Co-Ed in the Ring?

[MJS]

you make some good points, but the sport has changed a lot since the david & goliath tournament you're referring to. at that time many fighters were still one-dimensional, & if the smaller fighter could take the bigger one out of his element he could win. now everyone is well-rounded, & the simple fact is that more fights are won on physical conditioning rather than technique (although that can't be overlooked either). i'm a technician first & an athelete second (well maybe third or fourth, honestly) so i'd love it if it weren't that way, but it is.

I agree with the conditioning. However, and I'm speaking for myself only here, but when I'm paying $50 for a fight, I wanna see something. G&P seems to have taken over the technique aspect. IMO, it doesnt take much skill to stand up in someones guard and rain down strikes on their head. How about something technical? But you're right...thats the way it is, and the way it'll most likely continue to be.

but if enough well-trained, well-conditioned women take an interest in competitive MMA, i'm sure the bigger organizations will create a woman's division. almost every combat sport through history has followed the same course; it's a man's world, a few women blaze a trail for other women, then women's divisions start to be created.

most of the women's MMA fights i've seen have been terrific fights. i reffed a jujitsu tournament a couple weeks ago, & by far the most exciting matches were the women.

jf

I think it would be a big plus for the sport.

 

[jarrod]

I agree with the conditioning. However, and I'm speaking for myself only here, but when I'm paying $50 for a fight, I wanna see something. G&P seems to have taken over the technique aspect. IMO, it doesnt take much skill to stand up in someones guard and rain down strikes on their head. How about something technical? But you're right...thats the way it is, and the way it'll most likely continue to be.

oh i'm with you on that. i think two things altered that; one being the removal of headbutts & the other being stand-ups for stalling. not that headbutting is technical, but the guy on bottom damn well had to have an active, technical guard or he was going to get bloody fast. same thing with stand ups, too often you'll see the bottom man stall out for time rather than actually work.

but i'm veering off topic here, my apologies. i have seen some co-ed grappling & judo matches/exhibitions, which i think is great. maybe it's sexist of me, but i'm just not interested in seeing a man hit a woman.

also, there is the issue of any inherent prejudices of the officials. it's not hard to imagine most male refs stopping fights early so as to "protect" the woman, even if it's not consciously done.

jf

 

[teekin]

Once again we go back to evolution. The human male was designed for conflict, the ability to inflict and sustain damage. Heavier bone structure ( more ossification, thicker cartilage pads, thicker synovial fluid, blah, blah blah), higher ratio of fast twitch muscles, larger visual cortex, less sensitive skin, thicker outer dermal layer....well the list just keeps going. MMA is an extension of combat men were designed to do and are beautifully suited for. Millions of years of evolution, with the genetic mistakes being wiped out, made it so.
Women did not have to develope the same way, we developed those attributes that created a succesful society. Communication, language, emotion, endurance, smell, logic, empathy, tactile sensate, hearing, balance, fine motor skills, attention to detail, patience, fat stores.
You can rail all you want, but a man and a woman of equal size, weight and skill in combat, the man has the advantage simply because he is a man. The "y" chomasome and all it entails.
lori

 

[Si-Je]

Ok. Look I used to fly planes and it's been proven that women can multi-task more than men, and your saying men see better? This has been disproven. I've been tested for my perifial vision and it is above average to that of a man.
Faster twitch reflexes? I beg to differ. My reflexes best most men. My reaction time is better than most men. I've flow airplanes with men and have been better than some of my peirs, who were men.

As for women not being able to reach their peak and compete at a higher professional level with men I think that is very false. I've seen female bodybuilders that chunk weight around as much as their male counterparts of their weight class. A woman with the same money for trainers, diet, time, etc. as a man at a professional level will be able to reach the same levels of conditioning and fitness as her male counter parts.

