Gun vs. Knife

[MJS]

This is a topic that I took part in on another forum, and I have to say, it definately sparked alot of interest, so I hope it does the same here.

In regards to weapons, if you had to choose one to defend yourself with, what would it be--a gun or a knife? Now, before we get too far into this, let me say, that I've had some people say, "Well, don't you think in a SD situation, if you use a knife to cut someone, you'll go to court and the judge will send you to jail for using such a brutal weapon to defend yourself?" Well, keep this in mind, of course, you would only use a gun or a knife in an extreme situation. Just like with empty hand SD, you don't always need to break the guys knee to get away.

Please keep in mind a few things while you are responding to this thread.

1- While talking about the gun, keep in mind that I'm referring to the "average Joe", not a LEO or military. How often does the average person train with the gun, and what types of situations does he put himself into--IE: Training under stressful conditions, against a moving target, having the weapon conceled under clothing, such as a jacket, or in low light conditions.

2- Which weapon is going to be more productive. Which is going to cause the most damage and is the easiest to use. With a gun, it pretty much has to be pointed at the person for maximum results, while the knife can be held any way and it will still cut you.

3- Along the same lines as question 1, but how much skill is it going to take. Remember, we are talking about the average person. A 3 yo child can cause alot of damage with a knife.

Once again, let me say, in regards to using such brutal weapons to defend yourself. Keep this in mind also. I'm referring to extreme situations. Life or Death. If you have used every other possible means of getting out of the situation, if you were against more than 1 person, and your wife or child was in danger, you can't tell me that if there was a rock on the ground that you would not pick it up and use it.

I look forward to hearing everybodys thoughts on this topic!

Mike

 

[A.R.K.]

Mike,

It could be very situational. What is the distance we are talking about? If we are talking inside the space of a phone booth [typical attack distance] then a knife has some advantages over a firearm. First off, it doesn't jam, misfeed, run dry and is silent. It is easier to conceal and takes less skill to wield effectively. And the wounding potiential is vastly superior.

As a LEO [DD] I carry both on and off duty. Each has a purpose and is range specific. In a typical attack [3ft or less] I would probably respond in the order hand-to-hand, knife, firearm. But the incident/subject factors would of course play a big role for or against that progression.

:asian:

 

[Disco]

The average Joe - I go with the gun. Gives him distance, dosen't have to be somewhat physically fit to tangle with another (knife fight takes energy).

Plus it's really hard to reload a knife:rofl:

 

[A.R.K.]

Because you don't need to reload it. :rofl:

 

[tonbo]

I would say a knife. It's a bit more instinctual for the average Joe to use (pointy end goes into the other guy), and doesn't have a kick, safety feature, misfeed, etc. that the gun has. Plus, you can use the knife in a number of different ways, depending on your grip and whether you choose to slash or stab with it.

Of course, this is *all things being equal*, which they never are. If I had my choice at a distance? No brainer.....give me the gun. Close quarters? I'd still opt for the knife, since if it got taken away from me, I would feel safer. I feel like I would still have a fighting chance when trying to get my knife back from someone else.

Too many variables in this one...

Peace--

 

[MJS]

The thing with the distance. Well, most people that carry a gun, aside from LEO, have it concealed, not in the open. If you had a jacket on, with the gun under, by the time you got it out, took your stance, aimed, and shot, the guy with the knife could have cut you 10 times already. Plus, there are some knives that you could hld in your hand, without the other person seeing. Before he has a chance to react, he can be cut.

Very interesting posts so far!!

Mike

 

[lost_tortoise]

Since I don't own any guns, but I do own and carry a LOT of knives, it would definitely be the knife for me. For concealment, levels of force, ease of use in variable situations and lethality (is that a word?), I choose a knife. At a distance, I would hope that not having a firearm would be irrelevant as I would be running away. I am too old to get involved in a conflict these days and if I have any distance between myself and the aggressor, I prefer to increase that distance. Lastly, my training with firearms is sorely lacking in comparison to my training with knives.

geoffrey

 

[Turner]

For me to properly answer this question I'd have to know the context. I am defending myself from an Average Joe. Is that all that I know? Where is Mr. Joe in relationship to me? What is Mr. Joe armed with? What is Mr. Joe wearing?

