Fake black belts

[Oily Dragon]

I've now watched & practised the below Video. I am now a Sifu of Slapping Gung Fu. Please ring for Private training

You should sell an online course in the art for $1,000 and claim you learned it in person from these dudes.

Lol. Can we keep this thread a little lighthearted considering the dire subject matter. There's no need to toss around accusations here...no frauds here right?

 

[Jimmythebull]

Actually you could just make up your own school of Gung Fu as it's a loose term.
A bit of this & that that I learned, copy a Tiger & dragon of a chinese menu. Basta..Grand Master Lok bong wong signed it.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Actually you could just make up your own school of Gung Fu as it's a loose term.
A bit of this & that that I learned, copy a Tiger & dragon of a chinese menu. Basta..Grand Master Lok bong wong signed it.

The gung fu school of supreme ultimate dishwashing. Break one and see what happens.

 

[Oily Dragon]

The gung fu school of supreme ultimate dishwashing. Break one and see what happens.

Dishwashing is the only thing I love more than cooking.

That's how you can spot the best chefs. They can make a huge mess, but don't need a cleanup crew.

 

[tkdroamer]

OK but does this not water down the original techniques ? I get that there are some 3rd dans with a big belly but the lower grades need to learn strict techniques for future examinations, or at least in my world. This is where it gets murky... what i have noticed is in some dojos the more fit 1st dans do most of the ground teachings.

Usually, not at all. I would say there are ample cases where modification has improved the overall effectiveness of a movement. Some of this is because movements have been figured out or counters have been created to make them less effective.
I was never talking about a 3rd Dan with a "big belly". Nor was I talking about the necessary repetition of a color belt.

 

[drop bear]

Closer to "black belts" and other ranks don't really do a good job of determining if a random person meets your definition of a "good martial artist." Your definition of a good martial artist is heavily dependent on your definition of whether or not they can "fight." Which is, as we discussed before, pretty narrowly defined.

Not really. If it was say an XMA guy it would be how good his acro is.

Pretty much what you say you can teach. You should be able to teach

 

[Jimmythebull]

Usually, not at all. I would say there are ample cases where modification has improved the overall effectiveness of a movement. Some of this is because movements have been figured out or counters have been created to make them less effective

Can you give example. Are you talking about people making a new style?

 

[Jimmythebull]

Personal creativity. Anatomy plays a part in this.

this is why i mentioned a big belly. I see overweight black belts( more so in the states ) who can´t do techniques like a young fitter man so their movements are sometimes adapted for their lack of mobility & fitness.
This guys puts it perfectly..

 

[tkdroamer]

this is why i mentioned a big belly. I see overweight black belts( more so in the states ) who can´t do techniques like a young fitter man so their movements are sometimes adapted for their lack of mobility & fitness.
This guys puts it perfectly..

I have seen the first video before. She was struggling. But comparing these two videos and the people in them is about as far apart as you can get. One appears to be an average/casual possible beginner. The other, an elite athlete. It is just not a logical comparison. I am sure you can find plenty of videos with 'overweight' black belts holding their own.
The lady in the first video does appear bad, maybe very bad but I do not have enough data to make that decision and I am not going to cherry-pick a video to try and make a point. We have no idea what the outcome of that testing or competition was nor the ladies background or how much she may have improved.

About 25 years ago I had an adult male (we will call him Jim) start classes. He is 6'5 and at the time weighed north of 400lbs. Over the course of 2-years he shed over 100lbs with no other lifestyle changes. Jim always lived a healthy lifestyle as far as food and consumption and had grown up in an active environment. Had you seen him working or been around him for any length of time before starting classes, you would not have thought of him as overweight, just very big and stocky. And strong.
Fast forward 2-years, Jim is still training and doing great. But Jim was always very stiff and never had a great stretch. Most of his movements look different, but man oh man are they strong and effective. His form and patterns are technically correct, but they look different since, in reality, everything Jim does looks different given his size.
Jim moved slower than average through the Gup belts of his own choice. He is a bit of a perfectionist. If you saw him today, (possessive) you may think he is not proficient, but you could not be farther from the truth.

Sometimes a visual like the video you cherrypicked just does not tell the story.

