From Okinawa to Korea

[mrt2]

Things have been fun these last few weeks. I have now been taught all the curriculum for my new rank. I’ve been practicing hard at home and know it pretty well. We are at the knit picking stage and I love being here and refining my techniques. Tonight, after going through my new material, my instructor and one of the head black belts both said they didn’t know what to do with me because I am clearly ready to test now but the next testing cycle isn’t until September. I get the impression that they don’t do double testing once someone is at this point in rank progression.

So... I get two months to refine what I’ve learned. I guess that’s good, but I’m also a little disappointed. I like learning new material. It makes me wonder if I should back of on the practicing. I like doing so but now they don’t seem to know what to do with me. In talking with other students, it seems most folks rarely practice on their own unless they are about to test. I just enjoying my morning workouts so much. I do some strength and conditioning followed by stretching, followed by Taekwondo practice. But maybe I shouldn’t. Back when I studied karate, I practiced daily then too. But it was ok because they held tests every month for those that were ready to test. Rarely did anyone test two months in a row. But if someone was ready, it was a possibility. It also made it easy for some to go slower than the rest without feeling bad because only a few people tested each month. None of this everyone testing at once thing.

Oh well. For now I’m still enjoying it so that is good. I did get to spend the second half of class learning some Taekwondo self defense. It was neat to see something that were almost identical from karate and somethings completely different.

I suspect my progress would be slower if i didn’t have the MA background and the accompanying self-discipline that I have.


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I am in the same position. I advanced quickly, testing every month for 4 months in a row. This will be the first month where I am not testing. Honestly, if I tested again, I probably would pass since I have most of the material down with more than a week to go before the next test. But have I mastered the material? Not quite.

For example, last week, the head instructor called out basics out of order. The black belts and brown belts did the techniques instantly. It took me a second or two to think about it, and in some cases, I did the wrong one. So, when we start with basic 1 and go up, I get it right away, but not so much when they are called out of order. Second, sometimes just to shake things up, the head instructor will have the upper belts do the forms opposite, so instead of the first move going to the left, he will say to start going to the right. Can you do that?

Finally, I am sure there are things you can do to improve. In my case, the head instructor allowed me, and a few other green belts to participate in a sparring class normally reserved for black and brown belts. It was a humbling experience as the guy I was up against is one of our better fighters and has a background as a boxer before he started TKD. So none of my combinations landed except when he let me hit him, and even then, I was a little paranoid that he was setting me up, which he did a few times.

 

[_Simon_]

Yep, great point what these guys said. To focus not so much on grading and new material but on becoming a better martial artist and deepening your knowledge and ability of the art. It's a big difference to focus on improvement and consolidation of what you currently know compared to learning new material!

I know that most times I do Taikyoku Ichi (the first and most basic kata in karate), I learn something new, or I find something that needs working on (transitions, foot movement, hip rotation, moving the body as one, breathing correctly etc)

 

[Michele123]

You all are right of course. And that was easier for me in my old style because there was so much material and refining of techniques at each rank. Here there isn’t so much. On top of that, my instructor often asks assigned black belts to knit pick (sp?) my techniques and usually they have me do something then say that I’m doing fine and they have no suggestions. It’s frustrating. The only time I get feedback is when I’m learning new material or working directly with my instructor.

In my old style we had lots of partner drills that really tested your techniques. Not so much here.

Don’t chase rank nor new material; chase improvement. Unless you’ve got a predetermined amount of time before pyou have to leave, like say you’re moving away in a year, is there really any rush to learn anything?

Well... it’s not exactly predetermined yet but my husband and I are talking about trying for another child in the near future. Once I’m pregnant I won’t have long before I’ll have to stop for safety reasons.


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[pdg]

my instructor often asks assigned black belts to knit pick (sp?) my techniques and usually they have me do something then say that I’m doing fine and they have no suggestions.

I used to get that a lot...

People generally don't like to point out flaws, and even less people like having flaws pointed out - so they'll be used to not wanting to disappoint the student.

It's taken me a while, but there are now a select group who will actually be honest with me and truly pick instead of giving it the thumbs up and saying it's fine.

One thing that got it through to a couple of people was saying something along the lines of "I know there's stuff I must be doing wrong, or at least not quite right, so tell me. Don't try to make me feel better, don't coddle it, don't try to disguise it with complements, if I wanted to just be told how great I am I'd join a support group".