As for men being "specially designed" for conflict and combat I have a hard time with that. Look at nature. Tell that to a female lion who does all the hunting and killing and protection of the cubs. Tell that to the female hawk that does the same thing. As we are the human "animal" I find that women have the same potiential for combat. The only difference is that for the past 2,000 years societies train, teach, and hinder females from being combative, or in some cultures even from being assertive.

The ancient Celts their women fought alongside the men in battle often. And may men were trained for combat by women. over 2,000 years ago of course. The Isralie army has women in combat and have come to find that the females are some of their best soldiers and fighters.

But, we disagree on some of these things. So the perceptions and limitations of the mind is what will truely create the celing to what a person can do. This is an individual descision, and the individual decides what their limitations are. I'd ware people not to place unwarrented limitations on individuals espectially to generalize a group of individuals with undue limitations. You may find yourself unhappily surprised.

Now I did wonder about this because MMA relys so much on strength, so their may be merrit to women and men not being able to compete fairly. But a woman knows about a man's strength and compensates with skill, speed, and straight up creativity.

Being a practioner of a style where it is in my best interest to have a stronger, stiffer, and even larger opponent I just approach fighting differently. The last person male or female I want to have to fight is one that is relaxed, fast, and has impecable technique. But, I would wonder if the same ideal would still apply to MMA. For I have seen much technique that focuses more on positioning, leverage, and technique. So.....
Why not?

Now if we're talking about a straight up boxing match where all you could do is punch then matching a male and female would be unfair. But, in MMA you can use so much more, kicking, BJJ, grappling, throws, elbows, knees, (I would love to see people block more though! lol) but, you see this would be a sport where a female could do more against her opponent. So, there is more of a chance that she could win.

Plus, they have so many safety rules in effect that hardly anyone gets seriously injured anymore. They stop the fights when the person stops "responding" to being punched, or has taken too many blows to the head. I really think that the sport would be safe enough to give women a fair shake in the ring.

But, please don't start spouting off how men's reaction/reflexes are better, eyesight, testosterone levels are higher, etc...etc.. These things are all relative and selective to the individual. Or that men are just designed by "nature" for combat. Yes, they tend to have more physical attributes that can make them stronger. But, I've met men my size that had the very same tiny bone structure that I do, so again this is all relative to the individual. And this "nature" for combat is something that has been taught, and trained into the minds of men since possibly the beginning of time. And trained into the minds of women that we are just no good at combat, hunting, survivial, fighting. Silly I tell you.
It's all in the mind, the desire, the will of the individual.

But, this is a good thread. I like that folks are thinking about this. Especially if your a martial artist. This is something to seriously think about for competition and on a self defense level. Is this possible? Can it happen? Forget about the "santioning" of it all, just the ideal can it be done. Should it be done? Would this be good for the women and men alike?
Can we as a society open up and think more equally when it comes to women and men fighting in a ring and competing? Why, or why not? What's the hang up?

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

As for women not being able to reach their peak and compete at a higher professional level with men I think that is very false. I've seen female bodybuilders that chunk weight around as much as their male counterparts of their weight class. A woman with the same money for trainers, diet, time, etc. as a man at a professional level will be able to reach the same levels of conditioning and fitness as her male counter parts.

Um NO I am fairly sure they do not and will not. Please feel free to show me any woman that has "thrown around" the same weights as a man in her same weight class. It simply is not true that I have ever heard of.
I have no problem with any of your other comments, but this is simply not true. You may want it to be true, but it is not. I will be more then happy to eat my words if you can point out this Amazon that is as strong as the men in her weight class. Remember this is not a self defense situation, this is a sport fighting situation where most of the tools that a person can use to equalize a strength and or size difference are not allowed.

 

[Nomad]

Men and women are built differently, think differently (as has been pointed out to me on many occasions), and also fight differently.

This is not to say one is better than the other, but to not acknowledge the fact that there are differences is to close your eyes tightly against some pretty solid facts and statistics.

