Fundamental pillars of self-defense?

[drop bear]

Tameshiwari , done properly, isn't nonsense.It isn't nonsense at all....

Especially when Australians do it.

 

[elder999]

Especially when Australians do it.

Spacers.......

 

[Buka]

I haven't been ducking the question of the fundamental pillars.....I'm still thinking about them.

So, I'm slow. What can I say?

 

[RTKDCMB]

What would you suggest? A kick to the groin? Punching? Knife hand attacks?

What would you suggest a double leg take down or perhaps hang on to one of his legs for a few minutes until she can wrestle him to the ground? A side kick to the side of the knee after moving aside would be a good start, following up with a knife hand strike to a vulnerable area like the side of the neck or base of the skull (whichever presents itself) is a good follow up.

Given that size and strength difference, it's doubtful that her standing strikes would have been very effective.

Not when they are taught properly.

Put that untrained guy in your typical TKD or Karate McDojo (where soccer moms like this unfortunate woman would no doubt have taken MA lessons)

From a McDojo (or in the case of TKD a McDojang) sure but a good school and she has a good chance

and put him up against the head instructor. My money would be on the street thug.

Make that a good school and you would lose your money.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Because (unfortunately) those are the type of MA schools women flock towards.

Some.

The schools full of nonsense like 10 year old black belts, and multiple board breaking.

And what makes it nonsense?

 

[RTKDCMB]

One of the fundamental pillars would be a good core of basic techniques trained diligently and with purpose.

 

[Hanzou]

What would you suggest a double leg take down or perhaps hang on to one of his legs for a few minutes until she can wrestle him to the ground?

I wouldn't recommend a DLT, no. However, I would recommend a clinch takedown of some sort. Either forward, side, rear, or from a clinch to a modified Kouchi Gake like so;

http://share.gifyoutube.com/vpP9zR.gif

A side kick to the side of the knee after moving aside would be a good start, following up with a knife hand strike to a vulnerable area like the side of the neck or base of the skull (whichever presents itself) is a good follow up.

I would actually support attempting a stamping kick to the knee or leg, since we teach the same thing in Bjj. Nothing wrong with that. However the difference is that we go in for the clinch regardless because there's a high chance that its not going to dislocate the knee, or cause much damage whatsoever. So your "Judo chop" follow-up would be a fruitless endeavor. In all honesty, it would probably be a fruitless endeavor regardless. A choke would be a better finisher.

Not when they are taught properly.

From a McDojo (or in the case of TKD a McDojang) sure but a good school and she has a good chance[/quote]

Speaking of good schools, there's actually a Renzo Gracie academy about 10 miles from her home. Of course she would have probably attended one of the many TKD schools instead.

 

[elder999]

Speaking of good schools, there's actually a Renzo Gracie academy about 10 miles from her home. Of course she would have probably attended one of the many TKD schools instead.

"Renzo Gracie?" Take note of what people have said in this thread in terms of winding up on the right side of the law, and note that this "gentleman," Mr. Renzo Gracie, live tweeted a "mugging" he "defended" himself against by chasing down and assaulting two people.

No, I'd call lots of BJJ schools good schools, but I'd never use the phrase "speaking of good schools," and the name, "Renzo Gracie" in the same sentence. Ever.

 

[Jenna]

Style doesn't matter.......

Technique doesn't matter.....

We've all heard of the "martial artist, " "karate instructor, " "kung fu master," that froze when confronted with sudden violence, and failed to defend themselves.....

Freezing matters-it shouldn't be an option, but it is.....

What really matters-the real "pillar of self defense" is-for the umpteenth time-mindset. Most people are disinclined to use violence against their fellow men, even when confronted with malicious and violent intent. It's not that it's not within their nature-it's simply that they have not ever had a reason to go there, and usually aren't trained to: the will to kill, the inclination perpetrate violence on a human being, is something that doesn't arise from motivation-the violent actions and intent of others-for everyone. Mindset-the will to use violence, and the ability to channel one's emotions into that violence, are of paramount importance: the retraining of the "flinch reflex," the ability to manage adrenalization, these are far more important than grapplling, or striking,or cutting with a knife, or hitting with a stick, or firing a gun.

