Traditional Martial Arts - What's It Good For?

[Tony Dismukes]

I suppose I presumed (perhaps erroneously) that since Japanese arts such as flower arranging, tea-making, and calligraphy offer a 'deeper interpretation' or a 'way' (do), it was unique to Japanese (or Okinawan) martial arts.

I don't think it is, although the Japanese "do" arts may have a particular flavor in how they express those concepts. (If it was unique to Japanese arts, then it would raise the question of what distinguishes traditional arts from China, Korea, Thailand, Indonesia, Europe, etc.)

The details you offered I don't believe are culturally specific. I do think they are reflective of how a particular individual may approach their study of the martial arts. You and I may appreciate those aspect of training, but I've known lots of karateka and lots of BJJ practitioners who do not. I've also known plenty of people in a variety of arts who do give lip service to similar concepts but you couldn't tell it by watching how they live or train.

 

[hoshin1600]

If a martial art says it does beating up and doesn't. Why should I believe it does anything it claims?

Part of martial arts for me is about removing self deception.

I agree fully. For a long time it angered me that MA were making what I saw as false claims. As a young teen I fell for these claims and as I matured I knew better and it angered me for sometime. Not anymore. I do what I do and hopefully others listen and see what I do and maybe they will figure it out sooner than I did.

 

[Xue Sheng]

admittedly my thought processes are somewhat skewed but the very first thing that popped into my demented little noggin when I saw the title of this thread was


Traditional martial arts, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Traditional martial arts, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it again, why'all

Traditional martial arts, huh, good god
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing, listen to me

Oh, traditional martial arts, I despise
'Cause it means destruction of innocent lives

Traditional martial arts means tears to thousands of mothers eyes
When their sons go to fight
And lose the match

I said, traditional martial arts, huh good god, why'all
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing say it again

Traditional martial arts, whoa, lord
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing, listen to me

it ain't nothing but a heart-breaker
(Traditional martial arts) friend only to the big ole faker
Oh, traditional martial arts it's an enemy to all mankind
The point of traditional martial arts blows my mind
Traditional martial arts has caused unrest
Within the younger generation
Induction then destruction
Who wants…

it ain't nothing but a heart-breaker
(Traditional martial arts) friend only to the big ole faker
Oh, traditional martial arts it's an enemy to all mankind
The point of traditional martial arts blows my mind
Traditional martial arts has caused unrest
Within the younger generation
Induction then destruction
Who wants to die, ah, traditional martial arts-huh, good god why'all
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it, say it, say it
Traditional martial arts, huh
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing listen to me

it ain't nothing but a heart breaker
(Traditional martial arts) it's got one friend that's the big ole faker
Oh, traditional martial arts, has shattered many a young mans dreams
Made him disabled, bitter and mean
Life is much to short and precious
To spend fighting traditional martial artss these days
Traditional martial arts can't give life
It can only take it away

Oh, traditional martial arts, huh good god why'all
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing say it again

whoa, lord
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing listen to me

it ain't nothing but a heart breaker
(Traditional martial arts) friend only to the big ole faker
Peace, love and understanding
Tell me, is there no place for them today
They say we must fight to keep our freedom
But lord knows there's got to be a better way

Oh, traditional martial arts, huh good god why'all
What is it good for you tell me
Say it, say it, say it, say it

huh good god why'all
What is it good for
Stand up and shout it nothing

Sorry...I'll go now

 

[jobo]

admittedly my thought processes are somewhat skewed but the very first thing that popped into my demented little noggin when I saw the title of this thread was


Traditional martial arts, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Traditional martial arts, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it again, why'all

Traditional martial arts, huh, good god
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing, listen to me

Oh, traditional martial arts, I despise
'Cause it means destruction of innocent lives

Traditional martial arts means tears to thousands of mothers eyes
When their sons go to fight
And lose the match

I said, traditional martial arts, huh good god, why'all
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing say it again

Traditional martial arts, whoa, lord
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing, listen to me

it ain't nothing but a heart-breaker
(Traditional martial arts) friend only to the big ole faker
Oh, traditional martial arts it's an enemy to all mankind
The point of traditional martial arts blows my mind
Traditional martial arts has caused unrest
Within the younger generation
Induction then destruction
Who wants…

it ain't nothing but a heart-breaker
(Traditional martial arts) friend only to the big ole faker
Oh, traditional martial arts it's an enemy to all mankind
The point of traditional martial arts blows my mind
Traditional martial arts has caused unrest
Within the younger generation
Induction then destruction
Who wants to die, ah, traditional martial arts-huh, good god why'all
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it, say it, say it
Traditional martial arts, huh
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing listen to me

it ain't nothing but a heart breaker
(Traditional martial arts) it's got one friend that's the big ole faker
Oh, traditional martial arts, has shattered many a young mans dreams
Made him disabled, bitter and mean
Life is much to short and precious
To spend fighting traditional martial artss these days
Traditional martial arts can't give life
It can only take it away