While I'm sure that exceptions can be found, on average male athletes will have more developed upper bodies and greater strength, while female athletes often have the advantage in terms of balance (lower center of gravity) and endurance. Interestingly, it's been shown that when the speed is calibrated to compensate for stride length (directly corresponds to the relative lengths of the shin and thigh bone), the fastest runners in the world are women.

Men tend to be more immediately aggressive; women tend to build anger slower and hold it longer.

Still, I have no doubt that there are women who could compete on a relatively even playing field with men in MMA.

I think what will prevent co-ed matches from happening in the near future are the psychological aspects of such a match. As has been mentioned, if the man wins and beats the female competitor bloody, he'll be reviled by a very large portion of society (and the viewing audience); if he's the one beaten down... aside from taking a possibly fatal blow to the ego, he'll be ridiculed by the same factions.

 

[teekin]

Ok. Look I used to fly planes and it's been proven that women can multi-task more than men, and your saying men see better? This has been disproven. I've been tested for my perifial vision and it is above average to that of a man.
Faster twitch reflexes? I beg to differ. My reflexes best most men. My reaction time is better than most men. I've flow airplanes with men and have been better than some of my peirs, who were men.

As for women not being able to reach their peak and compete at a higher professional level with men I think that is very false. I've seen female bodybuilders that chunk weight around as much as their male counterparts of their weight class. A woman with the same money for trainers, diet, time, etc. as a man at a professional level will be able to reach the same levels of conditioning and fitness as her male counter parts.

As for men being "specially designed" for conflict and combat I have a hard time with that. Look at nature. Tell that to a female lion who does all the hunting and killing and protection of the cubs. Tell that to the female hawk that does the same thing. As we are the human "animal" I find that women have the same potiential for combat. The only difference is that for the past 2,000 years societies train, teach, and hinder females from being combative, or in some cultures even from being assertive.

The ancient Celts their women fought alongside the men in battle often. And may men were trained for combat by women. over 2,000 years ago of course. The Isralie army has women in combat and have come to find that the females are some of their best soldiers and fighters.

But, we disagree on some of these things. So the perceptions and limitations of the mind is what will truely create the celing to what a person can do. This is an individual descision, and the individual decides what their limitations are. I'd ware people not to place unwarrented limitations on individuals espectially to generalize a group of individuals with undue limitations. You may find yourself unhappily surprised.

Now I did wonder about this because MMA relys so much on strength, so their may be merrit to women and men not being able to compete fairly. But a woman knows about a man's strength and compensates with skill, speed, and straight up creativity.

Being a practioner of a style where it is in my best interest to have a stronger, stiffer, and even larger opponent I just approach fighting differently. The last person male or female I want to have to fight is one that is relaxed, fast, and has impecable technique. But, I would wonder if the same ideal would still apply to MMA. For I have seen much technique that focuses more on positioning, leverage, and technique. So.....
Why not?

Now if we're talking about a straight up boxing match where all you could do is punch then matching a male and female would be unfair. But, in MMA you can use so much more, kicking, BJJ, grappling, throws, elbows, knees, (I would love to see people block more though! lol) but, you see this would be a sport where a female could do more against her opponent. So, there is more of a chance that she could win.

Plus, they have so many safety rules in effect that hardly anyone gets seriously injured anymore. They stop the fights when the person stops "responding" to being punched, or has taken too many blows to the head. I really think that the sport would be safe enough to give women a fair shake in the ring.

But, please don't start spouting off how men's reaction/reflexes are better, eyesight, testosterone levels are higher, etc...etc.. These things are all relative and selective to the individual. Or that men are just designed by "nature" for combat. Yes, they tend to have more physical attributes that can make them stronger. But, I've met men my size that had the very same tiny bone structure that I do, so again this is all relative to the individual. And this "nature" for combat is something that has been taught, and trained into the minds of men since possibly the beginning of time. And trained into the minds of women that we are just no good at combat, hunting, survivial, fighting. Silly I tell you.
It's all in the mind, the desire, the will of the individual.

