Where did you get from that post that Judo is a watered down version of any of those?
Elite female judo vs untrained male
- Thread starter Lalulalang
- Start date
Ironbear24
Senior Master
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2015
- Messages
- 2,103
- Reaction score
- 482
And in UFC you don't have to worry about awareness of one's surroundings, you don't have to worry about reading a crowd, you'll never have to worry about the possibility of a weapon being pulled on you. So no "UFC" is not good for self defense.
If you take up traditional Jujitsu then you would be doing a lot of cooperative regiments similar to a two person Kata, you would be learning about weapons as well many flourishy pleasing to the eye techniques, Judo removed that and fixated on only techniques that work on someone fighting against you.
Judo is watered down in the sense of it removed what wasn't applicable to fighting outside of feudal Japan.
Judo teach you awareness of surroundings?
If one is choosing what to learn, why not BJJ or wrestling that is complete and proved to be effective?
Read who I reply to.
Ironbear24
Senior Master
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2015
- Messages
- 2,103
- Reaction score
- 482
That depends on the kind of Judo you are learning. If it is strictly Olympic Judo which is IJF then no it wouldn't. If it is Kodokan Judo then that is more self defense oriented.
Ironbear24
Senior Master
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2015
- Messages
- 2,103
- Reaction score
- 482
Exactly how are BJJ and Wrestling "Complete?" They both lack many useful techniques. Tell me how well a wrestler can throw a spinning back kick. How well can a jujitsero throw a straight?
You should look up the history of the BJJ move: the Kimura. BJJ calls a reverse ude-garami, a Kimura, in respect for the Judo player named Masahiko Kimura. Kimura took a challenge match with Helio Gracie (the founder of BJJ) and after throwing him repeatedly, submitted him with a reverse ude-garami, breaking Helio's arm. So which one is effective?
My answer is both. Its down to the fighter.
If you want to learn BJJ or wrestling, great. Both are very effective, if used correctly. In both, you will need to learn to force the other guy into fighting a grappling game. Maia, in the first video I showed in this thread is exactly that, a champion BJJ fighter. However, he could not force Silva into a grappling game... so his BJJ could not be used. Yes, it is possible for to use BJJ against a striker, but you need to force the fight you want.
All the arts being discussed here, have been used with great success in full contact competition inside their own arts and outside in MMA and in real street fights. What makes the outcome of each of these successful or not, is the fighters involved.
I think UFC and all MMA people will disagree with you. Can judo throw a spin back kick or straight?
Yes, BJJ and wrestling is proven in the Octagon for years. They are not perfect, that's why MMA combine Tae Kwon Do kicks, boxing hands, wrestling and BJJ together.
Ironbear24
Senior Master
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2015
- Messages
- 2,103
- Reaction score
- 482
I never said Judo is a complete art. You however said BJJ is.
Doc
Senior Master
To use the term, "real fight" and judoka would seem to be intellectually incongruent. Although essentially anything can be converted to some type of martial activity, Judo itself by design is not a fighting art persé and therefore is immediately handicapped by its own creative purposes. Designed as a "sporting activity" that begins any resemblance of combat with adversaries grabbing each other's tops or clothes and then attempting to throw and leverage your opponent to the ground for points and/or "pins," would seem to belie a "street fight" tendency to begin with some type of striking. Adding to the equation the question of female versus male exacerbates the problem because of differences in body mass. Probably more than any other martial activity judo recognizes the discrepancies in weight between opponents in general and particularly between males and females. Its creator, Jiguro Kano, recognized that and because advancement requires "randori" or Judo sparring, he purposely did several things. He created the popular belt ranking system used by most today that separated participants by skill level. But he went further as well and divided them into general weight classes, and separated males from females for a reason. Body mass matters in Judo. I'm reminded of a story I read in Black Belt Magazine back in the sixties. There was a famous Judo Master who had a young student who outweighed him by over 100 pounds. The master was very honest when asked the question, "how do you randori him?" He essentially said, "I can't do anything. I can't sweep him, I can't throw him. All he does is when we clinch he just falls down and I'm pinned. He doesn't have to do much of anything." I think somewhere in there lies the answer to a not so well thought out question with too many variables that fall in the man's favor to be answered seriously.
I don't think it's as stark a line as all that. The OP was stated as an elite female Judoka vs. an untrained male of below-average weight (150 lbs., so 25 lbs. less than me, and I'm not a big guy). That 45lbs. difference is an advantage, but is likley offset by the Judoka's experience, which almost certainly includes randori against men bigger than her. Meanwhile, the untrained guy almost certainly has no experience working against a competent Judoka, so hasn't any functional grappling defense if she gets inside.
I did. None of that reply indicated judo was a watered down version of any of those arts (and actually only mentioned one of the arts).
Read one more time.
Much more complete, watch Royce Gracie. Watch the first year or two of UFC, dominated by BJJ and wrestling. They really didn't strike much. Took people a long time to solve the ground game puzzle.
MrBigglesworth
Yellow Belt
- Joined
- May 7, 2009
- Messages
- 46
- Reaction score
- 31
Hey kid, get off your phone and pay attention to the teacher.
105 pounds lol?
idk...I mean Ronda Rousey is around 130 and she’d def beat most men’s asses unless they were trained
No matter how many times he reads it, it won't say something it doesn't say.
Ironbear24
Senior Master
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2015
- Messages
- 2,103
- Reaction score
- 482
Which again isn't self defense.
That had little to do with bjj and more of the fact that the gracies had been involved in vale tudo circuits for years which was pretty much mma at the time. Those strikers went against a grappler who had experience dealing with both strikers and grapplers.
If you have a person who has only done sport bjj I wouldn't count on them faring well against an experienced boxer or kickboxer, and as someone had already stated to you; it was judoka who destroyed the grand father (hello gracie) of bjj in a match that he himself set all the rules for.
Last edited:
I did. Still not seeing it. Can you point where he said it in the post you replied to?
Training matters
size matters - see weight categories / bands / etc
...
I have told many a person who wished to engage me, "Be careful, once you knock me out, I could still fall on you and hurt you."
Being 6'3"+ (192 cm) and about 345 lbs (156.5 kg)
...
Considering the above:
It really all depends upon that moment.
Is one having a bad physical or mental day or emotional day?
Just enough to get them off their timing.
Is the other person having a great day and just everything falls into place for them?
...
It depends
size matters - see weight categories / bands / etc
...
I have told many a person who wished to engage me, "Be careful, once you knock me out, I could still fall on you and hurt you."
Being 6'3"+ (192 cm) and about 345 lbs (156.5 kg)
...
Considering the above:
It really all depends upon that moment.
Is one having a bad physical or mental day or emotional day?
Just enough to get them off their timing.
Is the other person having a great day and just everything falls into place for them?
...
It depends
Similar threads
Latest Discussions
-
-
-
Aging, health issues and Martial Arts. - Martial Journal- Latest: Kung Fu Wang
-
-
