Christian Martial Arts

[bart]

Hey All,

It's interesting but a lot of Filipino Martial Arts have Christian undertones such as San Miguel Eskrima and Tres Personas. There is a group here in Sacramento called Warriors of Righteousness that does the Estalilla Kabaroan system.

Considerations have to be taken into account to for whether the art is taught as a cultural art as with Gatka and the Sikhs. It's difficult to secularize some arts as the religious aspect pervades that symbols and analogies an art may use to teach such as "Buddha hand" in some kung fu, and the Crucifix form in some eskrima.

 

[terryl965]

I've read the whole post as far as I can, I personally believe in God and so be it. That does not give me the right to influence people about my religous preference. My job as a Dojaang owner is to teach the Art and sport of TKD to my student body, that is what they pay me to do. Now on the other hand if my Dojaang was part of a church or prayer center then I would be expected to include that religous aspect into my teaching. God is everywhere even in the Dojaang but most imporantly he is in your heart no matter if you practice your Art on top of the city dumb, he is there with you step by step. In case you asked later no I'm not Christian base my wife and boy's are Catholics and I'm Jewish we attend a Catholic church. I believe that every individual has the right to choice there way of thinking, one can only be influence if they choice to be.

 

[The Kai]

http://ambassadormartialarts.org/abc/index.php?p=56
Check out this link. Over the top or what

What about a instructor that states "you can't understand the Martial Arts if you are not christian"
???
Todd

 

[Ray]

There's no right, and there's no wrong. It becomes wrong when you FORCE your opinion on someone, and the try to hold them accountable.

IMO, there are some things that are clearly wrong (1st degree murder to name one).

 

[Ray]

I don't see the need to put a Christian spin on the Martial Arts. When I became a student of the Martial Arts, I didn't immediately accept all things Asian either.

If I want to have a cross in my studio then I will. If I want to have "pass along" cards or free scriptures available then I will. But I don't have these things in my studio.

If I happen to live my life in such a way that prompts someone to ask about my beliefs then I'll share them in any place, at any time.

 

[rmclain]

It really surprises me that religious views in the dojang are an issue. I've never been in a dojang where religion was part of the training or curriculum. I've taught around 1200 students at my own school and through the UT-Arlington kinesiology department since 1994. In this time, there has never been a student come to me asking my religious affiliation or for a class with religion taught with the martial art.

R. McLain

 

[VSanhodo]

After reading the various posts related to this topic. I would like to offer my opinion on this subject. I believe, Martial Sciences and Religion are one and the same. I believe and teach that the martial sciences are the fighting sciences of the Angels given to us through them and God. Perhaps extreme for some, but my belief nonetheless. Be you religious or not. It is amazing to see how many ppl train yet how very very few truly know the Art itself. Beating the living daylights out of ppl isnt art, Thats pugilism, very barbaris and primal. Compare the vlaues, ethics and morals which are suppose to be part of Martial Sciences and compare them to Biblical text or your religion. Usually they follow the same path.
Study, train, learn and share.
God bless

San

 

[MichiganTKD]

Christianity doesn't belong in martial arts any more than Buddhism belongs in martial arts. Both are religions, and religion should be something personal. The philosophical and moral foundations of traditional martial arts are based on principles universal to all faiths (peacefulness, nonviolence etc.) So if you practice "Christian" martial arts because you think martial arts are too "Buddhist" otherwise, you are missing the point.
For the record, several of our Instructors are devoutly Christian, and have never expressed a problem with any aspect of Tae Kwon Do. They understand Tae Kwon Do is not religion and should not be used to promote any religion. In my opinion, Instructors who use martial arts to promote a Christian viewpoint are just as clueless as those who think you have to act like a Buddhist monk to really understand martial arts.

 

[bignick]

There's a Christian taekwondo school in my town. Never had any real compulsion to check it out, but I've always had just a tiny bit of curiosity of what that would be like...most likely not for me...one of my favorite quotes comes from a buddy of mine. If you've ever lived in dorms on a university campus you've probably had a flyer or something put on your door for some sort of Bible study or other activity. Well, one day I'm standing in the hallway talking to another friend and my buddy comes out of his room, looks at this flyer for some Christian event or group and he just tears it off his door looks around and says, "Stop forcing my religion on me..."