But, this is a good thread. I like that folks are thinking about this. Especially if your a martial artist. This is something to seriously think about for competition and on a self defense level. Is this possible? Can it happen? Forget about the "santioning" of it all, just the ideal can it be done. Should it be done? Would this be good for the women and men alike?
Can we as a society open up and think more equally when it comes to women and men fighting in a ring and competing? Why, or why not? What's the hang up?

Si Je, If I take your thigh bone, and a male thigh bone of the Exact Same Size, the male thigh bone will have a different ossification structure, it will be Heavier and harder to break. It will repair faster if broken. This is not fiction. It is basic anatomy. And yup, men have more of their brains dedicated to vision than women, their visual cortex is larger on average. This is Adaptation, (see Darwin). Not my idea, Earth's, God's, Budda, Appolemer, (the God of Plastics.)
lori

 

[Si-Je]

Si Je, If I take your thigh bone, and a male thigh bone of the Exact Same Size, the male thigh bone will have a different ossification structure, it will be Heavier and harder to break. It will repair faster if broken. This is not fiction. It is basic anatomy. And yup, men have more of their brains dedicated to vision than women, their visual cortex is larger on average. This is Adaptation, (see Darwin). Not my idea, Earth's, God's, Budda, Appolemer, (the God of Plastics.)
lori

This may be true, but there is more to a fighter than bone density, strenth, or eyesight. (Although I know my eyesight and hearing is better than most men. I've been tested for flight twice.)
Hubbie is a personal trainer now and would totally agree with you, as I realize that much of this scientic fact is true. But, I still believe that with proper diet, training, dedication, and regimine a woman can and will perform very equally to the strength to her male counterparts in her weight class.

 

[Si-Je]

Women in Sports, Double Standard System of Discrimination
Si-Je
04/16/2009

Abstract
I wrote this in the standard APA format so I could legally quote sources and provide some “proof” to my ideals. These things I say online are not complete products of my own mind. I read a lot. I study, and I talk to many people that are in positions of employment that have knowledge of these subjects. Yes, I do speak from my own heart and mind, but these opinions (which are always subject to change on the receipt of new “facts&#8221 are not unbiased in fact or without a bit of research. Here is some research I found, as I don’t have a lot of time to research these things for everyone on here on every single post I make (which is becoming more and more necessary, it seems) I wrote only a small paper.

I’m going to school full-time and have a toddler to take care of at home and cannot devote huge amounts of time online proving or disproving statements when these statements made by all are equally opinion and conjecture. Why I am always called into question to prove my opinions, I’m not sure. Maybe because I have some conviction behind my ideals and maybe because I say things people don’t always want to hear.


Introduction

New studies have shown that women develop muscle much the same way as men. And as Stvalentine has stated in her article “Women’s Body Building – Women Build Muscle Just Like Men, “many times as a lot of women body builders have lifted weights equal to that of their male counterparts”. She also states that many people have the common misconception that women’s bodies are not able to sustain such rigorous training. (Stvalentine, 2008). As former member of the IFBB states in her article about the issues surrounding women in the body building circuit that many women are not considered “athletes” as their male counter parts. But, “just” a woman competing in a man’s world, excluding these ladies from the kind of sponsorship as the men are afforded. These men are able to make a living in the professional circuit with relative ease as compared to the women who do not have the same offers and frequency for competition as the men do.

As Lisa Bavington states that “There is a prevailing attitude that female athletes must exhibit a level of sexual attractiveness that appeals to an artificial standard of femininity.” If agree that this also crosses over to all sports that women compete in whether it is Soccer, Basketball, Body Building and especially MMA. She is also concerned with the serious issues of female athletes and these issues of body image developing into “the issues of body image and eating disorders, homophobia and heterosexism, and the over-sexualization of women in sport.” (Scott-Dixon, K., 2003)

This is all I’m going to write on this aspect of the subject. There is proof out there that is completely contrary to the common beliefs that women just don’t have enough testosterone, can’t pack on the muscle, or aren’t able to lift the same weight as their male counterparts in their weight class. This is slightly off the topic, but in many ways it is the heart of the very problem of women in any sport. The views of society are so strongly biased and seeped into the double standard that strong and athletic women are just not feminine and therefore the very idea of a female fighter, bodybuilder, or even professional athlete is just “unattractive”. These views are what twist and pervert a woman’s true potential as a professional athlete, not the composition of her body.

