Disadvantages of Kenpo?

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Robert, Robert, Robert:

Do you really believe Cronenberg's work is a reflection of late-Romantic anti-intellectualism? Don't you think it is more of a post-Romantic reaction to the industrial revolution, a reflection on the alienation of the worker in the post industrial society and the manifestation of modern sexual psychosis as identified by Freud?

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson
Hey, "Rainman," thanks for the gratuitous insults. I guess that writing, I disagree," deserves attack. After all, I actually made a very common association of the heart with emotion, spirit, passion--no wonder.

Here are some phases and words that are definitely NOT, "the heart of the art:"

1. On the street
2. He who hesitates meditates in a horizontal position
3. Over-intellectualizing
4. Mushin
5. The paralysis of analysis
6. Not enough grappling
7. The extensions are unnecessary
8. The forms are useless
9. Combat
10. Warrior

These cliches and shibboleths have their place in trying to pass on ideas. They also have their place in making us all feel warm and fuzzy about our own deadliness. But at best, they merely represent concepts, principles, actions.

Since I apparently cannot post anything original anyway, here's a paraphrase from Mr. Tatum: "A teacher isn't impressed by a student's words, but moved by their passion." About the most important manifestation of that passion, I think, is a student's willingness to engage in the daily drudgery of training, and regularly risk the embarassment and occasionally the pain of working out with the other kids. (Of course, for my students it's manifested by their putting up with me.)

Mushin isn't achieved, incidentally, by turning your mind off. Mushin is achieved, if it is achieved at all, by slowly working one's way through the stages of learning until something new happens. Can intellectualizing be a dead end? Absolutely. So can bragging and swaggering, so can closing your body to the study of the forms, so can yakking about being a warrior, so can trying to bully others into agreeing with us.

And so can premature abandonment of thought. Trungpa Rinpoche--himself a real so-and-so--wrote a book about Westerners' propensity for this. he called it, "spiritual materialism:" because, "look how no-minded I am!" and "Look at my new Lexus!" are, at bottom, the same mistake. Me, me, me, lookit what I got.

But then, anybody who's seen the Zen "ox-herding," pictures or read a little D.T. Suzuki and Alan Watts oughta know this already.

I would add that some of this anti-intellectualism comes out of a fundamental commitment to late-Romantic ideas about a return to simplicity. I recommend seeing David Cronenberg's, "They Came From Within," as an antidote.

Or as Tom Joad used to say...

Oh and thank you for your insults as well... and the typical 10 paragraphs of nothing. You only disagreed? Noooo. Your insults are implied and you use quotes from literature to do your dirty work because you fancy yourself a gentlemen.

Anytime you attack me you will get the same in return. Take your best shot and meander all over the place and put a pinch of Kenpo in what you say... It is what you do best or at least what you do the most of.

The Kenpo I learned has plenty of grappling so what you just did was place a stereotype and stigmatize all AK. How do you do that if you have not worked out with all the groups?

He who hesitates... more yellow belt material.

I agree on one thing, persevering.

1. On the street- Doing what?
2. Over intellectualizing. So Mr. Parker should have learned what he learned in the beginning and just taught only that.
3. Mushin- depends on if you believe concepts theories and principles are the heart of American Kenpo.
4. Analysis paralysis- No such thing.
5. Combat- A concept when talked about.

If you truely want to debate- lets go, pick a Kenpo subject.

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

:argue: :duel: :jediduel: :boxing:

 

[kenpo12]

OFK,

LOL!

 

[Seig]

-Admin Note-
Last warning, keep it polite and respectfull.
-Seig-
-MT Assistant Administrator-

 

[rmcrobertson]

"Oh and thank you for your insults as well... and the typical 10 paragraphs of nothing. You only disagreed? Noooo. Your insults are implied and you use quotes from literature to do your dirty work because you fancy yourself a gentlemen."

Way to go on the whole mushin thing, tied as it is to ideas about courtesy and respect. Try to lighten up on the intentional fallacy jazz, eh? Otherwise, I'll draw a few conclusions of my own. Certainly Tom Joad would.

As fer you, OFK, either a) you're dragging bait in front of me, or b) you've seen the damn movie. Not fair at all. I based the cheap remark on something the doctor who invents the parasites says about human beings being too thoughtful, too living in their heads, so he decides to change all that. I agree about the sexual hysteria--but I can't say what to say about Cronenberg and modernity...outside of the general visual revulsion.

Hey, if you ever get hold of a copy of, "Crimes of the Future," let me know, wouldja?

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Robert: Sorry, I was yanking your chain a little. Your post was so lofty...I just couldn't resist. And, I have seen the movie. It is truly disgusting--and that is why I am surprised you would reference it.

 

[rmcrobertson]

That was lofty? You need to hang around with a few academics--but any time I realize that I am among the most down-to-earth and reasonable of the breed, I feel sick.

And speaking of "They Came," ick is right. (Remember the scene withe the two old ladies and the plastic umbrella?) However, again I recommend reading more 70s-80-90s lit and cultural crit--that sort of stuff's all over there. In fact, one of my dissertation advisors' brothers, something Silverman, is one of Cronenberg's actors.

