FEAR

[jobo]

You're talking about the sensation. I'm talking about the behavior. That's the part you're ignoring.

im talking about the physical reaction,, which dictates the behaviour, no physical reaction, no change in behaviour , slight physical reaction slight change in behaviour

you cant reverse engineer it so the behaviour changes the physical reaction, so for instance if you paralysed by fear, you cant unpalylise yourself and have the fear deminsh, you have to deminsh the fear before you can move

 

[jobo]

Physical reaction is not the only response to fear, there can be a mental reaction, for example freezing, it was not my intention to say everyone with a fear is weak, but it is a weakness of sorts.
Lets just say you get into an altercation in an open field, is your response going to be identical if you were in the same altercation, but at height, with a fear of heights, no its not.
Its a simple thing, know yourself completely, you can train all you want in conditioning, speed and strength training, but if you act or do not act in a certain way, because of a fear you have, its a weakness, I am merely saying, understand what and why you do the things you do. Everyone has some kind of fear its a natural thing, but not understanding the fear, or not learning to overcome the fear, and just put it to the back of your mind (surpress it), its going to resurface sooner or later, and usually when you really dont need it.

freezing is most certain a physical reaction, in as much as there is any way of separating physical and nervous systems reactions, you cant have one with out the other

my response would be far more determined on say a bridge, as the possibility of getting thrown off the side, means im literally fighting for my life and the Adrenalin response will be subsequently greater and i already had a raised Adrenalin response before any such confrontation, they will likely find they have just got in a fight with psychotic homicidal maniac

i would given a choice, not get into a fight on a bridge, so it effects my behaviour in that way, but then id try not to get into a fight in a rowing boat if i could, its also given the ratio of bridges to other areas of '' land'' statistically unlikely to occur so not something that i spend a great deal of time worrying about

 

[Gweilo]

I disagree, once your anxiety started your mind would race, your breath would deepen, your joints and muscles would have more tension, your timing and distance would be sligthly off, your technique would be slightly off, your strikes or movement would be off, this in turn would create more anxiety, more tension, more tightness, poorer technique, more mistakes. You see fear as being scared, it can be much more subtle, subtle in a way that is a gradual spiral, which manifests itself in you subconscious, which in future, leads to doubt, questioning oneself, nothing quite works, bad or off day, I cant do that stuff, low I can beleif, avoiding things you may find difficult through fear of failiure.
Its not all about cacking your pants.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

im talking about the physical reaction,, which dictates the behaviour, no physical reaction, no change in behaviour , slight physical reaction slight change in behaviour

you cant reverse engineer it so the behaviour changes the physical reaction, so for instance if you paralysed by fear, you cant unpalylise yourself and have the fear deminsh, you have to deminsh the fear before you can move

I’m aware what you are talking about. But you picked up a conversation about something else. So moving to your topic and claiming it’s the topic under discussion is dishonest.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I haven't read the full thread yet because it seems like one of the back and forth no one saying anything new things...but fear is a natural thing everyone experiences, not just the weak. There's even a theory out there that all behavior comes from a person's reaction/desire to prevent fear of some kind or another, although I don't fully subscribe to that theory.

Fear is the emotional response to an external stimuli. Anyone can (and at some point has) experienced this response. It could also be considered the physiological response; but the key point is that the fear is involuntary. The behavioral response is considered a reaction to fear, and that part can be controlled (the reaction to fear can include handling the involuntary portions, such as deep breathing to slow the heartrate/decrease panic).

So if I'm scared of spiders. The sudden distress I would feel upon seeing one is fear. The sudden increase in my heart rate, and the immediate nausea could be considered fear as well. An involuntary gasp or shriek could be considered the fear as well. Me choosing to calm myself down and then kill it would be a reaction to the fear, as would me continuing to freak out more, or call someone to kill it for me while I barricade myself in the bathroom.

A key point is: the involuntary reaction can be changed. Just not in the moment. So if I have a fear of spiders, I can force myself to be around spiders, look at pictures of spiders, talk through my fear. And the next time I see a sudden spider in my basement I will probably have a bit less distress. I continue doing the same things, and eventually, I see a spider suddenly, and I either kill it or direct it outside. That's a long term reaction to fear.

 

[Tez3]

At the moment with the just about everywhere 'lockdown' there are a people whose fear is very real, very palpable and they know that what they fear will happen. While you are all chatting about the hypothetical 'effects', what is and what isn't fear, try imagining living in fear and what you can do to help.
How Coronavirus Is Affecting Victims of Domestic Violence
Lockdowns around the world bring rise in domestic violence
'I'm in coronavirus lockdown with my abuser'
Domestic violence, child abuse cases could see a spike in US amid coronavirus lockdown, warn experts

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

At the moment with the just about everywhere 'lockdown' there are a people whose fear is very real, very palpable and they know that what they fear will happen. While you are all chatting about the hypothetical 'effects', what is and what isn't fear, try imagining living in fear and what you can do to help.
How Coronavirus Is Affecting Victims of Domestic Violence
Lockdowns around the world bring rise in domestic violence
'I'm in coronavirus lockdown with my abuser'
Domestic violence, child abuse cases could see a spike in US amid coronavirus lockdown, warn experts

Understanding what causes fear and how to handle it, and then teaching that to others is what you can do to help. Not something to look down on for 'not doing enough'.

 

[Tez3]

Understanding what causes fear and how to handle it, and then teaching that to others is what you can do to help. Not something to look down on for 'not doing enough'.

That is just talk. I'm sure all those who are being abused right now understand exactly what is causing the fear and are holding their breath in anticipation waiting to be told how to deal with their situation by people on the internet.