Oh, traditional martial arts, huh good god why'all
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing say it again

whoa, lord
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing listen to me

it ain't nothing but a heart breaker
(Traditional martial arts) friend only to the big ole faker
Peace, love and understanding
Tell me, is there no place for them today
They say we must fight to keep our freedom
But lord knows there's got to be a better way

Oh, traditional martial arts, huh good god why'all
What is it good for you tell me
Say it, say it, say it, say it

huh good god why'all
What is it good for
Stand up and shout it nothing

Sorry...I'll go now

that was my thought as well,

 

[Buka]

And mine. Oh, lord, there's no hope for us.

 

[shihansmurf]

Same here. Its good to know I'm in good company.

 

[FighterTwister]

I read a while back about a group of people restoring the lost or forgotten martial art styles so they are not lost into history.

I can't find or remember who they are or if it was a YouTube for that matter but I do think its important and worth supporting if you find the source link it and support them with info or sources etc.

So basically we do need people learning and committing to the martial arts of choice in any of these categories listed here:- List of martial arts - Wikipedia

This link is also worth mentioning on this thread:- Other arts you would like to try

 

[Gerry Seymour]

My issue is with this idea that TMA is how you say it is though.

this is etheopian stick fighting and about as traditional as you can get.

And these guys brawl.

"TMA" is one of those slippery terms to deal with. For many with a JMA/CMA background, "TMA" tends to refer to the more-or-less traditional approaches from those cultures (often, even only the one culture their training comes from). And then we get into what is "traditional" even within one of those cultures. For some, what I teach is TMA. For others, it's not "traditional", but "modern".

I sometimes forget to ask people (when they use the term TMA/traditional) to clarify what they mean, since there's little consistency.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I am inclined to think all legitimate and well taught and learned MA have application for fighting prowess. Not all students do, regardless of what they learn, or don't.

That would tend to be my view, but I acknowledge that there are things within the area of "MA" that aren't all that directly applicable to fighting prowess/competency. And if those things are separated out and trained separately, many folks still consider that a MA.

There's a hazy line in there somewhere between MA and something not-MA that was derived from MA. I don't know where that line is, and I won't use the term "legitimate" to designate only those I agree with...in most cases (nothing is that black-and-white).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

i can agree with the sentiment but its not a truth when you look at the larger picture.
i think you are looking at certain arts you are familiar with and noticing that some schools and people can fight and some cant. thus the conclusion to be reached is "all legitimate and well taught and learned MA have application for fighting prowess". but on a larger scale Kyudo archery is a martial art and has no path to fighting prowess. the same as many sword arts. some arts exist today as merely an art and the people who practice them have no interest in such things as fighting. so the logical conclusion there is that at one time they might have had some connection to fighting in one way or other but that they have lost that essence and now represent something different. according to a National Health Interview survey there are 2.5 million Tai Chi practitioners and an additional 500,000 Qi Gong practitioners in the US and an estimated 48 million in China. most of them have no interest in fighting.
you cannot teach something you never learnt yourself.
so how could they teach an art of fighting? those skills have long been lost.

Tai Chi is one of those "hazy line" things, to me. If I go to the local park and join a Saturday Tai Chi group to work on my stability, I wouldn't consider I'm training a martial art. If I go to a school that teaches Tai Chi with combat application, I would consider I'm training a martial art. Somewhere, there's a program in Tai Chi where I wouldn't be sure if I was joining a martial art or not.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

admittedly my thought processes are somewhat skewed but the very first thing that popped into my demented little noggin when I saw the title of this thread was


Traditional martial arts, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Traditional martial arts, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it again, why'all

Traditional martial arts, huh, good god
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing, listen to me

Oh, traditional martial arts, I despise
'Cause it means destruction of innocent lives

Traditional martial arts means tears to thousands of mothers eyes
When their sons go to fight
And lose the match

I said, traditional martial arts, huh good god, why'all
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing say it again