You aren't the only fella who likes to yank a chaing from time to time, by the way.

Thanks.

 

[kkbb]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
I prefer not to use the word argue.... but rather debate. This way we can search out each others thoughts a little more respectfully and possibly gain some insight ..... one way or the other.

:asian:

You don't debate ...sir! You belittle!

 

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by kkbb
You don't debate ...sir! You belittle!

I would like to disagree but I am still waiting to hear how my instructor fed me a line about how the individual considerations(of the eight considerations) are master key concepts. We started a seperate thread to address the charge and you still chose not to answer.

 

[KenpoTess]

I am not seeing The Topic being discussed...

 

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by KenpoTess
I am not seeing The Topic being discussed...

One of the disadvantages of Kenpo is that no one can agree on what a master key concept is and what they might be.
Sean

 

[kkbb]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
I prefer not to use the word argue.... but rather debate. This way we can search out each others thoughts a little more respectfully and possibly gain some insight ..... one way or the other.

:asian:

You don't debate ...sir! You belittle!

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by kkbb
You don't debate ...sir! You belittle!

If there is a problem, allow me to discuss it with you. Possibly a misunderstanding or even an apology is necessary, in either case, I'm always open to discuss what may have annoyed you as it is not my intention to belittle anyone.

Feel free to email me @ [email protected]

Respectfully
:asian:

 

[tshadowchaser]

And now back to the subject of the disadvantages of/in Kenpo

I see one of the disavantages as being the speed that many students try to do their technques with. I have no problem with speed BUT it must be accurate in its placemnt in relation to the taget area. Way to many young students are fast as hell but cant hit the correct part of the body with their techniques
More than a few also lose their strength of penatration with speed thusly so many discribe the art as a slap art

 

[arnisador]

We have removed a post from this thread.

This thread is now locked.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-

 

[Seig]

Mod Note:
We are unlocking this thread at this time, please, keep the discussion polite, respectfull, and on topic so that we do not have to lock it again.
-Seig-
-MT ***'t Admin-

 

[Rob Broad]

The major disadvantage of Kenpo is all the infighting. We fight amongst ourselves over the stupidest things at time. Organizations squabble, seniors disagree, and people that should be enjoying a brotherhood look to belittle each other for nothing. I know that I myself have been caught up in this morass and it seriously hurts everybody. I actually feel bad these days for previous transgressions, and wish that I had stayed focused instead of lowering myself and others to a level that should never be seen.

Kenpo in my opinion has everything including the opportunity to do ourselves harm.

 

[Goldendragon7]

It's the lack of standardization of the basic material. Due to the transit nature of students throughout the evolution of Kenpo, many left for numerous reasons, and only captured what they were taught at the time that they studied.

Then, those that decided to start studios or teach those methods passed on what knowledge they knew at the time that they studied. Since there was no real structure for updating ones art, several versions developed. Thus the diversity of the Art and independent opinions on said material.

Ed Parker was a constant organizer and evolver. He would constantly organize or re-organize his material into logical areas (updating necessary areas - or further explaining or refining areas that seemed to be solid in content).

New manuals and videos were in the works as well as better and more complete descriptions and understandings of the techniques, forms, sets, and basics.

Technique descriptions and especially what the defense was exactly in response for, were being addressed which would clarify the purpose of a specific technique and cut down on "presumed" interpretations.

Ed Parker was a multi-tasker and multi-interpretation minded. Too many look at a movement or technique and only see an obvious function when in reality it has several functions. This alone is one sad problem that many don't see. Like Mr. Parker said; "Many look but few see", "Several hear, but few listen".

:asian:

 

[True2Kenpo]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
It's the lack of standardization of the basic material. Due to the transit nature of students throughout the evolution of Kenpo, many left for numerous reasons, and only captured what they were taught at the time that they studied.

Then, those that decided to start studios or teach those methods passed on what knowledge they knew at the time that they studied. Since there was no real structure for updating ones art, several versions developed. Thus the diversity of the Art and independent opinions on said material.

Ed Parker was a constant organizer and evolver. He would constantly organize or re-organize his material into logical areas (updating necessary areas - or further explaining or refining areas that seemed to be solid in content).

New manuals and videos were in the works as well as better and more complete descriptions and understandings of the techniques, forms, sets, and basics.

Technique descriptions and especially what the defense was exactly in response for, were being addressed which would clarify the purpose of a specific technique and cut down on "presumed" interpretations.

Ed Parker was a multi-tasker and multi-interpretation minded. Too many look at a movement or technique and only see an obvious function when in reality it has several functions. This alone is one sad problem that many don't see. Like Mr. Parker said; "Many look but few see", "Several hear, but few listen".

:asian:

I completely agree sir!

You mentioned about newer manuals... have they been published or has someone achieved that same level of description in their own manuals?

Good journey!

Respectfully,
Joshua Ryer
IKKA
UPK Pittsburgh