Good arts for getting to your gun

[lklawson]

Yet police train bjj and bjj conepts. Even though they don't relate to police work?

What you are describing is a dogma principle.

No. You are deliberately misrepresenting what I wrote in order to "win" an argument. It's juvenile and petty.

 

[lklawson]

Of course if you do BJJ for some reason you wind up interacting with a lot of police. (Don't know why it is completely different to police work and industry training is doing such a grand job)

Well gee willikers Beav, I know a lot of LEO in Judo. I've seen many in Karate, TKD, and Aikido too.

Still doesn't mean you know jack about "gun grappling."

 

[drop bear]

No. You are deliberately misrepresenting what I wrote in order to "win" an argument. It's juvenile and petty.

You are going from no content argument to no content argument.(all generalisations and dogma) You havent made an argument anybody needs to "win" at the moment. You have just been incorrect.

Which I have been pointing out.

 

[drop bear]

Well gee willikers Beav, I know a lot of LEO in Judo. I've seen many in Karate, TKD, and Aikido too.

Still doesn't mean you know jack about "gun grappling."

So is any of that police work?

Why are they doing those styles?

 

[drop bear]

Some are, actually - it depends upon the instructor. My first NGA instructor was a DT (defensive tactics - LEO hand-to-hand) instructor and former cop. When he had a cop in his class, he taught cuffing (those of us with interest got to learn some of it if we wanted to). And instructors can easily emphasize the points that make the necessary control more accessible. The difference when comparing to guns is simply that if someone isn't familiar with guns (how they are carried, the problems with drawing from different carry positions and cover garments), they tend to give over-simplified answers. I've seen instructors use a holster on top of their gi to demonstrate how easily they can draw from some positions, but I could see the problem they'd have if they were wearing a concealing garment (the issue for nearly all but uniformed cops). I also saw some making mistakes of letting the muzzle cross their body (a safety error, especially under those conditions). The instructor could work past these if they thought about it, but someone who's not familiar with guns and their carry/use is unlikely to think about them well. That's why a BJJ guy with some solid gun experience (better yet, with some good defensive gun training) is far better equipped for this than a BJJ guy without that experience. They'll use the same foundation of techniques, but will have a different understanding of the risk/reward measurements, etc.

Correct. But isnt going to happen because of the entrenched positions of the gun authority.

You are never going to be able to mesh them together properly.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Correct. But isnt going to happen because of the entrenched positions of the gun authority.

You are never going to be able to mesh them together properly.

I’ve seen people from both sides work at it. It can be done, and is more often than you think.

 

[lklawson]

You are going from no content argument to no content argument.(all generalisations and dogma) You havent made an argument anybody needs to "win" at the moment. You have just been incorrect.

Which I have been pointing out.

Look, you've claimed that your experience and expertise in more generalized grappling gives you special insight and ability in gun-grappling areas such as when to draw, how to draw, how to maintain control of the firearm during a draw, retention, etc. But it is not so. You're wrong in the claim and either don't know you're wrong, even after being corrected, or you just refuse to admit it.

Your claims that the skill transfers are, at best, greatly exaggerated. Some of them can transfer but it needs training and refinement specific to the task. Apparently this is training and refinement specific to the task which you lack, or at least have not net admitted to actually acquiring.

That's the short and long of it. Generalized grappling skill does not give automatic skill in firearms retention, draw, or removal. It's as simple as that.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled blathering.

 

[lklawson]

Correct. But isnt going to happen because of the entrenched positions of the gun authority.

Horsecrap. The people in "entrenched positions of gun authority" ARE doing grappling and merging it with firearms.

This is how I know you are just arguing to try to "win" an argument. If you knew anything about the subject, you'd know how common it is. Heck, even if you just did a simple web search you'd get immediate hits.

The two most common bases for "gun grappling" are BJJ and Judo but there's a smattering of other stuff such as Aikido or FMA.

Here's two super-quick hits that I ran across in the last week or two without even trying.

About the Personal Defense Network | Personal Defense Network
SLAUGHTERING SACRED COWS: ACTUALLY, ANKLE GUNS ARE AWFUL FOR GROUND FIGHTING

Turns out that people "entrenched positions of gun authority" have been merging grappling with gun-handling, professionally, since prior to WWII. Fairbairn, considered one of the Fathers of modern "Combatives" (which includes pistol handling and hand-to-hand) was a Nidan in Judo by 1931 with certificates signed by Kano himself (who would have been 70 at the time).