 

[Michele123]

I used to get that a lot...

People generally don't like to point out flaws, and even less people like having flaws pointed out - so they'll be used to not wanting to disappoint the student.

It's taken me a while, but there are now a select group who will actually be honest with me and truly pick instead of giving it the thumbs up and saying it's fine.

One thing that got it through to a couple of people was saying something along the lines of "I know there's stuff I must be doing wrong, or at least not quite right, so tell me. Don't try to make me feel better, don't coddle it, don't try to disguise it with complements, if I wanted to just be told how great I am I'd join a support group".

Oooh. This is good. I’d just assumed they weren’t as competent as they should be but I bet you’re right! I’ll try that script next time.


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[JR 137]

I used to get that a lot...

People generally don't like to point out flaws, and even less people like having flaws pointed out - so they'll be used to not wanting to disappoint the student.

It's taken me a while, but there are now a select group who will actually be honest with me and truly pick instead of giving it the thumbs up and saying it's fine.

One thing that got it through to a couple of people was saying something along the lines of "I know there's stuff I must be doing wrong, or at least not quite right, so tell me. Don't try to make me feel better, don't coddle it, don't try to disguise it with complements, if I wanted to just be told how great I am I'd join a support group".

I think part of it is people don’t want to criticize because they know they’ve got flaws too, and don’t want to come off as that guy who’ll pick everyone apart, yet does a lot of the same mistakes.

The seniors where I train will easily point out major flaws when asked. Asking them for tips on how to sharpen it up takes a bit more effort, but they’re great about it.

At my former dojo, we’d periodically perform our kata in front of the entire class, and my sensei would have everyone in class make one critique. I liked that. Sometimes it was really hard not repeating what someone else said and/or repeating the same thing you said to others.

 

[pdg]

I think part of it is people don’t want to criticize because they know they’ve got flaws too, and don’t want to come off as that guy who’ll pick everyone apart, yet does a lot of the same mistakes

I get that, and there's also the fact that the majority of people who outrank me are younger than I am.

I have almost the opposite problem though - I find it difficult to go along with the "give something good too" without feeling like it sounds extremely false. My solution of sorts is to package it like "I have/had the same problem with xyz, try this".

 

[JR 137]

I get that, and there's also the fact that the majority of people who outrank me are younger than I am.

I have almost the opposite problem though - I find it difficult to go along with the "give something good too" without feeling like it sounds extremely false. My solution of sorts is to package it like "I have/had the same problem with xyz, try this".

When I was in studying for my masters in physical education, we were taught to say “that was pretty good; here’s how to make it even better.” I use that a lot. Not those exact words, but similar. People are far more receptive to that than “here’s your mistake.”

Like you in the dojo context, I also use “I did/do the same thing. I did/try to do this.” That gets people to be more receptive. It lets people know you don’t think you’re perfect and have all the answers. And like you, I can’t bring myself to telling someone they’re doing something well when I think they suck at it. I’ll just defer to the seniors or let them know I struggled with it too. I struggled with quite a few things, currently struggle with other things, and will absolutely struggle with things in the future, so it’s not hard to relate when someone’s not getting something I didn’t have problems with.

 

[Michele123]

I wanted to share an update.

After the last post my instructor started working with me himself to point out little things to adjust/fix. It’s been AWESOME. That’s totally the kind of thing I’ve been wanting. I have several things to work on now and have been doing so the last couple weeks. Some of it is getting better some of it is harder because of old muscle memory from my previous style. Anyhow, it’s really helped me to feel more enthusiastic again.

Tonight I got to work one on one with my instructor again. He presented me with an option, but I have to choose. He said he talked to his master who suggested I double test again. So he said I can but it is up to me. There are only about 5-6 weeks left before the test. I’m confident with my current material but I’m worried the rest would feel rushed. He thinks I should and it would be no problem. Even after I reminded him that in a couple weeks I have to go back to once a week for the school year.

Honestly, I’m not sure. If he had asked me a month ago I would have said yes. Now... I don’t know. I wish they would have tests more often then once every three months or allow for early tests occasionally. I don’t like the idea of having to go through a complete test, put on the new belt, and immediately start the next test while I’m already wiped out and thirsty.