The primary "pillar" of self-defense training, then, is training that develops the ability to control and channel fear, and the will and ability to act violently, and immediately......the secondary pillar is the one we should depend upon, and that is situational awareness....the tertiary one would fall under strategy, and consists primarily of not only being aware, but avoiding situations (or locales) with violent potential......

Is the mind of humility relevant at all? I mean acceptance of limitation that the limitation might be overcome? what do you think? Jx

 

[elder999]

Is the mind of humility relevant at all? I mean acceptance of limitation that the limitation might be overcome? what do you think? Jx

Humility might be just what some need to get through the aftermath.....it really has next to no place at all in the encounter itself.

 

[Drose427]

"Renzo Gracie?" Take note of what people have said in this thread in terms of winding up on the right side of the law, and note that this "gentleman," Mr. Renzo Gracie, live tweeted a "mugging" he "defended" himself against by chasing down and assaulting two people.

No, I'd call lots of BJJ schools good schools, but I'd never use the phrase "speaking of good schools," and the name, "Renzo Gracie" in the same sentence. Ever.

Didnt he get into a heap of trouble for assaulting a bouncer too?

 

[Hanzou]

"Renzo Gracie?" Take note of what people have said in this thread in terms of winding up on the right side of the law, and note that this "gentleman," Mr. Renzo Gracie, live tweeted a "mugging" he "defended" himself against by chasing down and assaulting two people.

No, I'd call lots of BJJ schools good schools, but I'd never use the phrase "speaking of good schools," and the name, "Renzo Gracie" in the same sentence. Ever.

Renzo produces some excellent students, so yeah I'd consider his schools very good. Definitely could have helped that woman in the video.

As for his little vigilante adventure, I found it hilarious. ::shrug::

 

[Drose427]

Renzo produces some excellent students, so yeah I'd consider his schools very good. Definitely could have helped that woman in the video.

As for his little vigilante adventure, I found it hilarious. ::shrug::

You found assault hilarious?

 

[Hanzou]

You found assault hilarious?

I find the beat down of two would-be criminals to be hilarious.

 

[Drose427]

I find the beat down of two would-be criminals to be hilarious.

Yeah...according to renzo...

Although he was in so much danger he could live tweet it XD

He also beat a downed guy, and chased a dude across town to choke him out and beat him after he lost consciousness..\

Thats pretty obviously Felony Assualt...

 

[K-man]

So, I'm slow. What can I say?

Happens to all of us as we get older.

 

[Jenna]

Humility might be just what some need to get through the aftermath.....it really has next to no place at all in the encounter itself.

Yes Sir agreed and understood.

I see people -MA people- unwilling to admit the short comings of their art or of their selves in the practice of that art for whatever reason.. I worry for those people. So right now before any encounter happens from the safety of our places and as a pillar of defence would you say humility in this way is at all useful?? I mean so our limitations might be conceded in order to be surmounted?

Jx

 

[Hanzou]

Yeah...according to renzo...

Although he was in so much danger he could live tweet it XD

He also beat a downed guy, and chased a dude across town to choke him out and beat him after he lost consciousness..\

Thats pretty obviously Felony Assualt...

Yet he wasn't charged, so clearly the cops believed his side of the story too.

What does any of this have to do with his excellent school in NJ again?

 

[Drose427]

Yet he wasn't charged, so clearly the cops believed his side of the story too.

What does any of this have to do with his excellent school in NJ again?

I dont believe the cops were ever involved XD

Why would you take SD classes from a criminal?

He was also charged with assault in another incident as well

 

[Jenna]

WONDERFUL post Jenna, thank you! Very well thought out and based on real experience and lessons learned.

