Dojo Etiquette

[isshinryuronin]

It's been a while since this topic has been a full thread and most of us weren't around then, but the subject of bowing has come up and it made me consider TMA dojo etiquette in general and specific terms.

I see two general purposes of etiquette - safety and respect to others, the dojo and the art itself. Noob BrandonH45 mentioned bowing to an empty dojo floor. I bow just walking thru the front door, again when stepping onto the workout floor (empty or occupied), and of course at the start of class, and once again when facing off with another for drill or sparring. Each of these four bows denotes escalating levels of etiquette.

Walking into the dojo I bow to acknowledge and respect that it's a place of learning and to deport myself accordingly.

Stepping onto the floor we bow to others, if any, acknowledging their presence and their dedication to the art. But also, it's where punches and kicks and perhaps swords may be flying around - a higher level of attention is needed and bowing serves to remind us that a new mindset must be acquired. Even if the floor is empty, when you step onto it it's to practice the art, a serious endeavor requiring a serious mind.

When class starts. we mutually bow to the instructor indicating we respect his knowledge and we're in a mind set to learn. (We may also bow to the founder's photo, reminding us of his place in our lineage and in whose footsteps we follow.) Again, limbs and weapons will be flying around for sure, and our awareness must be ratchetted up another notch.

And bowing to our drill/sparring opponent indicates an even higher level of danger and required awareness and our commitment to keep each other reasonably safe. So, from walking in the front door to fighting someone, a progressively more disciplined mindset is needed. Bowing can serve as a mnemonic device to remind us of this at each step of the way.

TMA helps develop a warrior mind. Musashi I think emphasized the need to pay attention to details. Adhering to strict etiquette develops a mindfulness and mental discipline that, IMO, is conducive to fully developing the attributes of TMA. For an old school guy, etiquette is not just empty ritual.

 

[_Simon_]

Yes well said, I feel the same. And for sure, each bow is filled with a different sentiment

 

[Tony Dismukes]

It's interesting. BJJ doesn't have the same tradition of bowing onto the mat. (For the most part. Some gyms may do it, but it's not standard.)

But because I've spent enough years in the past training in arts where it was the norm, I still instinctively bow the first time I step onto the mat each day. My coach does the same. But I think we're probably the only two in the gym who do that.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

It's interesting. BJJ doesn't have the same tradition of bowing onto the mat. (For the most part. Some gyms may do it, but it's not standard.)

But because I've spent enough years in the past training in arts where it was the norm, I still instinctively bow the first time I step onto the mat each day. My coach does the same. But I think we're probably the only two in the gym who do that.

I do the same. If it's a mat, whether its an asian tma, kali, muay thai or something else, I'm bowing. If no one else does I just keep it to a short/small bow, but I always feel like I should to pay respect to the space.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Bowing
early to mid 70s
- Jiujitsu I don't honestly remember, but it is likely. I do know we bowed to each other before we started kicking, punching and throwing each other around
- TKD, maybe, again we bowed before kicking the living daylights out of each other
- Valari, I think we did. But I was not there long, it annoyed me

fast forward
- First CMA Shifu, no bowing
- Traditional Taijiquan Shifu, no bowing. Actually some of his new students kind of forces it on him, but he was never comfortable with it
- Wing Chun Guans
1) no
2) no
3) yes (current)
- JKD schools, I think one had bowing to the teacher
- The place I train push hands, they don't, but I do,,,, I know what you are supposed to do, and I do it if asked, or not told. I do not, generally, if told it is not necessary

Daughter's old Aikido dojo, yes, most definitely

 

[Simfers]

Yeah, I'm in the same boat as Tony when I do BJJ (currently my primary art). I bow when I first get on the mat, and there are a lot of us who do that, and when I greet people before class I'll usually throw in a quick bow along with the handshake. Neither of these are mandated, but they come naturally. There's no line-up at the start, so no bowing in, we just get straight into it, but we line-up and bow at the end. Hand slap and fist-bump before a roll, handshake and hug after.

