Oh Lord, where to start with Aikido?

[Jenna]

Reason won't stop someone who is angry. That part of their brain is literally not engaged (limbic system overrides the executive center). And I won't stop to talk to someone who has a kinfe and is using it to try to hurt me. If I get a chance to break the arm holding the knife, I will break it. In NGA (remember, not a derivative from Ueshiba, but a cousin art), "aiki" is not a concept of philosophical gentleness, just one of physical blending and using the momentum of the attack.

Now, if my initial response puts them on the ground and under my control, the game has changed. Once I have control, I can afford to become gentle. If I manage that without doing harm to them, I prefer that, but I don't actively change my approach during the attack to avoid their injury.

I think physiological processes arising from limbic system cannot be engaged forever.. peak then fall, this is not correct? Like anger is a flow it cannot be a perpetual state.. it cannot be maintained without stimulus.. If you persist violently with someone who is angry then YOU are the stimulus, yes??

Is not impossible to have compassionate intent for someone who apparently wish to harm you, you do not agree?? As martial artists we have no obligation to consider these things???

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I think physiological processes arising from limbic system cannot be engaged forever.. peak then fall, this is not correct? Like anger is a flow it cannot be a perpetual state.. it cannot be maintained without stimulus.. If you persist violently with someone who is angry then YOU are the stimulus, yes??

Is not impossible to have compassionate intent for someone who apparently wish to harm you, you do not agree?? As martial artists we have no obligation to consider these things???

If they have reached what is referred to as "emotional hijacking", it is a slow process to reverse it (a chemical process), unless another strong emotion (like fear) is introduced. Anger is actually a threat response system gone awry. If I prolong the physical interaction, yes, I'll feed back into that system. However, my point is that if they're trying to hurt me I need to end it quickly (and sometimes that quickest path is injury to them). So, the level of my response is designed to shorten the engagement. If I happen into a short path that ends with a harmless immobilization, that's excellent. If what's presented doesn't lead that way, I'll end the attack with whatever means I have at hand, and being willing to injure them opens up more options.

If I have a chance to choose (and that can happen), then I'll choose the less-injurious methods so long as they are equally likely to protect me. My primary goal is self-defense, so I go with what gives me the highest chance of that end. Protecting them where I can is a close second, but always second.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

He do not have to be reasonable to reason. He only have to understand the consequence of his lack of reason is the pain he inflict upon his self in so doing

My issue with pain compliance techniques is that reaction to pain can vary immensely depending on the individual and the situation. Some people, especially under the effects of drugs, alcohol, or adrenaline, will ignore ridiculous levels of pain (up to and including broken bones) and keep on fighting. Others will not. A lot depends on their mindset.

My preferred way to avoid having to hurt an assailant is to avoid or defuse the situation before it develops. If that fails but I feel like my skill level is sufficient to control my attacker without injuring them or risking injury to myself, then there are approaches to pin someone using leverage without relying on pain compliance. If I didn't feel like that was a safe option, then I would move directly to rendering someone structurally incapable of harming me - either rendering them unconscious or breaking the limbs they are using to attack me.

If you've had successful experiences relying on pain compliance to end an attack, then that's great. I would just keep in mind that there are situations where that approach will probably not work.

 

[slink]

Nikkyo, I think. I've been in Ueshiba-lineage schools where they use the Japanese. The founder of NGA was a translator in Japan in the 40's (armed forces), and his instructor had him teach the Japanese students English names for the techniques. So, we've always just used the English names.

 

[slink]

Nikkyo, I think. I've been in Ueshiba-lineage schools where they use the Japanese. The founder of NGA was a translator in Japan in the 40's (armed forces), and his instructor had him teach the Japanese students English names for the techniques. So, we've always just used the English names.

In reply to #27 if you're talking about an Arm Bar then it would be Ikkyo. The NGA equivalent to Nikkyo would be Jacket Grab and also First Wrist.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

In reply to #27 if you're talking about an Arm Bar then it would be Ikkyo. The NGA equivalent to Nikkyo would be Jacket Grab and also First Wrist.

Hey, you know the NGA techniques and the equivalents! Thanks!

Something I've been meaning to ask someone: would NGA's 3rd Set Wrist also fall into Nikkyo? I've never fully comprehended what the differentiations are among the techniques by the Japanese names.

