Does Steven Seagal still teach Aikido?

[Ryback]

Ok I read the article

I dunno which school he trained in

I do take issue that it only advanced Aikido that the hands cut like a sword that ain't true imo

most masters in TJMA are quiet and not loud and brash so that is no surprise, actually any masters should be that way.

I'm not following what he means by the sword strike to the head face that no one can see coming.

Learning to cut is kinda a prerequisite of any sword art and learning the cut to the head well you will in Aikido know that as men uchi or the side cut to the head as shomen uchi so that is no surprise or major difficulty and it is a basic ok it can take a life time to perfect to cut but that could be as he is alluding to zen there but like in Aikido you could spend a lifetime only trying to perfect ikkyo so really no difference

I still don't get the Kenjutsu deflecting hand techs you referred to but there again i we knew the school then we could all go have a look at it's curriculum and see

He has not really said anything in that article that is not other than common knowledge really and the bit about being refused to be taught well some JTMA schools do require a letter of introduction but as he does not state the school and there are no clues unless you know.

The draw and cut he refers to is kinda basic to any school of iai or batto do/jutsu (an I am not gonna start an argument over the different meaning between iai and batto do/jutsu's I am not well enough verse to do that I think I know but I probably don't lol) again depending on the school if they taught that some do some don't, technically it is a different discipline. Kenjutsu can be an umberella term use for all Japanese sword arts (again it not tech correct imo but it is used) so until you know what school he studied it not easy to say.

I still really don't get the kenjutsu sword deflects at all

The Bokken is used in Aikido as a way and method of teaching the thinking that the hands move in a fashion like holding a sword and cutting and the footwork too have a peak at Nishio style of Aikido and I think he was a deshi of Ueshiba but it may have been the second doshu as Ueshiba was in Iwama again by then an I don't know if Nishio was or was just purely at the Aikikai Hombu. I do know he studied many arts to fairly high ranks and he di create his own form off iaido, as I said take a peak as that style of Aikido uses the bokken a lot

If I understand well I think what Lenny means about the Ken-jutsu hand deflections is that it is similar with the way you deflect the sword in Kumi tachi techniques...
When someone thrust with the bokken we do not block it but we deflect it slightly using the side of the sword, not the cutting edge of the blade.
If we deflect a tsuki using our sword on the left side of the opponent's blade (as we face him) and we guide the deflection with our left hand it translates to the Kiri-age hand deflection in tai-jutsu where we deflect a strike by sweeping it with our palm.
If we deflect a tsuki using our sword on the left side of the opponent's blade (as we face him) this time guiding the deflection with our right hand, it translates to the Suri-age hand deflection, where we deflect a strike by sweeping it with the back of our hand.
If we use a Kiri-gaeshi technique to deflect a Shomen Uchi cut with the sword, it translates to the Uke Nagaeshi, the "collapsing" hand deflection in tai-jutsu where we make positive contact with the striking arm of the opponent, deliberately collapsing using the elbow to deflect and enter to the inside, past beyond his arms rendering him unable to resist an Attemi or technique since he now has nothing to block you with...
Well, I know it's confusing, too hard to explain verbally but I hope I offered my humble contribution to the discussion...

 

[now disabled]

If I understand well I think what Lenny means about the Ken-jutsu hand deflections is that it is similar with the way you deflect the sword in Kumi tachi techniques...
When someone thrust with the bokken we do not block it but we deflect it slightly using the side of the sword, not the cutting edge of the blade.
If we deflect a tsuki using our sword on the left side of the opponent's blade (as we face him) and we guide the deflection with our left hand it translates to the Kiri-age hand deflection in tai-jutsu where we deflect a strike by sweeping it with our palm.
If we deflect a tsuki using our sword on the left side of the opponent's blade (as we face him) this time guiding the deflection with our right hand, it translates to the Suri-age hand deflection, where we deflect a strike by sweeping it with the back of our hand.
If we use a Kiri-gaeshi technique to deflect a Shomen Uchi cut with the sword, it translates to the Uke Nagaeshi, the "collapsing" hand deflection in tai-jutsu where we make positive contact with the striking arm of the opponent, deliberately collapsing using the elbow to deflect and enter to the inside, past beyond his arms rendering him unable to resist an Attemi or technique since he now has nothing to block you with...
Well, I know it's confusing, too hard to explain verbally but I hope I offered my humble contribution to the discussion...