If I'm visiting another school (like last year, I went to give a small seminar at a karate school), I'll bow when I get in the room and then make the rounds and bow to every black belt, starting with the visibly higher ones. It's their space, after all. Unless I get stopped to chat at every one of them, then time might run out, LOL. That's from TKD, it was part of the dojang etiquette where I trained.

After that I'll follow the school's lead.

 

[Buka]

I love this thread.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Here's a few specific etiquette expectations (enforced) at my dojos that may/may not have been common in others:

No head cover inside the doors.
If late and missed bowing at the start of class, must wait at floor's edge until recognized and bowed in by sensei.
No stepping in between sensei and class.

Failure to observe these and other expectations resulted in having to firmly beat yourself over the head with a bamboo shinai 3-5 times.

Just joking about the last one. Anything unique at your dojo?

 

[Holmejr]

Funny this is brought up. Our class, since I started 7 years ago, has been rather informal. No bow, no salute. Don’t know why our teacher choose this mindset. Recently, we uncovered around 8 VHR tapes of old classes ran by GM Alcuizar (deceased), with our teacher as a senior student. We were surprised how formal the class were. Proper dress, proper saluting, class doing drills in unison and calling out numbers. I lean toward formality, believing it creates unity, respect and disciplined military type mindset. I believe student progress more evenly and better in a focused environment. I think that after watching those videos our class will follow suit. Thanks for bringing this up.

 

[Haruhiko]

It's been a while since this topic has been a full thread and most of us weren't around then, but the subject of bowing has come up and it made me consider TMA dojo etiquette in general and specific terms.

I see two general purposes of etiquette - safety and respect to others, the dojo and the art itself. Noob BrandonH45 mentioned bowing to an empty dojo floor. I bow just walking thru the front door, again when stepping onto the workout floor (empty or occupied), and of course at the start of class, and once again when facing off with another for drill or sparring. Each of these four bows denotes escalating levels of etiquette.

Walking into the dojo I bow to acknowledge and respect that it's a place of learning and to deport myself accordingly.

Stepping onto the floor we bow to others, if any, acknowledging their presence and their dedication to the art. But also, it's where punches and kicks and perhaps swords may be flying around - a higher level of attention is needed and bowing serves to remind us that a new mindset must be acquired. Even if the floor is empty, when you step onto it it's to practice the art, a serious endeavor requiring a serious mind.

When class starts. we mutually bow to the instructor indicating we respect his knowledge and we're in a mind set to learn. (We may also bow to the founder's photo, reminding us of his place in our lineage and in whose footsteps we follow.) Again, limbs and weapons will be flying around for sure, and our awareness must be ratchetted up another notch.

And bowing to our drill/sparring opponent indicates an even higher level of danger and required awareness and our commitment to keep each other reasonably safe. So, from walking in the front door to fighting someone, a progressively more disciplined mindset is needed. Bowing can serve as a mnemonic device to remind us of this at each step of the way.

TMA helps develop a warrior mind. Musashi I think emphasized the need to pay attention to details. Adhering to strict etiquette develops a mindfulness and mental discipline that, IMO, is conducive to fully developing the attributes of TMA. For an old school guy, etiquette is not just empty ritual.

There's basic respect (e.g. bowing to your partner in paired kata, or sensei), reihō (formal and expected etiquette, including bowing, at appropriate times).

I bow, usually in this order:

1. Entering and announcing myself to the dojo
1A. Meeting/fatewelling a new member of the dojo
2. Entering or leaving the dojo dais /mat / floor (usually for water, etc)
3. Excusing myself if another class is held within the same dojo during mine, and I need to pass by members to join my cohort
4. Formal reihō with students and sensei
5. Before and after kata (informal reihō)
5A. After receiving correction from sensei, especially if the correction took time
6. Closing reihō with students and sensei
7. Leaving the dojo, announcing that I will return

I like bowing.

 

[Same Trick]

TMA helps develop a warrior mind. Musashi I think emphasized the need to pay attention to details. Adhering to strict etiquette develops a mindfulness and mental discipline that, IMO, is conducive to fully developing the attributes of TMA. For an old school guy, etiquette is not just empty ritual.

wasn’t Musashi kind of breaking rules, hiding and jumping down from a tree smashing and crushing his would be dueling opponent head, deliberately showing up late for duels just to annoy his opponents into unstable mind, using two swords instead of one ….?