On the other hand, I hope to be pregnant again before the end of this school year. Starting around the 2nd or 3rd trimester I wouldn’t be able to train as hard and once the baby was born I wouldn’t be able to train for quite a while. With my husband’s job, there is no telling if I’d be able to train again or if we would move first (though I have tried to make my hubby promise not to love us with an 8 week old again).

So. That’s where I’m at with that.

On another note, some of the tweaks go against my old style. But some are exactly what I should have been doing there but somehow never translated to Taekwondo. For example, stances. In the front stance, most of the weight should be on the forward leg. Well in Taekwondo, (kukkiwon) there are waking stances. They are basically shorter forward stances. For some reason I’ve always treaded them as more of a back stance in regards to the weighty distribution. I didn’t even realize I was doing that. (Such a short stance as the regular stance seems strange to me to begin with). Also, waking straight instead of a crescent throws stances off as well. I think I’m doing better with them though because he didn’t comment on my stances tonight. I’ve been drilling them at home for two weeks since he brought it to my attention.

The other thing I struggle with is the Taekwondo side kick meaning something different than my old style side kick. Even though it’s called a side kick in Taekwondo, it’s much more similar to a back kick from my old style. I hear side kick and I just have this mental block and aim my foot like my old style side kick. I’ve been drilling this at home too but have not been as successful when doing the kick inside of Taekwondo drills.

So, that’s my long rambling post. I’ve been meaning to post for at least a week but life’s been busy. After being surprised. Y the option to double test, I decided it is high time I update my post.

 

[_Simon_]

I wanted to share an update.

After the last post my instructor started working with me himself to point out little things to adjust/fix. It’s been AWESOME. That’s totally the kind of thing I’ve been wanting. I have several things to work on now and have been doing so the last couple weeks. Some of it is getting better some of it is harder because of old muscle memory from my previous style. Anyhow, it’s really helped me to feel more enthusiastic again.

Tonight I got to work one on one with my instructor again. He presented me with an option, but I have to choose. He said he talked to his master who suggested I double test again. So he said I can but it is up to me. There are only about 5-6 weeks left before the test. I’m confident with my current material but I’m worried the rest would feel rushed. He thinks I should and it would be no problem. Even after I reminded him that in a couple weeks I have to go back to once a week for the school year.

Honestly, I’m not sure. If he had asked me a month ago I would have said yes. Now... I don’t know. I wish they would have tests more often then once every three months or allow for early tests occasionally. I don’t like the idea of having to go through a complete test, put on the new belt, and immediately start the next test while I’m already wiped out and thirsty.

On the other hand, I hope to be pregnant again before the end of this school year. Starting around the 2nd or 3rd trimester I wouldn’t be able to train as hard and once the baby was born I wouldn’t be able to train for quite a while. With my husband’s job, there is no telling if I’d be able to train again or if we would move first (though I have tried to make my hubby promise not to love us with an 8 week old again).

So. That’s where I’m at with that.

On another note, some of the tweaks go against my old style. But some are exactly what I should have been doing there but somehow never translated to Taekwondo. For example, stances. In the front stance, most of the weight should be on the forward leg. Well in Taekwondo, (kukkiwon) there are waking stances. They are basically shorter forward stances. For some reason I’ve always treaded them as more of a back stance in regards to the weighty distribution. I didn’t even realize I was doing that. (Such a short stance as the regular stance seems strange to me to begin with). Also, waking straight instead of a crescent throws stances off as well. I think I’m doing better with them though because he didn’t comment on my stances tonight. I’ve been drilling them at home for two weeks since he brought it to my attention.

The other thing I struggle with is the Taekwondo side kick meaning something different than my old style side kick. Even though it’s called a side kick in Taekwondo, it’s much more similar to a back kick from my old style. I hear side kick and I just have this mental block and aim my foot like my old style side kick. I’ve been drilling this at home too but have not been as successful when doing the kick inside of Taekwondo drills.

So, that’s my long rambling post. I’ve been meaning to post for at least a week but life’s been busy. After being surprised. Y the option to double test, I decided it is high time I update my post.

Ah cheers for the update . Yeah if I were in your shoes, I would just do a normal grade rather than double up. No point rushing anything and especially if you don't feel as ready as you could be. But totally up to you in the end!

Yeah one on one time is invaluable huh! Such a great opportunity to get stuck into things very particular to what you need to work on.