is all part of Aikido

Lenny sly is just using a word as a marketing thing

 

[Ryback]

is all part of Aikido

Lenny sly is just using a word as a marketing thing

Sure it's all part of Aikido, no doubt about it!! Lenny is usually trying to create a hype about him and most of this is marketing but I think he was also trying to explain how hand deflections have their roots to sword practice...
Steven Seagal by the way has studied a Ken-jutsu ryu and his has a black belt degree. I don't remember the name of the ryu but his teacher was the one who introduced him to Toshiro Mifune in order for Seagal Sensei to be martial arts coordinator in the film "the challenge".
At Mifune's reluctance to use a white person as a martial arts coordinator, Seagal's sword teacher answered "this guy can teach the sword same as, if not better, than all the Japanese teachers I know..."

 

[pgsmith]

Steven Seagal by the way has studied a Ken-jutsu ryu and his has a black belt degree. I don't remember the name of the ryu but his teacher was the one who introduced him to Toshiro Mifune in order for Seagal Sensei to be martial arts coordinator in the film "the challenge".
At Mifune's reluctance to use a white person as a martial arts coordinator, Seagal's sword teacher answered "this guy can teach the sword same as, if not better, than all the Japanese teachers I know..."

Truth or hearsay? Recounting stories is fun, but you can't act as if they're true without producing some sort of proof. Too many people on-line do exactly this, so it makes it difficult to separate fact from fiction. It's OK to say that you heard or read that this happened. It's NOT OK to present it as truth unless you've got verifiable proof to back up your assertions.

 

[now disabled]

Sure it's all part of Aikido, no doubt about it!! Lenny is usually trying to create a hype about him and most of this is marketing but I think he was also trying to explain how hand deflections have their roots to sword practice...
Steven Seagal by the way has studied a Ken-jutsu ryu and his has a black belt degree. I don't remember the name of the ryu but his teacher was the one who introduced him to Toshiro Mifune in order for Seagal Sensei to be martial arts coordinator in the film "the challenge".
At Mifune's reluctance to use a white person as a martial arts coordinator, Seagal's sword teacher answered "this guy can teach the sword same as, if not better, than all the Japanese teachers I know..."

It would be interesting to know which school he studied as he will appear on their enrollment records

 

[Ryback]

Truth or hearsay? Recounting stories is fun, but you can't act as if they're true without producing some sort of proof. Too many people on-line do exactly this, so it makes it difficult to separate fact from fiction. It's OK to say that you heard or read that this happened. It's NOT OK to present it as truth unless you've got verifiable proof to back up your assertions.

Proof?? Well I wasn't there but you can find that specific information everywhere...
Steven Seagal Sensei is known to have a 7th Dan in Aikido, Black Belt in Karate and also black belt in kenjutsu, it's not something I am claiming...
You could find this information on printed magazines about martial arts long before Google became the main source of every knowledge...

 

[Ryback]

It would be interesting to know which school he studied as he will appear on their enrollment records

I'm not sure but I have heard that it was Yagyu Shinkage Ryu... But I don't know for sure... Nor have I ever heard the name of his teacher only when he mentioned an Ono Sensei but I can't be sure...

 

[Dirty Dog]

Proof?? Well I wasn't there but you can find that specific information everywhere...
Steven Seagal Sensei is known to have a 7th Dan in Aikido, Black Belt in Karate and also black belt in kenjutsu, it's not something I am claiming...
You could find this information on printed magazines about martial arts long before Google became the main source of every knowledge...

With no dog in the fight whatsoever, I'm just going to point out that those magazines are not always exactly pinnacles of journalistic accuracy. They've certainly been guilty of doing nothing more than reprinting what they're told without any actual confirmation. Two cases (just as examples): Frank Dux and George Dillman. A pair widely considered among the greatest martial frauds of all time. But with articles about them in "respected" magazines.