 

[tkdroamer]

Can you give example. Are you talking about people making a new style?,

No, not at all. Think of it this way. We are not lemmings. We all have a different anatomy, size, shape, and motion. We are going to look and do things differently. If this were not true, if everyone looked and did everything exactly the same, how would a winner be determined at a tournament. There are tangible and intangible factors to be considered.
One of the hardest things for a good competition judge or instructor to do is process what they see and evaluate it's worth.
I have seen the comparison many times. My GM will take two random black belts of the same size and build and runs them through drills and movements. He will go into great detail about how each person is doing the movements correct (proof via pressure-testing), then question the class on why they look different. Lots of conjecture but few definitive answers.

 

[Jimmythebull]

About 25 years ago I had an adult male (we will call him Jim) start classes. He is 6'5 and at the time weighed north of 400lbs. Over the course of 2-years he shed over 100lbs with no other lifestyle changes. Jim always lived a healthy lifestyle as far as food and consumption and had grown up in an active environment. Had you seen him working or been around him for any length of time before starting classes, you would not have thought of him as overweight, just very big and stocky. And strong.
Fast forward 2-years, Jim is still training and doing great. But Jim was always very stiff and never had a great stretch. Most of his movements look different, but man oh man are they strong and effective. His form and patterns are technically correct, but they look different since, in reality, everything Jim does looks different given his size.
Jim moved slower than average through the Gup belts of his own choice. He is a bit of a perfectionist. If you saw him today, (possessive) you may think he is not proficient, but you could not be farther from the truth.

this story is cool bro but not really relevant is it. I am talking about a black belt teaching a class & commenting on your comment which was .. no where did i mention anyone just joining a class who is overweight.

Personal creativity. Anatomy plays a part in this.

 

[tkdroamer]

this story is cool bro but not really relevant is it. I am talking about a black belt teaching a class & commenting on your comment which was .. no where did i mention anyone just joining a class who is overweight.

Then you have totally lost me on the point you are trying to make.

 

[Jimmythebull]

We all have a different anatomy, size, shape, and motion.

exactly so if i am 158 Lbs & in good condition & you are say 313 lbs who will move better?

 

[Jimmythebull]

Then you have totally lost me on the point you are trying to make.

maybe read it again.

 

[tkdroamer]

exactly so if i am 158 Lbs & in good condition & you are say 313 lbs who will move better?

Totally situational and subjective. Your 158lb high kick may not mean dick to the 313-pounder. Conversely, the 313-pounders highest kick, a rib kick, may end you. At the end of it all, 'move better' means nothing.

 

[Jimmythebull]

Totally situational and subjective. Your 158lb high kick may not mean dick to the 313-pounder. Conversely, the 313-pounders highest kick, a rib kick, may end you. At the end of it all, 'move better' means nothing.

Conclusion​

Young handball players categorized as obese according to %BF exhibited lower scores in basic physical performance tests. In more detail, increased %BF values seemed to negatively impact running performance, vertical jump, and aerobic capacity after adjusting for body height and mass.

Frontiers | The Associations Between Physical Performance and Anthropometric Characteristics in Obese and Non-obese Schoolchild Handball Players

This study investigated the relationship of body fat and fitness measures in schoolchild handball players. Twenty-eight young male handball players from hand...

www.frontiersin.org

 

[tkdroamer]

Conclusion​

Young handball players categorized as obese according to %BF exhibited lower scores in basic physical performance tests. In more detail, increased %BF values seemed to negatively impact running performance, vertical jump, and aerobic capacity after adjusting for body height and mass.

Frontiers | The Associations Between Physical Performance and Anthropometric Characteristics in Obese and Non-obese Schoolchild Handball Players

This study investigated the relationship of body fat and fitness measures in schoolchild handball players. Twenty-eight young male handball players from hand...

www.frontiersin.org

Not surprised at all. But again, you are cherry-picking. You are taking one static set of scoring rules and trying to apply them across the whole board. In a vacuum, you can make number look any way you want. But they just do not tell the whole story.
For example, when considering a person's competitive ability or self-defense prowess, why would I care if their handball performance is different?
See what I did there? Why is weight such an end all, be all, big deal?

 

[Jimmythebull]

you are cherry-picking

no ..c´mon man

 

[Jimmythebull]

See what I did there?

no not at all, just talking waffle. talking your way out of a discussion you know i´m correct.

 

[Jimmythebull]

Why is weight such an end all, be all, big deal?

athletic abilities are impaired look at any fat fighter & see how they gas out. now a big fat blob might throw a lucky punch but a lighter fitter athlete will in my opinion 99% win.
be honest if you walk into a new dojo (and this is the thread subject) & the "Master" looks like a bullfrog what will be your first thoughts? be honest.