Good teaching clip

[Nobody Important]

Taking a hit to maybe get a hit isn't a tactic, it is an admission of failure and inferior skill. Only idiots would actually train to do this. The aim is always not to get hit, even for the slowest plodders in boxing and MT

No its a reality of fighting. Try to avoid getting hit, but understand that you will regardless how hard you try not to. So condition to take it, it's inevitable.

Now since we are talking VT, your plan to get hit in the face becomes even more staggering. It is one thing to accept the possibility that you will be hit, quite another to actually plan to get punched in the face. I am not sure whether to laugh or cry really

You're putting words in my mouth. I never said to willingly take a shot to the face, but you have to prepare for it. Learning how to cover and take a shot is vitally important. I have yet to see a fist fight where someone didn't get hit. It's the elephant in the room that many Wing Chun people seem to ignore, believing that their Chi Sau skill will keep it from happening. Cover, Press, Counter is a proven tactic. Use it or not, I could care less.

 

[Nobody Important]

Would you happen to have a picture/photo/diagram to illustrate this? I'm trying to picture it but I'm not familiar with crab style in boxing and only partially familiar with wrestling stances. Thx NI!

Very similar to this, its for taking heavy pressure.

 

[LFJ]

I understand that, I am saying that your poorly illustrated diagram makes it appear as if the strikes were coming from an angle too far right for a left had to accomplish. I thought we cleared that up.

Not really. But never mind.

No I use a position called "Emergency Waist Bend & Iron Half Bridge" its like a cross between a wrestling stance and what is known as crab style in western boxing.

I don't know what that means and the description sounds like two opposites.

Agree, so what are we arguing about?

At this point, it seems we're arguing about taking a punch to the face as a last resort tactic.

I don't know why you were even joining this discussion and arguing any point if the center guard is not something you do. It has not cleared anything up, except to reveal other WC guys who use this guard agree on just taking the hit, which is sad because it's a straight punch, and if anything WC shouldn't fail against that so easily.

 

[wckf92]

Very similar to this.

Ahhh...ok. That helps a lot. Thanks.

 

[guy b]

It's not that I'm trying any such thing. You just can't even understand a very simple diagram of a very simple scenario. This discussion can't even get off the ground unless you understand the premise of the argument.

When his man sau hand is moved he just reverts to the funky crab guard boxing style he used to use when he was a fighter back in the day. I'm guessing it usually surprises the guys in the local wing chun class?

 

[guy b]

You're putting words in my mouth. I never said to willingly take a shot to the face

Yes you did:

it seems we have no argument other than the tactic of taking a hit

You continue:

Learning how to cover and take a shot is vitally important.

Never said it wasn't. But planning to get hit in the face in the hope that you can cover well enough not to get KO'd is idiocy

 

[Nobody Important]

Sounds pretty much unrelated to VT

It's a Wing Chun position not found in Yip Man branch, so yeah, not VT.

 

[guy b]

I don't know why you were even joining this discussion and arguing any point if the center guard is not something you do.

I hope Geezer comes back to discuss- at least he uses the hands on centre

It has not cleared anything up, except to reveal other WC guys who use this guard agree on just taking the hit, which is sad because it's a straight punch, and if anything WC shouldn't fail against that so easily.

The strange thing is no desire to do any better. Really weird

 

[guy b]

It's a Wing Chun position not found in Yip Man branch, so yeah, not VT.

Then why join this discussion that has nothing to do with anything you do? Seems like the action of a drama queen

 

[LFJ]

The strange thing is no desire to do any better. Really weird

Right. That is bizarre!

Recognize the center guard fails and inevitably gets you hit, then... just accept it?

 

[Nobody Important]

Yes you did:
You continue:
Never said it wasn't. But planning to get hit in the face in the hope that you can cover well enough not to get KO'd is idiocy

Where did I say take the shot to the face and counter? The only thing remotely close to any such suggestion was to hide the head with a shoulder shrug. If you do get hit instead of making him miss it's likely to be a glancing blow.

