Do you think Steven seagal is destroying Aikido?
- Thread starter moonhill99
- Start date
Wrist locks are totally legal in MMA. āSmall joint manipulationā in this context refers to bending back individual fingers.Small joint manipulation (e.g. twisting fingers or wrists), uncontrolled throws that risk head or neck injury, attacks to the spine or back of the head, pressure point attacks, and techniques involving hair pulling or groin strikes are all banned.
The UFC would be way more interesting with bokken though, admittedly
Aikido throws are totally legal in MMA. (As are āuncontrolled throwsā in general.) What is banned is specifically holding someone upside down and spiking their head into the ground. This is probably a reaction to the Shamrock-Zinoviev fight where Frank Shamrock ended Zinovievās fight career by pile-driving him. Watch that on YouTube for an example of the specific move being banned.
Pressure point attacks are legal, other than the throat and groin.
You are correct that strikes to the back of the head and spine, groin attacks, and hair pulling are all banned.
Interestingly, as I looked through lists and demos of standard Aikido techniques, you know what I didnāt see? Hair pulling, groin attacks, strikes to the back of head and spine, and bending individual fingers.
Iām not saying that no Aikido practitioners use or teach those techniques. (I train and teach them in BJJ, even though they arenāt legal in BJJ competition.) I am saying itās a bit of a stretch to say that their absence is the reason for Aikido not being represented in MMA. As far as I can tell, all the standard (non-bokken) Aikido curriculum is legal in MMA: Ikkyo, nikkyo, sankyo, yonkyo, gokyo, rokyo, kote gaeshi, irimi nage, shiho nage, etc, etc.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
For better exposure.But why the octagon?
And time limits!
I love seeing gedan ate in MMA. I think most of the people who do it in MMA learned the technique from Karate or Muay Thai rather than Aikido, but itās the same technique regardless of the source.
Wake gatame Iām more ambivalent about. Itās a legitimate technique, but very hard to pull off in an MMA setting and likely to result in injury when it does work. I prefer joint locks where the opponent has a chance to tap in time to avoid injury.
I think the examples in the video for aigamae ate in MMA were a bit of a stretch. I saw osoto-gari, osoto-gake, and a knee tap. I suppose thereās some overlap between some variations of aigamae ate and osoto-gake, but it feels like the video is really straining to call those examples of Aikido techniques.
Ude hineri is a staple of any art which includes joint locks. Aikido, Judo, Jujutsu, Sambo, Catch wrestling ā¦ Iām not sure I can think of an art which includes joint locks and doesnāt have that technique in the syllabus. For a reason - itās very effective.
The difference is the entry and control. The aikido guy grabs and pulls opponent's lead hand. However, the opponent can move their hand, body and/or counter. Rokas demonstrates this in his "Real Version" video.
Aikido guyā¦
1. steps forward, touches opponentās extended lead arm while opponentās front foot is planted.
2. grabs opponent's wrist, pulls and steps back.
3. strikes with rear hand, draws opponent's block and lifts lead hand.
4. steps forward underneath lead hand then throws.
In contrast, Lyoto (Shotokan karate)ā¦
1. steps back into the safe zone and hand fights or strikes with rear hand.
2. steps forward intercepting opponent's step forward (double weighted) then throws.
Here is a successful wrist grab (solving one of Rokas' problems). The opponent moves back rather than forward.
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Rokas discusses the street kotegaeshi in the above video. Rain performing the kotegaeshi comments on the video too...
Martial Arts Journey with Rokas
Jun 11, 2018
I've finally received a video of Aikido applied in real setting caught on CCTV footage. Yet the talk discussion we had with the person in footage will still probably be not what most Aikido people want to hear.
@aikidoawareness8407
6 years ago
Rain here, I just wanted to highlight a few things.
This is just one video from my time in security and normally I was not allowed to keep the footage. I dealt with **** like this as often as nine times a night throughout my career. The guy in the white shirt I had thrown out after he entered the establishment, harassed my door-girl and struck one of my security team on the back of the skull. They were not drunk but most likely because of the amount of cocaine they were on. They beat the **** out of an entire crew of bouncers at a club up the street before visiting us. The part of the video you all are seeing is after it started to de-escalate. When you see me walk out, look carefully and you will see me deflect a punch and simply move people around while remaining calm. The guy I took down kept trying to grab me and had attempted to put his hands on me several times. The guy in the white shirt became a coward after a few kicks and seeing his friends go down. The guy kicking like Bruce Lee was the security member who was struck and lost his cool. My guys were always taught to detain first if possible, he was new. Of course, it would be easy to knock someone out and just be done with it but that is not smart business. Lawsuits suck and club owners with hot-headed bouncers do not always last.