Science proves many things and then someone comes along and proves the “facts” as false. This happens almost every day, very few things are set in stone as unwavering “law” in science. So, to use so called scientific pseudo-fact to basically hinder and place limitations on any individual is just deplorable. Not to mention not consistent with the true spirit of science, experimentation. If these ideas or “theories” are not put to the test and experimented with to prove or disprove anyone’s idea or so called “truth” of the subject then it will always remain conjecture, prejedice, and discrimination based on ignorance. Only through experimentation can the facts be revealed on any subject, and only then can any statement be made in certainty what can be done and what cannot be done.

References:
Salvalentine, (05/07/2008), Women’s Body Building –Women Build Muscle Just Like Men, Now Public Website, retrieved; 04/17/2009 http://www.nowpublic.com/health/womens-body-building-women-build-muscle-just-men
Scott-Dixon, Krista, (06/22/2003), Weighting for equality: former professional Bodybuilder Lisa Bavington says the time to let go of sexism in her sport is long overdue, Herizons Magazine, retrieved; 04/16/2009 http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-4145400_ITM

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

Equal rights is great and IMO should be encouraged.

However people within society have prenotions of what is morally sound and women engaging in combat with men for entertainment has not been accepted by the majority. Woman in combat sports such as boxing have been engaging since the 1700's even fighting men.

http://www.womenboxing.com/historic.htm

But most likey the Boxing matches were not sanctioned until the 20th century. I think society is starting to get use to women boxing,women MMA thanks to positve influences in the movie industry and good role models such as Gina Carano but as of now Women vs Men in combat sports may have to wait until society catches up with it as an acceptable sport.

 

[Si-Je]

That is true about society not being ready for it yet. But for society to change, people have to change it.
This has always been so whether it was the abolition of slavery, women's rights to vote and work, etc.
It's taken people like Martian Luther King Jr. to make men equal that were of different color and stop segregation, and men like Lincoln to unify a warring country. The war protesters of the Vietnam era to stop a long horrible war, the people of America to elect Barak Obama.

For change to happen in society, people must inact that change, voice a need for it, support it, demand it, fight for it. It doesn't have to be a major majority of the people of a society to instill change. The American Revolution was fought by a minority of the colonists at that time. Many didn't want to seperate from England. In a few can inspire enough people in society to see the need for change then change can happen.

If no one does anyting and everyone just waits around for everyone else to "evolve" or change their thinking, nothing will change.

 

[FearlessFreep]

I'm sorry if I missed this as I've been gone awhile.

I think it's a bad idea for the simple reason that women and men are biologically different so even when the weights are the same, the bodies are much different, so there is no way to get a fair fight.

Gymnastics is I think the best example of a sport that has both Men and Women compete and yet tailors the events around the body strengths of the respective genders. Women don't do rings, which is all about upper body strength, which is not something women have much of (relatively). Men don't do balance beam, which is all about balance and control, which is not something men have much of (relatively). So the events cater to the strengths of the body style. Even the shared events, like floor exercise, are judge differently between men and women. So have a sport that both men a and women compete in, both their measurements are tailored toward the areas of excellence of their bodies and they are judged to that excellence, not to each other. Which is much different than something like track and field were both men and women compete but they all do the same events that just happen to be segregated by gender.

MMA is not quite the same. Quite frankly, it is a Man's game, and by that I simply mean that the rules and environment are really tailored for male bodies. Women who do it are relatively handicapped the same way, so it evens out. But put a man and a women together even at the same weight and the inherent biasing will put the woman at an unfair disadvantage. This is not to say that a good women can't beat a bad man, but an elite woman could not match an elite man at any weight (I feel).