Here is an example while moving away

Receiving

Moving in with a bob and weave

Or if you prefer you could use Jung Bong

This is what I was referring to. Not willingly taking a face shot to give one.

 

[KPM]

Counterpunch.

How, I have all but spelled out for you. Still hoping you can come to it yourself since it's basic first form thinking.

But YOU defined the scenario already and said a counter-punch was not an option. So just what kind of game are you playing here?

 

[Nobody Important]

Then why join this discussion that has nothing to do with anything you do? Seems like the action of a drama queen

For the same reasons you join in on the discussions we non-WSLPB VT do. Quit whinging already.

 

[LFJ]

But YOU defined the scenario already and said a counter-punch was not an option. So just what kind of game are you playing here?

Let me say it again... Not an option from the center guard à la WT.

 

[KPM]

Without this basic thinking hand chasing is inevitable. No Liu sin dai da. No VT. What KPM and his various friends are advocating is either karate blocking away from the head which is suicidal, or advocating taking punches to make contact, which is very low percentage. All lacking what is one of the most basic and constantly reinforced lessons of SNT. The mind boggles.

So let me get this straight. YOU guys set up a difficult situation, define it right up front by saying counterpunching is not an option, criticize how others describe a response to keep from getting hit, and then say YOUR answer is to counterpunch!!!! The mind certainly does boggle!!!! And you wonder why no one wants to carry out a technical discussion with you two?????

 

[Nobody Important]

Right. That is bizarre!

Recognize the center guard fails and inevitably gets you hit, then... just accept it?

Well seeing as how I don't use this center guard and have no desire to do so, whats your point? IMO accept the fact that you're going to get hit. Work on absorbing punishment through good defensive position and counter.

 

[KPM]

There is no time for your Hok Bong or other actions with the left hand. Your opponent has already pulled it down and is a beat ahead of you.

You have three options : 1) cross block with pak (not at all optimal but could save you from being KO'ed)
2) counter punch with the right hand. Now, if your right hand is coming from the right or center then the best you can hope for is a simultaneous knock out. However, if your right hand is coming from the left toward the opponent's center, AND THE OPPONENT HAS THROWN A STRAIGHT PUNCH, you can counter punch and defend together. If it's a hooking punch, however, you'll still get clocked.
3) hope you have the chin to take the shot

Since LJF defined the situation by saying there was no opportunity to counter punch....I guess I'll take option #1, which is what I described. Had LFJ set up his theoretical scenario differently, then most definitely I would have counter-punched instead. You can't define the rules and then change them to suit yourself.

 

[LFJ]

Well seeing as how I don't use this center guard and have no desire to do so, whats your point?

More to KPM and Juany who have basically accepted the fact that they will have to chase arms and likely be hit, and aren't looking for a solution.

 

[Nobody Important]

So let me get this straight. YOU guys set up a difficult situation, define it right up front by saying counterpunching is not an option, criticize how others describe a response to keep from getting hit, and then say YOUR answer is to counterpunch!!!! The mind certainly does boggle!!!! And you wonder why no one wants to carry out a technical discussion with you two?????

Because they wanted everyone to describe hand chasing scenarios in which they could spring a "gotcha" moment and claim that counter punching is the correct answer after all. Problem is it isn't, the counter punch will likely fail as well because you are already a step behind. Best thing to do IMO is simply to cover and absorb (if necessary) using body movement and then counter. This is the problem with "What If" scenarios, little things can be added or changed to support a narrative. In all reality, you will get hit when fighting, learn how to deal with it in a manner successful to you.

 

[KPM]

So,

Pin Sun, YCW, TWC, and maybe others all agree on having to take the punch?

None of them can defend a simple straight line punch from this line if their lead arm is lost?

Heck, I'd just punch the guy straight away. But I was told that wasn't an option. Another case of "bait and switch" to suit your own purposes.