 

[drop bear]

It's interesting. BJJ doesn't have the same tradition of bowing onto the mat. (For the most part. Some gyms may do it, but it's not standard.)

But because I've spent enough years in the past training in arts where it was the norm, I still instinctively bow the first time I step onto the mat each day. My coach does the same. But I think we're probably the only two in the gym who do that.

I do a walkout.

Music, the whole bit.

 

[Hyoho]

It's been a while since this topic has been a full thread and most of us weren't around then, but the subject of bowing has come up and it made me consider TMA dojo etiquette in general and specific terms.

I see two general purposes of etiquette - safety and respect to others, the dojo and the art itself. Noob BrandonH45 mentioned bowing to an empty dojo floor. I bow just walking thru the front door, again when stepping onto the workout floor (empty or occupied), and of course at the start of class, and once again when facing off with another for drill or sparring. Each of these four bows denotes escalating levels of etiquette.

Walking into the dojo I bow to acknowledge and respect that it's a place of learning and to deport myself accordingly.

Stepping onto the floor we bow to others, if any, acknowledging their presence and their dedication to the art. But also, it's where punches and kicks and perhaps swords may be flying around - a higher level of attention is needed and bowing serves to remind us that a new mindset must be acquired. Even if the floor is empty, when you step onto it it's to practice the art, a serious endeavor requiring a serious mind.

When class starts. we mutually bow to the instructor indicating we respect his knowledge and we're in a mind set to learn. (We may also bow to the founder's photo, reminding us of his place in our lineage and in whose footsteps we follow.) Again, limbs and weapons will be flying around for sure, and our awareness must be ratchetted up another notch.

And bowing to our drill/sparring opponent indicates an even higher level of danger and required awareness and our commitment to keep each other reasonably safe. So, from walking in the front door to fighting someone, a progressively more disciplined mindset is needed. Bowing can serve as a mnemonic device to remind us of this at each step of the way.

TMA helps develop a warrior mind. Musashi I think emphasized the need to pay attention to details. Adhering to strict etiquette develops a mindfulness and mental discipline that, IMO, is conducive to fully developing the attributes of TMA. For an old school guy, etiquette is not just empty ritual.

I used to study reiho under Ogasawara Kiyotada. The 31st soke of the ryu. It was under the instruction of my Soke Imai Masayuki Nobukatsu 10th head of HNIR. As our founder Miyamoto Musashi and his family were inexorably linked with the Ogasawara family as retainers it seemed fitting that we do the reiho our founder had done. The system of bowing is very detailed both sitting and standing. The basic system that was taught to the general public of Japan. The most simplified has to be just to lean forward a little in seiza and touch the ground with your extended thumb at the front side of the body. On another note I head the Kage Ryu school of swordsmanship. There is NO etiquette! We do it such as bowing towards each other. But this is simply because its a Japanese tradition and not part of our Ryu. Personally do I bow? Yes, for most of my life living in Japan. And still now in the dojo. I even bow when talking to Japanese people on the telephone!

 

[jks9199]

Many of those rituals are more than mere courtesy or empty rituals. For example, pausing before stepping into the training area, and especially, waiting for acknowledgement and permission before entering an active training area ensures that it is safe for you to enter. Rush onto the mats inattentively, and you may well find yourself in the path of a weapon or strike or thrown fellow student... That could be bad. Bowing before engaging in a training activity like sparring or partner drills ensure that both people are ready and prepared for the action.

 

[Buka]

I’m big on dojo etiquette, always have been, always will be.

I especially enjoy the etiquettes of other schools. I follow their etiquette to a T.
It makes my visit and training in someone else’s dojo all the more enjoyable.

We bow always looking at the other person in the eye. But follow other dojo bowing etiquette the way they do it.

I always encouraged my students to train in other dojos if they were invited. I had to teach them how follow their etiquettes as well.

EDIT - Just wanted to add this. To me, how they do things in a Jits school, a boxing gym or an MMA gym, is their etiquette and should be followed the same way as every other training hall.