Depending on the situation I might want to have a different weapon. For the most part I would have to say knife because that is the weapon that I currently carry around and train with. I work in a facility where guns are not allowed and so it would be impractical to use a gun as a self defense tool if I have to leave it in the car, like a cell phone. If I start leaving it in the car then I'll wind up leaving it in the car when I'm going to other places. So a knife is my best bet because it is something that I carry with me at all times.

 

[Despairbear]

I would have to say a gun. There is a good resion on that no army has ever charged the field of battle armed only with knives.



Despair Bear

 

[MJS]

Turner- to answer your question. Well, first of all, none of us know the skill or abilities of the people walking around us everyday. How close are they? They could be walking towards to, or approach you from behind. They could be wearing a winter coat, or a t shirt. The possibilities are endless. I'm looking to see what everybodies views are on this subject. The other person could be armed with a club, a gun, or a knife, or empty handed. This situation could take place while you are alone, walking to your car at 2am, you could be with your family, or you could be asleep in bed and someone breaks into your house.

Mike

 

[Turner]

Exactly my point. The best weapon for a situation depends compltely on the situation. Sadly we will never know all of the minor details of a situation before we actually encounter that situation. So we arm ourselves based on factors that aren't related to the situation. I arm myself with a knife because I don't have a gun, I don't have the money to buy a gun, I don't know of a place that I could go to train with a gun and I spend most of my day in a place that checks for guns and will arrest or shoot you if you have a gun. Yet I would probably rather have a gun for self defense because I believe that pointing a gun at someone make the person think twice about attacking. More so than I would expect a person to back away from a knife.

I carry a knife though because I own many of them and I can practice using a knife and I can carry one everywhere that I go on a normal day. I am not supremely confident in my knife fighting skills and I don't think I would be quick enough in drawing it before being engaged. It's kinda difficult to dig in pockets while needing hands to block or otherwise ward off attacks.

 

[MartialArtist]

I carry both.

I like my Colt 1911 better.

 

[Jay Bell]

Both the gun and knife are pretty amazing weapons. They are both tools that the more that is learned, the more we understand how little we truly know of them.

You may have the range with a gun, however the inability to hit something in a high stress situation tends to give the advantage to the knife.

A knife has the ability to be used as a tool to stop the situation without lethal means. Slicing someone across the forehead as they come in is almost a sure end of the confrontation.

Pulling a trigger...even though being lethal wasn't intended, death can come pretty easily. Even hydro-shock based death can occur in non-lethal targets of the body. The gun is much more difficult to use in non-lethal ways. Even striking with a gun to the head can be lethal due to head trauma, due to the mere weight of a gun.

I was always taught that you should never draw your gun unless you were ready to fire.

Hrm...I'd say knife?

 

[jwreck]

gun. Hands down. Most of the time just the presence of the gun will end the situation.

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by jwreck
gun. Hands down. Most of the time just the presence of the gun will end the situation.

Most self-defense situations end with just the drawing of the gun so you are correct

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by jwreck
gun. Hands down. Most of the time just the presence of the gun will end the situation.

Might be true in some cases, but I've seen LEO's draw down on someone and they still keep coming. Of course, these people are trying to get themselves killed and are not in the right mind frame.

Mike

 

[Master of Blades]

I think it really depends on how much damage Im willing to inflict on "The Average Joe". Cant remember who but someone was telling me that with a gun people can get shot in the weirdest places and still keep coming, however a knife nearly every cut has the potential to be fatal.

Btw, My name is Joe, and I am average, so y'all better watch out

 

[Cryozombie]

I like and have both.

Given an "average" situation, I'd probably use a knife.

It sucks to get cut, and even if you dont manage to kill the Mofo attacking you, that cut's gonna remind him for days if you do it right.

Course I suppose a Bullet Hole will too. Heh heh

 

[Wmarden]

One mistake alot of people have made in this thread is refer to a knife as an option that gives you a variety of force options. While this may be true in some sense, in a proper use of force continuum a knife is lethal force. And the use of a knife would likely be considered a use of lethal force and subject to the same justifications as the use of a pistol or other firearm.


As for my answer given my training, I would use empty hand within a given range and beyond that the gun. But since I can't carry a gun at my regular job, I carry a folder just in case.

The one thing to consider is the 21 foot rule. You will likely get cut by a guy with a knife before you can finish your draw. However missing probably won't be a problem, weapon retention becomes the issue here.