Traditional martial arts, whoa, lord
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing, listen to me

it ain't nothing but a heart-breaker
(Traditional martial arts) friend only to the big ole faker
Oh, traditional martial arts it's an enemy to all mankind
The point of traditional martial arts blows my mind
Traditional martial arts has caused unrest
Within the younger generation
Induction then destruction
Who wants…

it ain't nothing but a heart-breaker
(Traditional martial arts) friend only to the big ole faker
Oh, traditional martial arts it's an enemy to all mankind
The point of traditional martial arts blows my mind
Traditional martial arts has caused unrest
Within the younger generation
Induction then destruction
Who wants to die, ah, traditional martial arts-huh, good god why'all
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it, say it, say it
Traditional martial arts, huh
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing listen to me

it ain't nothing but a heart breaker
(Traditional martial arts) it's got one friend that's the big ole faker
Oh, traditional martial arts, has shattered many a young mans dreams
Made him disabled, bitter and mean
Life is much to short and precious
To spend fighting traditional martial artss these days
Traditional martial arts can't give life
It can only take it away

Oh, traditional martial arts, huh good god why'all
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing say it again

whoa, lord
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing listen to me

it ain't nothing but a heart breaker
(Traditional martial arts) friend only to the big ole faker
Peace, love and understanding
Tell me, is there no place for them today
They say we must fight to keep our freedom
But lord knows there's got to be a better way

Oh, traditional martial arts, huh good god why'all
What is it good for you tell me
Say it, say it, say it, say it

huh good god why'all
What is it good for
Stand up and shout it nothing

Sorry...I'll go now

Your mind wandered for WAY too long on that, Xue.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Same here. Its good to know I'm in good company.

I'm not sure I'd call those folks "good company.

 

[Ironbear24]

Martial arts to me, I feel that martial arts has no meaning. You give it meaning because martial arts is what you make of it.

For me personally Martial arts for me is a lot like weight lifting, challenging myself, meeting goals and breaking new ceilings. When one is broken, there is another one for me to break as I become stronger and stronger by breaking new found limitations.

 

[drop bear]

"TMA" is one of those slippery terms to deal with. For many with a JMA/CMA background, "TMA" tends to refer to the more-or-less traditional approaches from those cultures (often, even only the one culture their training comes from). And then we get into what is "traditional" even within one of those cultures. For some, what I teach is TMA. For others, it's not "traditional", but "modern".

I sometimes forget to ask people (when they use the term TMA/traditional) to clarify what they mean, since there's little consistency.

Yeah somone suggested at one point the separation should be good and crap. Not TMA and whatever.

The issue is then you just put them all on an even playing field. Which then does not give martial arts an excuse.

 

[oftheherd1]

Tai Chi is one of those "hazy line" things, to me. If I go to the local park and join a Saturday Tai Chi group to work on my stability, I wouldn't consider I'm training a martial art. If I go to a school that teaches Tai Chi with combat application, I would consider I'm training a martial art. Somewhere, there's a program in Tai Chi where I wouldn't be sure if I was joining a martial art or not.

I know next to nothing about Tai Chi. But I once saw a practitioner demonstrate a form from Tai Chi. Looked similar to other art's forms, and he was definitely exhibiting a lot of power in his form. Since, I have sort of figured that there must be a side that we usually think of, where there are slow movements, and another side that is unmistakenly what anybody would consider a MA, and maybe even uses the same kata. I've never gotten into it enough to know.

 

[FighterTwister]

If a martial art says it does beating up and doesn't. Why should I believe it does anything it claims?

Part of martial arts for me is about removing self deception.

Political correctness gone mad yeah and the stupid politics of anything nowadays everyone want's to be right and tell's the other you are wrong.

Or better said...........

"Whats wrong is right and whats right is wrong"

To many weirdos in this current age if you ask me sitting and plotting crap and up to no good!

Its why I'm really beginning to hate the birth of the internet to some extent, take me back to the 1980's for me it was a better and happier time than now. Todays world is freaking loony and getting worse by the day, sad really sad.



Martial Arts is in principle (hard-coded form) or true essence............... "THE ART OF FIGHTING"!

Then its either defensive or offensive - (attacking) in methodology, there lays within that statement the facts of all that is martial arts even in boxing!

 

[Flying Crane]

Each TMA was a cutting-edge methodology, one-upon-a-time. It was developed as a method that worked.

If they are still being practiced today, then there must be something about them that still works.

Different strokes for different folks. If an older method works for you and you enjoy the training, then do it. If a more recently developed approach works for you and you enjoy it, do it.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Your mind wandered for WAY too long on that, Xue.

Waaaaaay back in the old days...when I use to go out to bars with friends....there were times when the way my demented mind worked....terrified them all