That's exciting about the pregnancy later on , but yeah pace yourself in terms of training and do what you can, am sure you'll be really missing going training for a bit, but you'll be back before ya know it .

Yeah I know what you mean with the stances hehe, took me sooo long to change from the crescent style movements to straight forward! Such a hard habit to break...

That's been the same for me with regards to the side kick! I've been trialling out TKD the last 3 weeks and yes I'm used to doing the side kick karate-style, whereas it seems in TKD they do it more like a back kick. We actually drilled a defensive spinning side kick last night, took me a few gos hehe but got it okay.

 

[dvcochran]

I wanted to share an update.

After the last post my instructor started working with me himself to point out little things to adjust/fix. It’s been AWESOME. That’s totally the kind of thing I’ve been wanting. I have several things to work on now and have been doing so the last couple weeks. Some of it is getting better some of it is harder because of old muscle memory from my previous style. Anyhow, it’s really helped me to feel more enthusiastic again.

Tonight I got to work one on one with my instructor again. He presented me with an option, but I have to choose. He said he talked to his master who suggested I double test again. So he said I can but it is up to me. There are only about 5-6 weeks left before the test. I’m confident with my current material but I’m worried the rest would feel rushed. He thinks I should and it would be no problem. Even after I reminded him that in a couple weeks I have to go back to once a week for the school year.

Honestly, I’m not sure. If he had asked me a month ago I would have said yes. Now... I don’t know. I wish they would have tests more often then once every three months or allow for early tests occasionally. I don’t like the idea of having to go through a complete test, put on the new belt, and immediately start the next test while I’m already wiped out and thirsty.

On the other hand, I hope to be pregnant again before the end of this school year. Starting around the 2nd or 3rd trimester I wouldn’t be able to train as hard and once the baby was born I wouldn’t be able to train for quite a while. With my husband’s job, there is no telling if I’d be able to train again or if we would move first (though I have tried to make my hubby promise not to love us with an 8 week old again).

So. That’s where I’m at with that.

On another note, some of the tweaks go against my old style. But some are exactly what I should have been doing there but somehow never translated to Taekwondo. For example, stances. In the front stance, most of the weight should be on the forward leg. Well in Taekwondo, (kukkiwon) there are waking stances. They are basically shorter forward stances. For some reason I’ve always treaded them as more of a back stance in regards to the weighty distribution. I didn’t even realize I was doing that. (Such a short stance as the regular stance seems strange to me to begin with). Also, waking straight instead of a crescent throws stances off as well. I think I’m doing better with them though because he didn’t comment on my stances tonight. I’ve been drilling them at home for two weeks since he brought it to my attention.

The other thing I struggle with is the Taekwondo side kick meaning something different than my old style side kick. Even though it’s called a side kick in Taekwondo, it’s much more similar to a back kick from my old style. I hear side kick and I just have this mental block and aim my foot like my old style side kick. I’ve been drilling this at home too but have not been as successful when doing the kick inside of Taekwondo drills.

So, that’s my long rambling post. I’ve been meaning to post for at least a week but life’s been busy. After being surprised. Y the option to double test, I decided it is high time I update my post.

I agree with @_Simon_ . I totally understand your concern with the upcoming pregnancy but if you rush through your belts, it will be hard to appreciate them and you will miss some quality training time. I feel like you should try to at least talk through a plan with your spouse to better know how to proceed. I would never, never tell a student to double test, period. If you were that far advanced you began at the wrong belt to start with. IMHO. Ask yourself (and your instructor) how it would reflect on your Dojang and the other students. It is a valid question. MA is a personal journey, and it isn't. Reflect on how you would look back at double testing if you have to greatly reduce your training time and your effect on your Dojang.
I hope you keep us updated. All the best for you and your family.

 

[Michele123]

Actually, you have a good point. After my first class, and due to my prior experience, my instructor didn’t want me to start at white belt. I, however, requested to start at white belt anyway. Maybe if I had been willing to start where he wanted me to, there wouldn’t be a need for any of this double testing. There was apparently, one other student in this association that seemed to catch on as quickly as I have. The head of the association had her double-test at every test. She will be testing for black belt next month.

Black belt has minimum time requirements built in though, so things will necessarily slow down at that point. Based purely on observation, a 1st defeee black belt here is about equivalent to a 3rd kyu in my old style, as far as how knowledgeable they are and how capable when teaching.

