defense at school.(Rules that prohibite fighting.

[47MartialMan]

But juveniles have a way to not avoid or not control. It is easy to say to walk away, but harder to do. Juvenile peer pressure weighs heavy and takes the toll.

 

[lvwhitebir]

But juveniles have a way to not avoid or not control. It is easy to say to walk away, but harder to do. Juvenile peer pressure weighs heavy and takes the toll.

I believe it's the same as for an adult. The difference is the adult generally has enough self-esteem or enough knowledge of consequences that he chooses to walk away. Most of the juveniles I know believe that the way to solve the problem is to "put the person in their place." It's a matter of learning proper behavior and learning the repurcussions of your actions.

How many of you have grown up and thought "I can't believe I fought over something as stupid as that?"

WhiteBirch

 

[lvwhitebir]

Here's another option...how about some common sense. How about punishing someone who starts a fight more seriously than one who is simply defending themselves from a physical assault.

I agree. Unfortunatly that's the realm of the courts and not the school. The school sees them both as offenders so they don't have to make a legal decision.

Try this. If you get into a confrontation at school, ask yourself if you think you can go to the police and press charges. If so, then you probably applied self-defense properly. And, if so, why don't you go to the police and press charges?

Most assaults in prison are simply fights over "ego", but that doesn't mean people don't get stabbed to death. If someone is assaulting me for their ego, it means I have to just take it because "Hey, it's just for his ego, so I should take a beating and he'll feel better"? Whatever.

I never said to "take a beating." I said find another option before you get to the point of physical attack. And a school is not a prison; it's a bunch of kids who fight over tennis shoes and girls. Most of the time (statistics say somewhere over 80%), the fights are not deadly at all, their purpose is simply to exert a position of power. Ego fights can more easily be defused by walking away. The more your ego intervenes the more likely there will be a fight.

And as for "both being involved", no kidding. If I get mugged, and I defend myself I was "involved". If a woman is about to get raped, and she shoots the rapist, she's guilty because she was "involved"? If I take a beating and do nothing, I was "involved", so what does being involved have to do with anything? lol.

I'm sorry you misunderstood my definition. I'll try to be more clear.

"Being involved" is a matter of your state of mind when you "defended yourself;" not your presence in the situation. If your entire goal is to do what is needed to escape the situation, then legally you're not "involved." If your state of mind is to punish the other person or is of wanting to fight, then you're "involved." That's the underlying essense of self-defense.

If a guy jumps you and you create enought space to run out the door, you're not "involved." If the guy says to "take it out back" and he dies in the altercation, you are "involved" and it's no longer a self-defense situation.

If you get mugged and you try everything in your power to get away but still end up having to kill the guy, it's self defense. If you instead press the point, beat him unconcious even when he tries to flee, then you're guilty of attacking him, too. In fact you both are guilty in the eyes of the law.

A woman who fights back against a rapist and ends up having to shoot him because she has no other option can assert a self-defense claim. Going over to a man's house and shooting him because he claimed he was going to rape her is not self-defense.

So, in short, "being involved" is the desire to fight; not "being involved" is the desire to avoid the fight. Your state of mind is one of the keys to a successful self-defense claim.

WhiteBirch

 

[lvwhitebir]

Here are some statistics (National Center for Education Statistics, Bureau of Justice Statistics, "Indicators of School Crime and Safety: 2003"):

* In the 1999-2000 school year there were 16 school-related homicides of school-aged children.

* In 2001, 13% of students reported as being in a fight at the school

* In 2001, 8% of students reported as being bullied within the last 6 months

WhiteBirch

 

[sgtmac_46]

I agree. Unfortunatly that's the realm of the courts and not the school. The school sees them both as offenders so they don't have to make a legal decision.

Try this. If you get into a confrontation at school, ask yourself if you think you can go to the police and press charges. If so, then you probably applied self-defense properly. And, if so, why don't you go to the police and press charges?



I never said to "take a beating." I said find another option before you get to the point of physical attack. And a school is not a prison; it's a bunch of kids who fight over tennis shoes and girls. Most of the time (statistics say somewhere over 80%), the fights are not deadly at all, their purpose is simply to exert a position of power. Ego fights can more easily be defused by walking away. The more your ego intervenes the more likely there will be a fight.



I'm sorry you misunderstood my definition. I'll try to be more clear.

"Being involved" is a matter of your state of mind when you "defended yourself;" not your presence in the situation. If your entire goal is to do what is needed to escape the situation, then legally you're not "involved." If your state of mind is to punish the other person or is of wanting to fight, then you're "involved." That's the underlying essense of self-defense.

If a guy jumps you and you create enought space to run out the door, you're not "involved." If the guy says to "take it out back" and he dies in the altercation, you are "involved" and it's no longer a self-defense situation.

If you get mugged and you try everything in your power to get away but still end up having to kill the guy, it's self defense. If you instead press the point, beat him unconcious even when he tries to flee, then you're guilty of attacking him, too. In fact you both are guilty in the eyes of the law.

A woman who fights back against a rapist and ends up having to shoot him because she has no other option can assert a self-defense claim. Going over to a man's house and shooting him because he claimed he was going to rape her is not self-defense.

So, in short, "being involved" is the desire to fight; not "being involved" is the desire to avoid the fight. Your state of mind is one of the keys to a successful self-defense claim.

WhiteBirch

"being involved" usually means you were there. I guess we can argue over the definition of "is". The rest here is nothing but a strawman argument.

 

[arnisador]

Learn some pressure point and finger locks. You may be punished, but the other guy will look all the stupider. You know, dancing on his tip toes screaming in agony and all you have ahold of is his pinky.

I love it when it looks like I did nothing, yet they're in pain...I look for thos etechniques! Oh, sorry, i tripped over you...hope you're OK!

 

[Icewater]

School policies over fighting cheese me off to no end. But we have a saying in my kwoon, "It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6." Basically, think of your safety first. Think of school policy second.

 

[Bigshadow]

I love it when it looks like I did nothing, yet they're in pain...I look for thos etechniques! Oh, sorry, i tripped over you...hope you're OK!

I like that too.... All the while yelling Stop Stop I don't want to fight! LOL

You have to be sure to add the audio cues too! I mean all the witnesses saw was me telling him I didn't want to fight and somehow he tripped and I fell and somehow his ribs got broken and his arm dislocated! Ooops excuse me, I was trying to get away from him!


I could just imagine how that would look.

 

[Andrew Green]

You do what you have to do to defend yourself, try not to do any serious damage if you can avoid it, but don't let yourself get beat on, you'll likely get punished anyways and mark yourself as a easy victim that doesn't fight back.

You'll likely get suspended, but so what? Better to get a few days suspension for doing what is right then getting beat up and making yourself a easy target for next time.