Faffing around trying to decide whether being afraid of failure is fear or anxiety isn't really teaching anyone anything is it. it's just people sat nice and comfy at their keyboards, the majority of people haven't had to deal with rare and immediate fear so how they think they can teach others to 'deal' with it' is largely academic.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

That is just talk. I'm sure all those who are being abused right now understand exactly what is causing the fear and are holding their breath in anticipation waiting to be told how to deal with their situation by people on the internet.

Faffing around trying to decide whether being afraid of failure is fear or anxiety isn't really teaching anyone anything is it. it's just people sat nice and comfy at their keyboards, the majority of people haven't had to deal with rare and immediate fear so how they think they can teach others to 'deal' with it' is largely academic.

Having spent years counseling and speaking to many of those who have been abused in the past, and have since learned to deal with their PTSD from it, they 100% are glad that people spend their time discussing fear and anxiety and the appropriate ways to handle it. And they are grateful when people understand their fear, and treat them as people, rather than assuming they have moral weaknesses due to their fear. Which comes from educating the general public about fear.

And they don't really care if people are comfortable while being educated, or discussing it in general. They're not wishing those people have to go through the abuse that they went through. They're just hoping those people learn what fear is, and understand how people react to it.

They also don't feel that the people discussing it or learning about it should be shamed for not doing more. That's literally what they want to happen.

Obviously the people going through it are different. In that they theoretically want us to be helping them out of it. But that's not even entirely true on its own. So get off your high horse and let people discuss, and by discussing, learn. Or stay closed-minded, and harm those who are recovering from abuse. Your choice.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Having spent years counseling and speaking to many of those who have been abused in the past, and have since learned to deal with their PTSD from it, they 100% are glad that people spend their time discussing fear and anxiety and the appropriate ways to handle it. And they are grateful when people understand their fear, and treat them as people, rather than assuming they have moral weaknesses due to their fear. Which comes from educating the general public about fear.

And they don't really care if people are comfortable while being educated, or discussing it in general. They're not wishing those people have to go through the abuse that they went through. They're just hoping those people learn what fear is, and understand how people react to it.

They also don't feel that the people discussing it or learning about it should be shamed for not doing more. That's literally what they want to happen.

Obviously the people going through it are different. In that they theoretically want us to be helping them out of it. But that's not even entirely true on its own. So get off your high horse and let people discuss, and by discussing, learn. Or stay closed-minded, and harm those who are recovering from abuse. Your choice.

I should clarify, I counsel and speak with both those who are in the midst of abuse, those who have left and are struggling with it, and those who are recovering from it. The statement above is referring to those recovering from it. Those in the midst of it are angry at most other people, no matter what they're doing or not doing to help. Those who have left really don't give a crap what others are talking about-they're pretty much entirely focused on themselves and their situation.

 

[Tez3]

So get off your high horse and let people discuss, and by discussing, learn. Or stay closed-minded, and harm those who are recovering from abuse. Your choice.

Really? so you didn't find the posturing on here in the slightest bit unhelpful, when people are bickering about whether it's 'fear' or 'anxiety'? You didn't think it was unhelpful when people aren't actually discussing 'fear' but discussing whether one should be be ashamed at being scared of heights or not?
Point out where actually useful advice was being given, point out actual tactics for dealing with fear instead of where people are just having a go at each other as you are me. People aren't 'discussing' on here they are carrying on the usual tit for tat they usually do and a lot of it is posturing, 'oh I don't feel fear' sort of rubbish.

I haven't read the full thread yet because it seems like one of the back and forth no one saying anything new things.

You are having a go at me for saying the same thing you are and yet you haven't even read the whole thread, so you are just attacking me for the sake of it.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Point out where actually useful advice was being given, point out actual tactics for dealing with fear instead of where people are just having a go at each other as you are me. People aren't 'discussing' on here they are carrying on the usual tit for tat they usually do and a lot of it is posturing, 'oh I don't feel fear' sort of rubbish.

Maybe most folks on this thread aren't looking to dispense specific advice, nor sharing specific tactics. They're discussing things, because they can.

I get it that you wish more were done. I agree. But that doesn't invalidate folks' discussions, just beause they get to the margin of that thing and yet aren't that thing.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I had read the thread after my initial post, when i saw your statement. Your post prompted me to read it, and reading through prompted my response.

 

[Tez3]

Maybe most folks on this thread aren't looking to dispense specific advice, nor sharing specific tactics. They're discussing things, because they can.

I get it that you wish more were done. I agree. But that doesn't invalidate folks' discussions, just beause they get to the margin of that thing and yet aren't that thing.

and the bickering? that's valid?
I have one person saying that it is all valid because posters are very seriously working on how to instruct people on how to cope with fear and now you are saying that posters aren't they are just 'discussing'. Well which is it? posturing for the most part or in depth discussion to cope with fear? people all over the world are living in fear at this very moment, and yet all that is offered here is what exactly? No one is learning anything as has been posited, just some getting angry at others, all the usual subjects. It's not that I wish 'more that was done', what I wish is that the discussion would stop being so schoolboyish.

I had read the thread after my initial post, when i saw your statement. Your post prompted me to read it, and reading through prompted my response.

of course you did. it's fine for you to post up that you thought it didn't do any good, without reading it, but I'm not allowed to criticise it so you made a personal attack on me instead of disagreeing, then you post up how qualified you are to do that as if any other view is invalid. If you were that qualified you'd understand my frustration at the thread instead of voicing your dislike of me.