nutshell- You're born with the right to own a gun. But you can lose that right very easily if you abuse it, or commit crimes. Being able to have your lawfully owned gun outside of your home varies by state.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

The question very quickly turns to - is that training required to own an automobile? Should everyone be able to own one whether or or not they complete the training? Add in questions about who should be allowed to have automobiles (ie; someone with a history of multiple accidents, a DUI, road rage incidents, or depression), etc..

I think I do fully see your point. But see how quickly the optics can be changed? To me, that is not political, that is social/media driven diatribe.

I'm really not posting here to have a debate on what is/isn't political. Just came on to post a reminder as I saw this thread heading into a political thread.

Guns are something that I do have experience with, but no practical use, so either way I would not feel qualified to weigh in.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

As not beeing a US resident, I wonder what you guys are saying: Are you saying that litteraly anyone in US has an unqualified "right" to own a gun even without some minmal license examination/suitability or regardless of history of say violent crimes? do you guys need to register the weapons with authorities or police? What is the age limit? 16? 18?

It’s a right, but there are laws that vary state to state. Certain types of guns and accessories are regulated or banned in some states. In some states 10 round magazines are the limit, in other states you can own a quad 50 caliber machine gun turret or vulcan cannon. In most places teenagers can hunt after taking a hunters safety course. in some places people can openly carry, in others it’s concealed carry only with a permit that requires 16 hours of training and extensive background checks.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

As not beeing a US resident, I wonder what you guys are saying: Are you saying that litteraly anyone in US has an unqualified "right" to own a gun even without some minmal license examination/suitability or regardless of history of say violent crimes? do you guys need to register the weapons with authorities or police? What is the age limit? 16? 18?

…Felons forfeit their gun rights and voting rights.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

As not beeing a US resident, I wonder what you guys are saying: Are you saying that litteraly anyone in US has an unqualified "right" to own a gun even without some minmal license examination/suitability or regardless of history of say violent crimes? do you guys need to register the weapons with authorities or police? What is the age limit? 16? 18?

There's a base right, but it's qualified by state. Something I don't think a lot of people outside the US understand is, pretty much everything varies by state. There is a federal minimum for most things, then each state decides from there if they will increase that or not (minimum wage/employee rights are the most obvious ones). Then sometimes cities will have even stricter laws. But city laws can't negate state laws, which can't negate federal laws (generally).

For guns, in my current state of North Carolina, I can pretty much go into a shop and walk out with a gun, no different than if I wanted to buy a skateboard.

In my previous state of New York, I could buy a rifle or shotgun without a license, but for a handgun, I'd need a license. If I lived in NYC, I need a license for all of those. And the process to get that license includes a background check, multiple proofs of citizenship, my legal history, any military history and reason for leaving if I left, information of any business I may run, and two character reference letters that have been notarized.

The minimum age also varies by state and type of gun. The youngest is 14, while the oldest is 21. Most states it's 18 or 21. In North Dakota, there is no minimum, but minors have to be supervised while using a gun.

 

[Fungus]

Thanks for the informative posts!

I realize parts of US are very different.

The minimum age also varies by state and type of gun. The youngest is 14, while the oldest is 21. Most states it's 18 or 21. In North Dakota, there is no minimum, but minors have to be supervised while using a gun.

Wow! compared to Sweden this is very EXTREME indeed! I can't see this happening here in any visible future.

However I realize that for those like like guns, or play at the shooting range with cool stuff you guys must have a lot of fun!

 

[Mallic]

There's a base right, but it's qualified by state. Something I don't think a lot of people outside the US understand is, pretty much everything varies by state. There is a federal minimum for most things, then each state decides from there if they will increase that or not (minimum wage/employee rights are the most obvious ones). Then sometimes cities will have even stricter laws. But city laws can't negate state laws, which can't negate federal laws (generally).

For guns, in my current state of North Carolina, I can pretty much go into a shop and walk out with a gun, no different than if I wanted to buy a skateboard.

In my previous state of New York, I could buy a rifle or shotgun without a license, but for a handgun, I'd need a license. If I lived in NYC, I need a license for all of those. And the process to get that license includes a background check, multiple proofs of citizenship, my legal history, any military history and reason for leaving if I left, information of any business I may run, and two character reference letters that have been notarized.

The minimum age also varies by state and type of gun. The youngest is 14, while the oldest is 21. Most states it's 18 or 21. In North Dakota, there is no minimum, but minors have to be supervised while using a gun.

I guess the logic is the most dangerous firearm is the one you don't see coming

 

[Steve]

But don't you care how being able to own guns is inalienable affects other people?

The tricky question is how do we resolve conflicts between two inalienable rights? When your right to own a gun directly impacts my right to life….

From a self defense perspective, it makes things difficult.

I guess the logic is the most dangerous firearm is the one you don't see coming

They are literally designed to kill things. They’re all dangerous, by design.

 

[Mallic]

The tricky question is how do we resolve conflicts between two inalienable rights? When your right to own a gun directly impacts my right to life….

From a self defense perspective, it makes things difficult.


They are literally designed to kill things. They’re all dangerous, by design.

Dude think about it what's more dangerous someone who screaming to the world they are gonna hurt you or someone who puts up a facade only for you to realize you got a bullet in your stomach before you even have a chance to react?

 

[HighKick]

I'm really not posting here to have a debate on what is/isn't political. Just came on to post a reminder as I saw this thread heading into a political thread.

Guns are something that I do have experience with, but no practical use, so either way I would not feel qualified to weigh in.

I agree, and in now way am I trying to make this a political discussion.

But, making this a country specific topic, gun ownership is a foundational issue, and is a directive in how our freedoms were created and how they are and will be maintained in the future.

I do see how different the viewpoint and perspective gets the farther and farther away our country gets from being in a major conflict. For example, 9/11 may the considered the most recent 'major' conflict (although I would disagree). Most everyone was ready to arm up and defend their country when it happened. It is/was a raw, carnal feeling that has Great value and really puts a exclamation point on why people should be allowed to carry.

22-years later, for several reasons, it is extremely grey what the climate is on who/how many would stand up and defend this country.

Parsing it down to the state level (and by the way, many of our states are the same size as some countries), there are inalienable rights concerning defending a states borders. And to take it a step farther, to defending an individuals curtilage. Yes, they are regulated at the federal level first, state second, and municipality third.

It will always be a hot topic. And it should be IMHO. That is the only way to balance the equation. But it is imperative to include ALL the variables when doing so, not just the emotional, sensationalized media images.