The using paracord on a key chain is a useful idea. Are you good at braiding the paracord? Many clips on youtube but I still am not very good at it. Lots of uses in addition to make shift flexible weapon or even a sling (think David vs Goliath), for example it can also become a temporary sling (think arm sling of breaks and fractures) or even turniqet should the need arise after use. Outdoors, it can be used to trap food, secure shelter, even fire starter, trail marker. Lots of uses for 'self-defense' with just a little imagination and practice. Did you know that it can be used to friction burn thru duct tape and wire ties? If you braid a loop on the 'free end' you can use that loop to 'tie' your keys to your clothing, and it gives a method of holding onto the flexible weapon while in use. Not so much around the wrist as should it be grabbed it can be used to pull you close, but around the knuckles, then should it be grabbed and used to pull you have the option of letting go by simply opening your fingers. When thinking about using the keys have you given thought of targeting and strategy? I had a chess professor (nickname as we played chess at every visit to his knife shop) who was a very large 'first person' and an internationally known custom knife maker. One of his preferred edged weapons targets was to slice along the forehead above the eyes just below the hair line. His reasoning and experience was that face wounds bleed a lot and wounds above the eyes bleed into the eyes which can be painful and disconcerting to an attacker. There is tension in our scalp facia that helps to hold our skin in place. The cut he said released that tension/friction pulling the hair line back while pulling the forehead skin down, it could depending on the cut cause the forehead skin to flap down over the eyes, again disconcerting. It also marks the attacker well for later identification. Keys can be alternated in direction on the key ring to help facilitate cutting.

-I like your thought process about not looking like a victim and encouraging different selection. There was a study (the interview is available on video but I have not seen it in many years and have forgotten the name)where video of a street scene was taken, then the people in the scene were interviewed to find out their backgrounds and such. The film was then taken to a prison and prisoners convicted of violent crimes were shown that video and asked who would they rob. The selections were almost universal on who they would and who they would not attack. Based on body language and non verbal. They did not have access to the interviews. The people selected if I remember right were often prior victims of crime, had avoidance and scared look, etc. the person they all declined to attack turned out to be a decorated Vietnam veteran who had killed up close. While the selection was non verbal, violent attackers often do an interview prior to an attack. Simply being aware often it seems wards off 'their' attention

-Who is here and who belongs work. Have you read much about the Israeli profiling at airports and borders. The US secret service also does a lot of work on profiling and noticing the unusual. It is too difficult to see everything and everyone so they look for the unusual (and familiar as in they know what the criminals look like when both they are up to something and when they are trying to look innocent)
I was once at training inside of an airliner, and it was noted that the two most dangerous times was during the initial takeover by hostiles and during the takeover of the military/law enforcement. The most dangerous seat in these situations was along the aisles as the gunfights often went length wise of the aircraft. It was advised to look for 'shields' large folks that could absorb some of the damage. LOL I had lots of friends then for some reason LOL Finding helpful folks does not always mean that they want to or are able to, so thinking about how to get that help can be a useful exercise and also a self defense pillar perhaps?

So if I can paraphrase the pillars above in my words. Awareness is key and deliberate observation is the tool. Seeing who belongs and who doesn't, being aware of what tools are near for both use of and defense of, being aware of what signals are being sent by others and self. Being trained physically is important, having that knowledge inside helps to send the proper signals, and as a back up should all avoidance prove unsuccessful. Does that get to the gist of it?

Thank you for participating in the thread. Your thoughts are very valuable and seem right on.

Regards
Brian King

I like very much Brian that you think of pillars it is consolidatory and there is strength in the consolidation of two or more amid the majority that is factionalised or subscribing to the "me vs the world" mentality.. x

Yes you have this paraphrasing exactly accurate.. I now use cord to make a monkey fist which I can quickly form around a pebble or stone on the ground since they took my shiny BB off me lol.. And I think disconcerting is understating how it would feel to have your forehead flapping around over your eyes.. wow.. you have some awesome encounters, experiences and acquaintances.. hope I am around to read your autobiog!!

Also a pillar maybe should be equally applicable across genders here since you were talking of female targets yes? To say she *must* be capable of this or that.. is this how she MUST be?? What if she is genetically not so disposed to act or she is socially conditioned to be otherwise.. MUST she become some thing else? I have encountered women where this is too much of an ask.. You know there is the "warrior gene" which is expressed differently in men than women.. also certain people are predisposed to psychopathy (whether or not it is manifest) by that I mean they can have greater facility for ruthlessness in their defence etc.. Perhaps this is not relevant to pillars.. I just think some times it is nice for people to be black and white about how things must be.. I think it is sometimes too enamoured of the orthodox.. What do you think??

Jxxx