 

[pdg]

Frank Dux and George Dillman. A pair widely considered among the greatest martial frauds of all time. But with articles about them in "respected" magazines

Wasn't Dillman (at least initially) an actual serious and respected practitioner though?

 

[pgsmith]

Proof?? Well I wasn't there but you can find that specific information everywhere...
Steven Seagal Sensei is known to have a 7th Dan in Aikido, Black Belt in Karate and also black belt in kenjutsu, it's not something I am claiming...
You could find this information on printed magazines about martial arts long before Google became the main source of every knowledge...

But what I'm pointing out that. as far as I've ever heard, nobody has ever been able to verify his claims of "having a black belt in kenjutsu". What was printed in the martial arts magazines was just what Steven Seagal told them. Martial arts magazines were not, nor are they today, outstanding bastions of investigative journalism. You presented information as fact simply because you read it or heard it somewhere. I was just asking you to put in proper qualifiers.

With no dog in the fight whatsoever, I'm just going to point out that those magazines are not always exactly pinnacles of journalistic accuracy. They've certainly been guilty of doing nothing more than reprinting what they're told without any actual confirmation. Two cases (just as examples): Frank Dux and George Dillman. A pair widely considered among the greatest martial frauds of all time. But with articles about them in "respected" magazines.

Yep, I was just thinking about them both.

Wasn't Dillman (at least initially) an actual serious and respected practitioner though?

Yes he was, and he trained with some really impressive people. Then he took off down his "kyusho jutsu" and no touch knock out rabbit hole. Still a lot of people that want to believe that stuff and want to learn to throw chi balls, and he uses his past associations and training to make them believe (and pay up the big bucks!).

 

[hoshin1600]

Seagal a "black belt in kenjutsu"....
im not as knowledgeable as others on this but just putting the concepts of holding a black belt within a koryu style seems a little odd to me. but that aside, going by Seagals other far fetched claims, one has to have some serious doubts about its validity.
but how could we doubt someone who is a re incarnate Tulku, a former CIA/ FBI secret agent, a native American medicine man and one of the world foremost experts on historical Japanese swords?

 

[Dirty Dog]

Wasn't Dillman (at least initially) an actual serious and respected practitioner though?

He was, and trained under some excellent people. Before he went off into fantasy land.

 

[now disabled]

I'm not sure but I have heard that it was Yagyu Shinkage Ryu... But I don't know for sure... Nor have I ever heard the name of his teacher only when he mentioned an Ono Sensei but I can't be sure...

Just be careful bro as the way I read that article he was kinda saying in was a Koryu. That is a very very very well known ryu I don't know the lineage but the sword guys probably will and they will have enrollment records.

just be wary of him claiming certain things, as he has made some ummm, claims that well are not true or at least are questionable.

Just be careful that if he is not trying to muddy the waters as O'sensei did get licences from Yagyu Shingan ryu ( I may be wrong ) and the bit I do have a slight issue with is if he was that well connected in Japan and around the folks he says he was why did he have to door step that sensei as surely he would have been able to get a letter of introduction. I am not having a go at you my friend I just think...... well muddy waters lol

 

[hoshin1600]

I'm curious as to the black belt in karate. That is within my sphere of competence and I have some heavy doubts.

 

[now disabled]

I'm not sure but I have heard that it was Yagyu Shinkage Ryu... But I don't know for sure... Nor have I ever heard the name of his teacher only when he mentioned an Ono Sensei but I can't be sure...

I know you rate seagal highly

I did a bit of digging around and asked a few folks I know and none of them seem to know which sword school

However I did find out something that might be of interest you are aware that the dojo he claimed to set up was in fact his first wife's families dojo so It is highly contentious that he opened a dojo.

I am not casting muck at all but my friend if he does hold sword grades it would be interesting to find out when he got them.

 

[Ryback]

Just be careful bro as the way I read that article he was kinda saying in was a Koryu. That is a very very very well known ryu I don't know the lineage but the sword guys probably will and they will have enrollment records.

just be wary of him claiming certain things, as he has made some ummm, claims that well are not true or at least are questionable.