Change the MMA rules to emphasize stamina (15-20 minute rounds?), speed (yes, in MMA speed is an advantage but not really a decisive factor), balance, control, pain tolerance, all those things that women are inherently stronger at than men and I don't think men could stand a chance against women, pound for pound, either.

Right now though, MMA rules, implicitly, favor raw, brute strength and explosive power (all other features like speed, reach, stamina, strategy are ways to set up delivering of that power) and biology favors men over women in that category. So even two fighters of the same weight will not be an even match on most days

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

Here is some research I found.

I am not sure if you put that up based on my post in response to you, but I have to tell you that there is no research in that article you listed. I'ts a statement with no proof to back it up. I am not asking for any extended study, I simply want 1 example of a woman in a professional body building/powerlifting type environment of competition that puts up the same weight numbers as their male counterparts in the same weight class. I have to say I honestly believe the comments you are making about this is made up, flat out wrong, and only being used to push a point that does not exist. No intent to hurt feelings here, this is just false information, I have had a fairly large amount off interest in the area of powerlifting, and have never ever come across anything similar to what the claims you are making suggest.

 

[jarrod]

i guess if you feel really strongly about it, you can be the first woman to do it!

good opportunity if you are passionate about it. there aren't a lot of trails left to blaze these days.

jf

 

[Andrew Green]

http://www.ontariopowerlifting.org/Records/records_powerlifting.htm

52 kgs
Women Open Total 360
Men Open Total 492.5

75 Kgs
Women Open Total 410
Men Open Total 722.5


Strength differences between men and women are there, it's a uneven playing field in weight lifting.
[FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][/FONT]

 

[Tez3]

Why on earth would women want to fight men and vice versa.? I and a few others are working our butts off trying to get women's MMA taken seriously as a sport, mens MMA isn't taken seriously yet everywhere so both mens and womens MMA has still a long way to go. In TMA comps men don't fight women, in athletics they don't compete against each other and no one things it's weird. The only sport I know of where men and women compete equally is equine sports.
I would much rather we concentrated on getting MMA the sport recognised as a proper sport not just as an alternative to WWE!
The MMA rules don't favour men at all, they don't favour anyone in particular which is right and proper. I disagree thats it's a mens sport, it's a fighter's sport.
I would be really upset if some woman ruins all the work we have been doing for MMA (the sport and as such genderless) by making a pointless fool of themselves against a male fighter. It would make us a laughing stock. We're not better, we're not worse, we're different.

 

[Si-Je]

Okay. "Women are Handicaped?" When they get in the ring together and pound it out and that makes it "even". What I'm trying to do is break through 2,000 years of gender role ideals, I guess.

If you don't think that article I quoted has any basis in fact, then take it up with the female professional bodybuilder that wrote it. And the other professional female bodybuilder that took the interview discussing the issues behind the fact that the sport is straight up biased.

Okay, gymnastics cater to the body type of the male or female. So does body building and MMA, etc. Is this right, or accurate? That is the question. But when in a fight, anything can happen, there are more factors involved than a coregraphed gymnastics session or bodybuilding competition. In body building women actually get graded against building "too much muscle bulk" because it's not "femine" to the female form. Does this mean a woman cannot build muscle mass? no. Just that the judges and "fans" don't want to see that.

Why would men and women want to fight eachother in the ring? How can you get women's MMA to be taken more seriously as a sport? I imagine the same hard way that you would with basketball, baseball, or anyother sport. Co-Ed competition. Women fighting women will never be taken seriously as a sport like the men's competition. Women playing basketball against women will never be taken seriously as much as men's basketball utill they compete together. When the teams are co-ed.

I've seen men make fun of women's basketball, soccer (or football), etc.., because they compete against eachother. It always comes down to the fact that a female athelete is just not as good as a man. I disagree.
I've known women that can out perform most men even professional athelete men and get no credit for it.