The other thing that occurs to me, if we did move before I was able to return following a pregnancy, I’d have to start over at white belt, even it was another kukkiwon school, unless I have a black belt. Something else to think about. I am torn. And honestly, flattered. But I think in the end I’ll ask my instructor what he thinks is best and defer to him.


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[Tony Dismukes]

if you rush through your belts, it will be hard to appreciate them and you will miss some quality training time

Whey would going up two belt ranks at once cause her to miss training time (quality or otherwise)?

 

[JR 137]

Whey would going up two belt ranks at once cause her to miss training time (quality or otherwise)?

I was thinking the same thing. I guess one could say that they’re not working on certain things for long enough, ie moving on from one kata to the next before the first one is done well.

I’m assuming TKD is cumulative in nature like karate is. Even if you double promote, you’re still going to be doing the “skipped” material later on down the road.

 

[pdg]

I was thinking the same thing. I guess one could say that they’re not working on certain things for long enough, ie moving on from one kata to the next before the first one is done well.

I’m assuming TKD is cumulative in nature like karate is. Even if you double promote, you’re still going to be doing the “skipped” material later on down the road.

From a pattern/kata perspective, how long should it take?

The longest it's taken me to 'learn' one is about an hour.

To perfect one? Well, that'll never happen...


And yeah, nothing should get skipped completely, you'll still do it.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I was thinking the same thing. I guess one could say that they’re not working on certain things for long enough, ie moving on from one kata to the next before the first one is done well.

I’m assuming TKD is cumulative in nature like karate is. Even if you double promote, you’re still going to be doing the “skipped” material later on down the road.

The idea of not training certain material because you "learned" it at an earlier belt level is pretty alien to me. As much as I enjoy learning new stuff, the bulk of my training is still focused on improving material I originally "learned" as a white belt.

 

[Jaeimseu]

The idea of not training certain material because you "learned" it at an earlier belt level is pretty alien to me. As much as I enjoy learning new stuff, the bulk of my training is still focused on improving material I originally "learned" as a white belt.

I think this often happens as a result of testing heavy curriculums. Each belt rank has a form, maybe one steps, self defense, drills, etc. that must be memorized. With a relatively short time between one rank and the next, lots of students don’t take time to review specific memorized material, though they would still be practicing certain skills that reappear from rank to rank.


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[Michele123]

I was thinking the same thing. I guess one could say that they’re not working on certain things for long enough, ie moving on from one kata to the next before the first one is done well.

I’m assuming TKD is cumulative in nature like karate is. Even if you double promote, you’re still going to be doing the “skipped” material later on down the road.

There will be no skipped material. In order to double test (different than a karate double promotion which I only had once back in the day) I first test for the rank immediately next from what I am. Assuming I pass, then I test all over again from the beginning for the rank above that one. I need to know all the material for both ranks and I need to know it well enough to pass the same way anyone else would. I just have two tests in one night. It’s actually exhausting. I’ve done it once so far and it is much easier doing one test at a time. By the time I got to my second test I had already given it my all for the first. I still passed but it was mostly muscle memory that got me through that second test. I honestly wish there would be an option to test just one rank after six weeks rather than two test every three months.

My personal workout at home includes me going through all my newest material daily and all my material since white belt 2x/week. I’d like to do more but there simply isn’t time for more with three little kids and a couple work-from-home jobs. However, I get the impression that few people practice much at all at home so this may be what is enabling me to appear to be able to double-test and picking up material “so fast.”


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[pdg]

With our testing each test is basically everything from the previous test, plus the new stuff at the end.

So each test is progressively longer.

My next test will be effectively 9 patterns in a row, a couple probably more than once (due to lower grades testing up to their level, then standing aside for the parts that don't apply to them or leaving when their section is done), plus the same sort of smattering of curriculum material from lower grades. Drills and partner work (everything up to grade being tested) plus sparring. Oh, and a theory test - on any "expected" knowledge from white belt on up.

We're marked on everything every time, so if I totally screw up the white belt stuff I could technically fail.


Oh yeah, and if I feel like it I could hang around for half an hour or so and do kickboxing grading on the same night... Umm, maybe

 

[dvcochran]

Whey would going up two belt ranks at once cause her to miss training time (quality or otherwise)?

Human nature. Besides she has a big load in front of her with a child on the way. Believe me if you have not experienced it, it changes things. For the better.