Aikido does actually work but it is mostly drilling without resistance and requires pressure testing at some point. I have pulled off techniques against MMA practitioners, Jiu-Jitsu practitioners and with Thai Boxers in the clinch. And just to be clear all those arts would work well against a drunk or untrained idiot and none of them may hold up against a trained individual depending on the practitioner. I do not teach Aikido and am actually a Muay Thai coach now but I will not join the bandwagon out there and hate on Aikido. Because Aikido is meant to be a peaceful practice the competitive edge is not there. However, you have to be willing to look at the state of mind of the Aikido founder post-war and also look how he trained before the war to truly understand why he wanted Aikido to become a path of peace. Aikido actually served me best when it came to disarms, while I still got cut at times I am here today. When you see Aikido guys practicing techniques without resisting opponents it is really just repetition training for the mind and body. There are some idiots out there that believe that is fighting but it is no different than putting on bag gloves and hitting a punching bag. Drilling is good. Here is the part where I piss off the Aikido world I guess. Without a competitive edge, Aikido is lacking. If you look at martial arts as a whole you will notice that the ones with the most fraudulent activity also have less pressure testing. Rokas, as well as myself and many others, do not dislike Aikido we are simply a realist.
I am a big guy and size does help with **** like knee on belly but Aikido much like Judo is not about forcing techniques. It is the same when I practice BJJ, you just have to relax and go with the flow. With Aikido we like to reverse that flow at the last second is all. When truly looking into Aikido look at its principles and you will see it with new eyes. It is not near as bad as many of its practitioners, lol. Everyone has their opinions and I read some awesome comments. I even enjoyed the ones most people would get offended by as well, I loved all the feedback. Thank you for sharing Rokas and keeping it real bro. Keep on moving forward.
-------------------------Just to add a little knowledge to the conversation I would like you all to hold out your right-hand, palm down. Now slowly turn it over. True Aikido is like this. The Principles are all there. You all see the passive side of Aikido as intended. Like a duck on a pond, Aikido looks very calm on the surface but underneath the water is churning. Some call it Koppo, it is known as the dark side of Aikido. I am not one to care what people think about this or that art, If something works for me I will steal it and that is that I don't care what art it comes from. Aikido is not on the level it should be but it's not the fault of Aikido is my point. The more you research into the earlier work like Budo Renshu and so on the more you see Aikido as a Spiritual Crown to the founder's personal journey. Philosophically, if your heart is in the right place before and after an attack that is Aikido. To not injure others while controlling situations where you could have caused injury or death says a lot about one's character. The important part of my own journey is that I was armed throughout my career and could have just shot someone many times and would have been within my legal rights. Instead, I used an art that I personalized that everyone says does not work. The hard truth is that Aikido helped teach me to be a better person. If that is fake than fraudulent **** is awesome.
@aikidoawareness8407
6 years ago
I do believe people should stick to the original training methods. However, you have to pressure test if you want to know what is going to work for you when pressed. The repetition practice in Aikido is awesome and repetition is the mother of all skill. If you do not have a competitive heart or hatred for your fellow man when pressure testing you have not gone against the principles expressed by the founder. Tranquility is a state of mind. I know for a fact that many high-level Aikidoka do pressure test with senior students. To explain this to others or argue with everyone online about it solves nothing and will only hinder one's ability to find balance within. Not being blind to other arts is also a help to your martial arts journey. Several Aikidoka in the past did often cross train. You do not need to add entire systems to your Aikido but you should explore the other arts and build on your personal experience. A lot of people wrestle with the principles of Aikido, not so much because Aikido is lacking, their level of self-awareness is. I also once wrestled with the principles of Aikido. If your intentions are good your Aikido is good. If your intentions are bad your Aikido is bad. People will always assume something does not work based on a biased lens or lack of knowledge, not only of the art, but oneself.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
Same Trick
Purple Belt
Steve is much much heavier today that when first got into movies, not easy with swift footwork anymore, stationary VT more suited
Sammy Naur
Green Belt
I think the entire Aikido crowd needs to distance itself from Steven Seagal.
Sure he's gotten fat but even at his prime he was a bad example.
His kind of tough guy artiste gets itself handed back to itself.
Same Trick
Purple Belt
I remember (many) years ago on the cover of a black belt magazine a whole bunch of Americas greatest karate tough guys Chuck Norris, Bill Wallace, and five or six more of them strikes a fighting pose and issued a challenge to Seagal āŗ