It's the way people think about gender roles, the hang-ups people have with what a man or a woman "should" be.
a man that attacks a woman and she has to defend herself already has the concept in her mind that she cannot do it because he is a man. His strenghth is better, etc..., defeating oneself in the mind. Same mind game in the ring, or on the court.

Okay, so alot of men won't want to fight and punch a woman in the ring. I respect that, but there are plenty that would, so lets try it out. See what happens. What if the woman won? What would be the "outcry" then. What if she lost? Would people just hate the man? That's a double standard and is wrong. Women would win and lose, just like men do when they fight eachother, just like women do when they fight other women.

To say it isn't safe? These women beat eachother up more visciously than most men I've seen in the ring. If a man beat a woman in the ring and "hurt" her (oh, the poor fighter, she got hurt. That happens, and they know that. To try to say it isn't safe is an insult to the female fighter.) Then they stop the fight, a winner is declared and you go on.
The same when men fight men and women fight women. Same same in any type of competition.

By the way. I did try to get some statictis from the Arnold Classic website, but I don't understand the point system. It's different for men and women, and they don't seem to list what the top male lifts and the top female. Like I said, don't have alot of time these days. Got a toddler at home all day and going to school fulltime. I did a quick research paper in like a couple of hours. I wanted to research more, and spend more time on the paper, but I just don't have that kind of time. Married, school, kiddo at home, busy, busy housewife. lol!
But,... I've seen women on T.V. when they do these competitions, and I have SEEN them do the very same if not one or two pounds under what men their same weight did. Don't have hardcopy of the stats, and can't find it online right now. If I had more time, I imagine I'd find it.

Talked to personal trainer hubbie, and he confirmed that women have lifted the same as men in their weight and told me where to go to find it. forgot. He's not at home much, working 2 jobs now.

But, regardless, what I was trying to do is see what people really think of this type of competition. MMA is extreme situation for co-ed competition, but what about other sports? Is it the same? Does MMA give a fighter enough versatility to compete against the opposite sex? Just ideas ya'll. Just checking out what "society" thinks about it.

Do you know when I was a girl I was a "weirdo" "butch" girl because I was a tomboy? Society thought it was stupid and weird (especially in Texas lol!) that I loved sports, martial arts, skateboarding? And, I did as a kiddo up into my teens and early twentys compete at a level with my male peers equally if not better? So, I could play Ball, and run, do martial arts well, and skateboard as good as any duder that I ran with, so that was weird. And "special", and different.
God! we're supposed to be living in the twenith century! (or when I was a kid lol!) now the 21st?! And now it's okay for girls to do sports, just not as good as a dude?
Bunk I tell you. Just bunk! lol! When I was a kid girls weren't even supposed to be able to hit a baseball and run around some stupid plates and play baseball, now it's okay, as long as it's in a "girl league".
Come on.
Time to evolve to the next step.
At least give it a shot. Can surfer chicks compete with the dudes out in the ocean? Is there some "factor" keeping a woman from surfing as good as a man on the unpredictable ocean? They ride the same waves on the same day! What's the difference?

Yeah, a woman will fight differently than a man, but will that difference make her lose? Are we afraid of women losing and getting hurt or are we afraid to see a woman win, and defeat a man? Whether it's MMA, baseball, basketball, surfing, skating, running, swimming, whatever sport, is the female athalete THAT inadequite in comparision to a man? Does MMA depend THAT much on strength? Does martial arts? (although I have a hard time comparing MMA to martial arts. sorry, just see it as depending too much on strength to be MA. No insult intended. Just see them as very different.) But, MMA is still a "sport" like anyother.

I just think that women in this sport of MMA work just as hard as the men if not harder and deserve to be seen as equal. If they need to fight co-ed to do it, then that might be the only way. Equality has never come easy for anyone seeking it.