Your claims are based on incorrect, uninformed, assumption, not fact, are false from the start and easily debunked with a basic google search.

 

[CB Jones]

SLAUGHTERING SACRED COWS: ACTUALLY, ANKLE GUNS ARE AWFUL FOR GROUND FIGHTING

Not a big fan of ankle holsters except for a backup weapon. Even sitting down a IWB holster is gonna be easier to access and easier to conceal the draw.

 

[drop bear]

Look, you've claimed that your experience and expertise in more generalized grappling gives you special insight and ability in gun-grappling areas such as when to draw, how to draw, how to maintain control of the firearm during a draw, retention, etc. But it is not so. You're wrong in the claim and either don't know you're wrong, even after being corrected, or you just refuse to admit it.

Your claims that the skill transfers are, at best, greatly exaggerated. Some of them can transfer but it needs training and refinement specific to the task. Apparently this is training and refinement specific to the task which you lack, or at least have not net admitted to actually acquiring.

That's the short and long of it. Generalized grappling skill does not give automatic skill in firearms retention, draw, or removal. It's as simple as that.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled blathering.

You claim was you know a cop.

 

[drop bear]

Horsecrap. The people in "entrenched positions of gun authority" ARE doing grappling and merging it with firearms.

This is how I know you are just arguing to try to "win" an argument. If you knew anything about the subject, you'd know how common it is. Heck, even if you just did a simple web search you'd get immediate hits.

The two most common bases for "gun grappling" are BJJ and Judo but there's a smattering of other stuff such as Aikido or FMA.

Here's two super-quick hits that I ran across in the last week or two without even trying.

About the Personal Defense Network | Personal Defense Network
SLAUGHTERING SACRED COWS: ACTUALLY, ANKLE GUNS ARE AWFUL FOR GROUND FIGHTING

Turns out that people "entrenched positions of gun authority" have been merging grappling with gun-handling, professionally, since prior to WWII. Fairbairn, considered one of the Fathers of modern "Combatives" (which includes pistol handling and hand-to-hand) was a Nidan in Judo by 1931 with certificates signed by Kano himself (who would have been 70 at the time).

Your claims are based on incorrect, uninformed, assumption, not fact, are false from the start and easily debunked with a basic google search.

You mean this course?

I am your sabum.

 

[drop bear]

I’ve seen people from both sides work at it. It can be done, and is more often than you think.

Not generally from industry trainers though. Sometimes but not often.

 

[lklawson]

You claim was you know a cop.

I know many. Still irrelevant to your claims.

 

[lklawson]

You mean this course?

I doubt it. He doesn't look anything like Fairbairn.

I am your sabum.

I knew you were TKD.

 

[lklawson]

Not generally from industry trainers though.

Based on?

 

[drop bear]

Based on?

My experience with industry trainers. PPCT and that sort of sillyness. if they can't get unarmed right. I am not trusting them with guns.

Nobody exept the trainers like ppct.
PPCT - Scam in the Policing Community or Something Else? — Steemit



You can see it with the issue with the seals new training and the politics from that.

Seals controversy.
Feature: Navy SEALs stir up controversy with MMA training

or even read a post from kong soo do.

 

[drop bear]

And I know I am harping on PPCT. But this one was just too epic to let slide.

No that was not an enter the dojo parody. That is real.

 

[lklawson]

My experience with industry trainers. PPCT and that sort of sillyness.

So you have no direct experience with "industry trainers," don't know which ones are considered legitimate within the industry, or even what is considered legitimate training. Yet your opinion is supposed to be valid?

Not so much.

 

[hoshin1600]

Why are they (police) doing those styles (BJJ)?

um maybe because they are people just like the rest of us and enjoy it.

 

[drop bear]

So you have no direct experience with "industry trainers," don't know which ones are considered legitimate within the industry, or even what is considered legitimate training. Yet your opinion is supposed to be valid?

Not so much.

Which is what the PPCT guy said. When I said his stuff doesn't work.