 

[slink]

I've never encountered the 3rd Set Wrist anywhere other than in NGA so I'm not really sure. Here are some folks who say that it's Nikkyo.

Classical Techniques ~ Blue Belt Set

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I've never encountered the 3rd Set Wrist anywhere other than in NGA so I'm not really sure. Here are some folks who say that it's Nikkyo.

Classical Techniques ~ Blue Belt Set

I've always considered it a variation of the same technique as the 1st Set Wrist and Jacket Grab (which are truly two variations of the same technique).

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

A video showing Aikido movement in real life:
The Instinctive Edge

 

[Jenna]

A video showing Aikido movement in real life:
The Instinctive Edge

Very deft, love to watch those.. Could be Aiki yes kote gaeshi or similar JJ maybe? Awesome plus also he is Professor of Defence against the Dark Arts! ooh yes please and thank you! Can I be apprenticed pretty pretty please??

 

[O'Malley]

Isn't it shiho nage?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Very deft, love to watch those.. Could be Aiki yes kote gaeshi or similar JJ maybe? Awesome plus also he is Professor of Defence against the Dark Arts! ooh yes please and thank you! Can I be apprenticed pretty pretty please??

Yes, it's apparently kote gaeshi. The movement matches movement I've seen in Ueshiba's Aikido, as well as some JJ, so I'm with you on that. The "toss" at the end of the kote gaeshi is a movement we use to lock after that throw (and I think I've seen at an Aikikai dojo, as well), and apparently works well as a finish if the throw doesn't do the work.

 

[O'Malley]

My bad, shiho nage is done by spinning the other way around and twisting the arm to the outside. So kote gaeshi.

...right?

 

[drop bear]

A video showing Aikido movement in real life:
The Instinctive Edge

I like how the officer obviously has extensive martial arts training as evidenced by one movement.

Otherwise that is pretty much my only disarm.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

My bad, shiho nage is done by spinning the other way around and twisting the arm to the outside. So kote gaeshi.

...right?

Correct, assuming I'm visualizing your description correctly.

EDIT: You're lucky - I actually know the Japanese names for only a few techniques, and those two are among them.

 

[Jenna]

My bad, shiho nage is done by spinning the other way around and twisting the arm to the outside. So kote gaeshi.

...right?

Hey I think you could be forgiven for seeing shiho nage here because it is quick.. though is more like kote gaeshi you know simple twist of the wrist if you watch so uke go in the direction of his fingers hopefully straight down neatly in his own space though (even this technique done wrong encourage lot of flamboyant ukemi though that is for another day! )

Shiho nage he would have stepped under so uke whole arm would be bent at elbow on it self and taken uke down backwards (usually though there is other stuff you can do for sure)

Wishes x

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Hey I think you could be forgiven for seeing shiho nage here because it is quick.. though is more like kote gaeshi you know simple twist of the wrist if you watch so uke go in the direction of his fingers hopefully straight down neatly in his own space though (even this technique done wrong encourage lot of flamboyant ukemi though that is for another day! )

Shiho nage he would have stepped under so uke whole arm would be bent at elbow on it self and taken uke down backwards (usually though there is other stuff you can do for sure)

Wishes x

Agreed. Shiho nage can also be done with a pivot, rather than stepping under the arm (so, bringing arm over, rather than you under), which would be closer to the movements in this video - it works with the pulling-back of the arm. More technical, and requires more precision, IME.

 

[Spinedoc]

Agreed. Shiho nage can also be done with a pivot, rather than stepping under the arm (so, bringing arm over, rather than you under), which would be closer to the movements in this video - it works with the pulling-back of the arm. More technical, and requires more precision, IME.

In hamni handachi, you can even execute shihonage by moving uke around you. Here's a ryotedori version, but it can be done from katate dori. You simply hyperextend uke's wrist with a slight lassoing motion. They will move, because the alternative is worse......This is one of my faves....

 

[Gerry Seymour]

In hamni handachi, you can even execute shihonage by moving uke around you. Here's a ryotedori version, but it can be done from katate dori. You simply hyperextend uke's wrist with a slight lassoing motion. They will move, because the alternative is worse......This is one of my faves....

True enough, assuming they don't lose balance and fall on you (probably a likely scenario outside the dojo). The same can be done from standing, if the right position presents itself. Both are less technical than the version I was referring to, but require a more specific start, IME.