 

[Si-Je]

I would be really upset if some woman ruins all the work we have been doing for MMA (the sport and as such genderless) by making a pointless fool of themselves against a male fighter. It would make us a laughing stock. We're not better, we're not worse, we're different.

I love ya Tez, but would a woman be a "laughing stock" for fighting and losing to a man? I would think at least a hero for having the guts to do it. Competition. Win or Lose, you DID IT. You can't win if you don't try.
To fail is to try, but to win is to try and do it. Someone has to try to win. If you don't try then you already lose.

If I saw a woman in the ring and fight and lose, then she would have honor in my heart forever. Just for doing it and getting in there. The biggest step.
"one small step for woman, one large step for womankind." lol! (sorry I'm kinda corney, and a bit of a silly heart, some call it foolheardy.)

But seriously. Are we as females more concerned about "losing face" than actually competing to be equal? That's a MAN's trait. Come on, girl. Afraid to be embarressed? Doesn't every fighter have that fear everytime they go in the ring? "what if I lose? What will people think?"

Okay, I'm starting to get where this is all going, and why.
When I used to skateboard, I'd bust my *** and fall. But, I'd get back up with the dudes, take the "hit". (which is worse than getting punched, dude. concrete sucks!) and skate on. It happens, you fall, get up and do it again and again and again. male or female.

If I was concerned about representing the entire female part of the species when skating I'd fall more. Nervous. That's alot of pressure. But, it was there anyway. I ignored it and skated on. You do it because you love it. screw everyone else. But, your just as good as the dudes. So recognize!
Don't chicken out because your afraid to "embarres" people. It's an individual thing. Every fighters different whether male or female.

I woman would make a "fool" of herself by competing with a man. You make me sad, dudeit. I just don't see it that way.

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

are you really serious?
besides being completely wrong on the data for weightlifting in weight classes between a man and a woman....here are the olympic records...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Olympic_records_in_weightlifting
huge difference, it takes a woman over 75KG to beat a man of 56KG in total lift. Please feel free to even look up the pictures and see the difference in body types and size between the weight lifters.
Please also feel free to go to any powerlifting, weightlifting records site, track and field, anything that records physical records between men and women and then please come back here and show me one that is even in the ball park. Those records are the absolute best women in their prospective sports as well, the drop off from the top to the tenth to the hundredth is huge in women, not nearly as much in men. The best Athletic Women in the world, are performing about equal to the best high school age men in the world.
If you can't accept that then go here.
http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/

The statistics are not hard to find. You just have to want to find them.
I don't know what you are trying to push with your denial of the facts. Noone said Women are dumber then men, less deserving then men in any way shape or form. Its simply a fact that women are not able to match up athletically with men, MMA is not as much about strategy and knowledge as it is about athleticism. I have seen plenty of men that are more well rounded martial artists lose to another man because that man was a much better athlete.

Absurd example incoming.....
I have no interest in getting in the cage with a 200 pound chimpanzee even if my ability and knowledge of all ranges of fighting are much more superior, the fact is I will probably end up with my lips, ears, and gentlemanly parts removed. The animal simply is built different then me, and while I may be able to overcome it, it is not likely.
sure its overkill, and not the same, but I think it makes my point a little bit.

If you are trying to argue that men and women are equal, or should be respected equally, then you wont get any argument from me. If you are trying to argue that womena nd men in sports should make the same, then I have to say sorry, the men in most sports, with an exception of a few draw much larger audiences, and draw much more money. I have no problem with a woman in sports making more then a man, I just don't want to have be told I have to watch a womans sport that does not interest me. I watch womens MMA, I enjoy great technique. I don't watch womens basketball, its slow, average and I see more fun stuff in the pick up games down by the beach. I want to be entertained when I watch a sport regardless of gender. Mens sports seem to have bigger, faster, almost unreal athletes doing things that seem almost unreal. Thats what I like to watch.

 

[AoCAdam]

No way. That would never be sanctioned. I am all for women fighting each other, but guys vs girls is a totally different ballgame even if they happen to be at the same weight.