 

[still learning]

Hello, In Kajukenpo, they start their class with a prayer. We have the same exact prayer in Universal Kempo too. All students are not require to do the prayer if their beliefs are different.

In a way the martial arts is a religion, you need to believe in it. Teaches respect and caring for others. Taking a life for no reason is taught in most schools.

For others the words " Christian martial arts " is for those who find this is important enough for them to belong in the same beliefs, and like being with other Christians too. Like a second church. Everyone has their own opinions and right to belong to something.

At my parents home in Oahu, on the main street between our high school and my parents house at the top end, there is 13 churches on a three mile stretch of road, all different too. No Martial arts schools. .....Not to believe is to believe in nothing.......so we all believe in something....Aloha

 

[The Kai]

After reading the various posts related to this topic. I would like to offer my opinion on this subject. I believe, Martial Sciences and Religion are one and the same. I believe and teach that the martial sciences are the fighting sciences of the Angels given to us through them and God. Perhaps extreme for some, but my belief nonetheless. Be you religious or not. It is amazing to see how many ppl train yet how very very few truly know the Art itself. Beating the living daylights out of ppl isnt art, Thats pugilism, very barbaris and primal. Compare the vlaues, ethics and morals which are suppose to be part of Martial Sciences and compare them to Biblical text or your religion. Usually they follow the same path.
Study, train, learn and share.
God bless

San

The only thing is the angles first gave thier knowledge to, according to most christain doctrines, heathens (the orientals). Seems kinda of a strech that the angels would choose to give the knowledge outside yor clan?>
Todd

 

[The Kai]

I think most people forget why the Martial arts came about in the first place.

Karate-A form of guerilla warfare.
Juijitsu(Judo)-battlefield tactics employed whern you were stripped of or otherwise without your weapons.
Kung Fu- various either tactics and metyhods used by solidier or civian self defense tactics

All these arts were designed to fight!! The philosophy, tenets and codes of conduct are later additions to the arts. So would it matter if it is codified by eastern or western beliefs
Todd

 

[Sin]

If it is a christian MA.....correct me if i am wrong, but dosn't Jesus say to turn the ther cheek.

although he says treat others as you would want to be treated.....A paradox

 

[7starmantis]

There seems to be alot of strong feelings on this subject. In my opinion this is what makes America what it is. I know there are those not in the US here, but in free societies the owner of a business is free to do and conduct business with whomever they choose. Why so much cut and dry here? If a MA school owner wants to put up a bible in the school so what? Isn't that his/her prerogative as a free business owner? What if a schools owner wants to put up a book of satan, isn't that their prerogative as a free business owner? If it offends you, find another place to train or deal with it.
These differences are what make us as humans beautiful. I tend to enjoy the differences of other people, I think its awesome. I dont think the study of MA has anything to do with religion or faith, but thats just my take on it. I'm not arrogant enough to say my views are the only way or even the right way.

7sm

7sm

 

[Sin]

There seems to be alot of strong feelings on this subject. In my opinion this is what makes America what it is. I know there are those not in the US here, but in free societies the owner of a business is free to do and conduct business with whomever they choose. Why so much cut and dry here? If a MA school owner wants to put up a bible in the school so what? Isn't that his/her prerogative as a free business owner? What if a schools owner wants to put up a book of satan, isn't that their prerogative as a free business owner? If it offends you, find another place to train or deal with it.
These differences are what make us as humans beautiful. I tend to enjoy the differences of other people, I think its awesome. I dont think the study of MA has anything to do with religion or faith, but thats just my take on it. I'm not arrogant enough to say my views are the only way or even the right way.

7sm

7sm

::claps:: here here

That was perfectly said!!

 

[AnimEdge]

I know the Ninjutsu i study has a lot of 'Cristian' Belelif stuff in it like our Creed and so on that Bussey added on when he started RBWI but uh we dont really use them

 

[Miles]

From a purely physical standpoint-all martial arts techniques are amoral and without any religious underpinnings. However, the atmosphere in which they may be taught can have religious themes. Is it right to have them or wrong not to have them? I think the answer to both is "no."

