Good teaching clip

[LFJ]

@Juany118

I do not believe for one second that you have ever studied WSLVT.
You certainly have never expressed the faintest understanding of it.

 

[Juany118]

@Juany118

I do not believe for one second that you have ever studied WSLVT.
You certainly have never expressed the faintest understanding of it.

Hmmm so an ad hominem attack instead of addressing the actual point being made. That is telling.

 

[LFJ]

You and LFJ on the other hand, try to come off as individuals of superior intellect.

It's not that I'm trying any such thing. You just can't even understand a very simple diagram of a very simple scenario. This discussion can't even get off the ground unless you understand the premise of the argument.

 

[Nobody Important]

Those red attack lines are within the shoulder line of the opponent's triangle facing directly the defender's triangle.

The attacker's arms need only create that angle. It doesn't require stepping anywhere.

If you can't even understand this much, we are wasting our time here.

Those lines don't look like they are to me, they look to be coming from an angle off the defenders left side, but if you say otherwise, OK. To me it isn't clearly illustrated.

Yes. I agree. That was my entire point! And it is the fault of the WT guard occupying center! That's what the diagram is spelling out for you. It fails. Most WC fails in this common scenario against a straight punch, the type of punch they spend years working with!

Then what the hell are you arguing about? You're going to get hit, it's inevitable. Learn how to take and absorb hits. Anything outside of "rolling" with it would require complete evasion or arm chasing, both unlikely to succeed.

 

[Nobody Important]

It's not that I'm trying any such thing. You just can't even understand a very simple diagram of a very simple scenario. This discussion can't even get off the ground unless you understand the premise of the argument.

Maybe because the diagram isn't quite as you described in the scenario. This is a better representation of what you were describing.

 

[LFJ]

Those lines don't look like they are to me, they look to be coming from an angle off the defenders left side, but if you say otherwise, OK. To me it isn't clearly illustrated.

The line closest to the center line is almost parallel. How could that not clearly be throw from someone standing squared shoulder directly in front of you?

Then what the hell are you arguing about? You're going to get hit, it's inevitable. Learn how to take and absorb hits. Anything outside of "rolling" with it would require complete evasion or arm chasing, both unlikely to succeed.

I'm arguing against the obsession of occupying center to control space, since obviously it fails.

 

[LFJ]

Maybe because the diagram isn't quite as you described in the scenario. This is a better representation of what you were describing.

Whatever. It's not that complicated, man. You lose your lead arm and are attacked through the opening left of center with a straight line punch. Rear hand occupying center fails.

 

[LFJ]

Hmmm so an ad hominem attack instead of addressing the actual point being made. That is telling.

Your post was wholly irrelevant to the discussion at hand, and you mention previous experience with WSLVT for no reason, also irrelevant and not believable based on your postings. Not ad hominem.

 

[Nobody Important]

The line closest to the center line is almost parallel. How could that not clearly be throw from someone standing squared shoulder directly in front of you?
I'm arguing against the obsession of occupying center to control space, since obviously it fails.

My argument about those lines were applied to a left hand strike of the attacker, from a point center to the base of the triangle. I argued that a left hand couldn't follow the trajectory of those lines without moving right. Since it appears that you meant for the attacker to be aligned centrally and equally with the red lines there is no argument. The illustration just didn't reflect that position IMO.

I agree occupying center is dangerous, especially if the opponent is heavier and/or stronger than you. Its a strategy for disaster.
Now that, that's clear it seems we have no argument other than the tactic of taking a hit. Having been in the ring, it'll be hard to convince me that you can get away from being hit with any high percentage, best to learn to deal with it.

 

[Nobody Important]

Whatever. It's not that complicated, man. You lose your lead arm and are attacked through the opening left of center with a straight line punch. Rear hand occupying center fails.

No need to go all sour. Your diagram isn't a clear representation of the scenario you were laying out IMO. I'm hoping it was poor artistic skill rather than a deceitful attempt at entrapping us "broken dummies" so you could enlighten us.

 

[LFJ]

My argument about those lines were applied to a left hand strike of the attacker, from a point center to the base of the triangle. I argued that a left hand couldn't follow the trajectory of those lines without moving right. Since it appears that you meant for the attacker to be aligned centrally and equally with the red lines there is no argument. The illustration just didn't reflect that position IMO.