Just be careful that if he is not trying to muddy the waters as O'sensei did get licences from Yagyu Shingan ryu ( I may be wrong ) and the bit I do have a slight issue with is if he was that well connected in Japan and around the folks he says he was why did he have to door step that sensei as surely he would have been able to get a letter of introduction. I am not having a go at you my friend I just think...... well muddy waters lol

Well, as I said I wasn't there, I really don't know I'm just mentioning some information.
Let's see if someone else has a more positive bit of information, I would like to see some evidence too...

 

[Ryback]

I know you rate seagal highly

I did a bit of digging around and asked a few folks I know and none of them seem to know which sword school

However I did find out something that might be of interest you are aware that the dojo he claimed to set up was in fact his first wife's families dojo so It is highly contentious that he opened a dojo.

I am not casting muck at all but my friend if he does hold sword grades it would be interesting to find out when he got them.

I rate Seagal Sensei highly because of what I see in his technique. It has nothing to do with his claims or his Hollywood stardom or the fact that we both wear our hair long(haha)...
Well, from what I know it wasn't the Dojo that belonged to his wife's father but the building in which he opened Tenshin Dojo in Osaka...
As about his rank, well I don't doubt it because he looks like he is a pretty good aikidoka, so....
In our dojo we don't follow that ranking system anyway, so I don't judge people by their rank but from what I see, through whatever humble experience I have...

 

[now disabled]

I rate Seagal Sensei highly because of what I see in his technique. It has nothing to do with his claims or his Hollywood stardom or the fact that we both wear our hair long(haha)...
Well, from what I know it wasn't the Dojo that belonged to his wife's father but the building in which he opened Tenshin Dojo in Osaka...
As about his rank, well I don't doubt it because he looks like he is a pretty good aikidoka, so....
In our dojo we don't follow that ranking system anyway, so I don't judge people by their rank but from what I see, through whatever humble experience I have...

His Aikido rank stands up it the rest that may not

 

[hoshin1600]

However I did find out something that might be of interest you are aware that the dojo he claimed to set up was in fact his first wife's families dojo so It is highly contentious that he opened a dojo.

details details details,,,wording is very important.


Martial Arts » Steven Seagal Official Website
Steven moved to Japan in his late teens and became the first foreigner to operate an Aikido dojo in Japan.
Steven was trained by Harry Ishisaka and received 1st dan degree or Shodan under the direction of Koichi Tohei.
He continued to train in Aikido as a student of Seiseki Abe, Koichi Tohei (to whose Aikido organization, Ki Society, Seagal refused to join in favor of staying with the Aikikai), Kisaburo Osawa, Hiroshi Isoyama and the second doshu Kisshomaru Ueshiba.

When Stevens then wife, Miyako’s father retired from his job as an instructor, Seagal became the new head of the organization known as Tenshin Aikido in Osaka (affiliated with the Aikikai).


AIKIDO WORLD BLOG: Steven Seagal. The best or worst thing ever to happen to Aikido?

Seagal developed his aikido career in Japan in the mid 1970s
It is confirmed that Seagal moved to Japan around the time of his marriage, and changed affiliation from Koichi Tohei's Ki Society and Shin Shin Toitsu Aikido to the Hombu Aikikai. Seagal did factually battle the yakuza (Japanese mafia) over the rights to the Tenshin Dojo, which his wife's father lost in a gambling game. [citation needed] Older students such as Jimmy Berkley and Nick Scoggins have verified Seagal's encounters with mafiosi who would come to the dojo looking to intimidate him. The debt eventually went away, and Seagal was eventually promoted to go-dan (5th degree). He was the dojo-cho (chief instructor) of the dojo until he left in 1982,

so it seems that when the father in law Fujitani stepped down for what ever reason,, it was his daughter who should have owned and operated the dojo, she trained directly under O sensei and received her Black belt from him. something due to the culture gave Steven precedence over her as the "head" of the dojo..thus making him the first on Japanese to operate an Aikido dojo.
she then Co-founded the next dojo with him. so it appears to me she had the clout and credentials but maybe because she was a women (and that just isnt done) she was placed second to seagal.

 

[hoshin1600]

His Aikido rank stands up it the rest that may not

even that,, while legit on paper does not come without its own dubious story of how it was attained.
but given that i have a severe dislike of the guy, his Aikido is solid,, or was as the case may be.