But if you do train in a school which incorporates religious themes, I don't think that you are necessarily getting shortchanged-they are not softening the arts. They are merely adding a different dimension.

Miles

 

[Makalakumu]

I know of one instructor who teaches "Christian kung fu." This is fine, but he's somewhat exclusionary and expects his students to wear crosses on their sashes and (I think) begin practice with a prayer. When they do a salutation they're "calling down the holy spirit."

My partner at my 2nd dan test runs his dojang out of a fundamentalist church. I have gone to visit him on occasion and I have had the priviledge of teaching a few classes there.

They start class with the regular salutation that we learned from our instructor. The only difference is that between the American and Korean flags is the Cross. When we sit down and meditate, all students offer a prayer asking Jesus to aid them with their practice. Then the students stand and bow to their instructor.

The rest of class continues just like any other MA class. They do the same techniques that other secular students of the MA do. They have the same ranks and lists. They use the traditional Korean terms. And they Kihap just as loudly as anyone else in our art (it was later explained that the kihap was an expression of the Holy Spirit...like a very loud prayer).

Class ends with the same salutation to the flags/cross and then the instructor reads a pre-chosen bible passage to help the students understand the moral aspects of the art they practice from a Christian perspective.

I found this to be a powerful experience and I wish that I could remember some of the readings chosen because I was surprised at the relevence to MA training.

In this situation, the melding of religion and MA is entirely appropriate. To the students in dojang, praying to Jesus for guidance and looking to the bible for moral direction is their long time family tradition. I imagine that many of these students would pass over MA if they did not have the opportunity provided by my fellow Brother of the Spear.

upnorthkyosa

ps - The lesson I learned from this experience is that a certain amount of moral teaching is essential for the practice of our art. I now do the same in my dojang. However, I am not a Christian, so I do not limit my selections to the bible.

 

[Makalakumu]

I think most people forget why the Martial arts came about in the first place.

Karate-A form of guerilla warfare.
Juijitsu(Judo)-battlefield tactics employed whern you were stripped of or otherwise without your weapons.
Kung Fu- various either tactics and metyhods used by solidier or civian self defense tactics

All these arts were designed to fight!! The philosophy, tenets and codes of conduct are later additions to the arts. So would it matter if it is codified by eastern or western beliefs
Todd

There is a big difference between Bujutsu and Budo. The founder of Judo - Jigoro Kano, the founder of Shotokan - Gichin Funikoshi, and the founder of Aikido - Morihei Uyeshiba all had a lot to say about the moral aspects of their arts.

Therefore, I would posit that history isn't a real good yardstick to measure this problem. I believe that the founders' intentions speak more to issue.

upnorthkyosa

 

[Corporal Hicks]

There seems to be alot of strong feelings on this subject. In my opinion this is what makes America what it is. I know there are those not in the US here, but in free societies the owner of a business is free to do and conduct business with whomever they choose. Why so much cut and dry here? If a MA school owner wants to put up a bible in the school so what? Isn't that his/her prerogative as a free business owner? What if a schools owner wants to put up a book of satan, isn't that their prerogative as a free business owner? If it offends you, find another place to train or deal with it.
These differences are what make us as humans beautiful. I tend to enjoy the differences of other people, I think its awesome. I dont think the study of MA has anything to do with religion or faith, but thats just my take on it. I'm not arrogant enough to say my views are the only way or even the right way.

7sm

7sm

Agreed!

What I dont think is right however is that sometimes you simply want to train in a Martial Art and you go to a school, maybe in a church (say judo art) and you start training but before they train they say a prayer or something that is related to some religious teaching and they then you are ask you to recite it with them or to them.
Ok fair enough if its part of the art but if its part of their religion then no, especially if your not religious and especially if they tell you you cannot train unless you do so.


QUOTE = Miles
From a purely physical standpoint-all martial arts techniques are amoral and without any religious underpinnings.

-------------------------

Good point! Religious morals and beliefs are 'attached' to a Martial Art, its your choice what you want to do, kinda JKD in a way!
Everybody to their own I'd say!