Those lines of attack can be taken by a left or right straight punch, whether the attacker is directly in front of the defender, or to the defender's left.

If you don't understand how, never mind. It's irrelevant. Just look at the attack lines, the defender's lead arm being gone, and rear arm not being able to defend while on center.

I agree occupying center is dangerous, especially if the opponent is heavier and/or stronger than you. Its a strategy for disaster.

So your WC doesn't use the man/wu hands on center as a guard?

Now that, that's clear it seems we have no argument other than the tactic of taking a hit. Having been in the ring, it'll be hard to convince me that you can get away from being hit with any high percentage, best to learn to deal with it.

I'm not saying you will never get hit in a fight, but in this scenario the only reason you get hit is because the center guard fails.

WC should not fail like this against a simple straight punch.

 

[guy b]

Hmmm so an ad hominem attack instead of addressing the actual point being made. That is telling.

It's the fact that you don't know anything about it that's the giveaway. It isn't any kind of an attack, more like an observation of reality. If you did study WSL VT then you didn't learn much, which sounds fishy since the bit you guys are struggling with is SNT

 

[guy b]

Maybe because the diagram isn't quite as you described in the scenario. This is a better representation of what you were describing.

It's showing exactly the same thing. Again you are concentrating on debating minutiae because you haven't a clue how the system works.

 

[guy b]

My argument about those lines were applied to a left hand strike of the attacker, from a point center to the base of the triangle. I argued that a left hand couldn't follow the trajectory of those lines without moving right. Since it appears that you meant for the attacker to be aligned centrally and equally with the red lines there is no argument. The illustration just didn't reflect that position IMO.

While this reveals a hilarious new depth of misunderstanding, I am happy that you finally have a scenario in your head which you can visualise and which reveals the problems with holding the hands on centre. Now run along and let Geezer puzzle it, there's a good chap.

 

[Nobody Important]

Those lines of attack can be taken by a left or right straight punch, whether the attacker is directly in front of the defender, or to the defender's left.
If you don't understand how, never mind. It's irrelevant. Just look at the attack lines, the defender's lead arm being gone, and rear arm not being able to defend while on center.

I understand that, I am saying that your poorly illustrated diagram makes it appear as if the strikes were coming from an angle too far right for a left had to accomplish. I thought we cleared that up.

So your WC doesn't use the man/wu hands on center as a guard?

No I use a position called "Emergency Waist Bend & Iron Half Bridge" its like a cross between a wrestling stance and what is known as crab style in western boxing.

I'm not saying you will never get hit in a fight, but in this scenario the only reason you get hit is because the center guard fails.WC should not fail like this against a simple straight punch.

Agree, so what are we arguing about?

 

[guy b]

Now that, that's clear it seems we have no argument other than the tactic of taking a hit. Having been in the ring, it'll be hard to convince me that you can get away from being hit with any high percentage, best to learn to deal with it.

Taking a hit to maybe get a hit isn't a tactic, it is an admission of failure and inferior skill. Only idiots would actually train to do this. The aim is always not to get hit, even for the slowest plodders in boxing and MT

Now since we are talking VT, your plan to get hit in the face becomes even more staggering. It is one thing to accept the possibility that you will be hit, quite another to actually plan to get punched in the face. I am not sure whether to laugh or cry really

 

[Nobody Important]

It's showing exactly the same thing. Again you are concentrating on debating minutiae because you haven't a clue how the system works.

While this has been a big misunderstanding, it was because the diagram isn't as clear as you're making it out to be. Mine clearly illustrates the point y'all were trying to make whereas the other IMO isn't as clear concerning the positions of the combatants in regards to the attack lines.

 

[guy b]

No I use a position called "Emergency Waist Bend & Iron Half Bridge" its like a cross between a wrestling stance and what is known as crab style in western boxing

Sounds pretty much unrelated to VT

 

[guy b]

edit

 

[wckf92]

No I use a position called "Emergency Waist Bend & Iron Half Bridge" its like a cross between a wrestling stance and what is known as crab style in western boxing.

Would you happen to have a picture/photo/diagram to illustrate this? I'm trying to picture it but I'm not familiar with crab style in boxing and only partially familiar with wrestling stances. Thx NI!