Why most martial arts don't work in self defense.

[Buka]

I love two knuckle push ups almost as much as I love pizza.

 

[Tez3]

My mother in law does not train MA. She has

- knee problem,
- back problem, and
- arthritis in her hands.

I have trained MA all my life. I don't have such issue.

I'm still running 3 miles 3 times a week. As long as my knees are OK, I'll keep running. I believe if I don't use it, I'll lose it.

She doesn't have those things because she didn't do martial arts but for various reasons that may well have been out of her control. Back problems are often caused by having children, likewise knees. she may have had arthritis in her hands from washing, ironing, looking after a family perhaps plus an outside job, or she may have had it even if she'd done martial arts. You are making an unfair comparison, unkind too.

 

[drop bear]

as i said most of what your saying has truth but is being drastically over stated as your running through your own prism of reality

your doing security, its your job to deal with the hulking guy throwing those shots. but doing MMA is not the default setting for bouncers in general,

they seem to rely on being big strong and having mates to take the big guy down.

if they in general haven't defaulted to your reality to deal with the same issue its a bit rich that, that your insisting that people who do their level best to avoid trouble need to follow your example

lets face it, doing ma as an adult is odd to start off with, most people live long and happy lives with out it. thers a fairly good chance that those that do, do it are better prepared than the population in general, particularly those like me who are well past the first flush of youth.

That big guy throwing mean punches, will probably take me out no matter what i do, but then its seems extremely unlikely that he will try to punch me at all,if i dont antagonise him and just choose to move/leave if he takes a dislike to me. but then im fairly big and can throw mean punches myself... i generally just report aggressive knob heads to the bouncers, thats their job

Yeah. Because results don't matter self defense can be trained more like LARP. than with any serious intent.

And being big and having friends is the ultimate martial arts anyway.

Unfortunately this also seems to upset self defense instructiors who seem to think they could stop hulking man throwing punches with intent.

 

[drop bear]

This is my point. If you train MA, and most guys that you have to fight on the street don't train MA, if you can't handle yourself, it just make no logical sense.

Most new students cannot do too many fist push up (flat fist surface). If one can't do fist push up, how hard can he punch on a hard surface (such as the head) without hurting his own hand?

Maybe they are big and have friends.

 

[jobo]

Yeah. Because results don't matter self defense can be trained more like LARP. than with any serious intent.

And being big and having friends is the ultimate martial arts anyway.

Unfortunately this also seems to upset self defense instructiors who seem to think they could stop hulking man throwing punches with intent.

your just building a straw man, results can not be Guaranteed for anybody, once you accept that then its much clearer, every one picks a bogeyman and then trains to meet that expectation

what you an reasonably expect to happen, big guy throwing mean punches, is an extremely unlikely scenario for me and if were to happen, there wouldn't be much i could do about it anyway, no matter what i trained

and more bizarrely the only way i could train to meet that, would be to let a big guy punch me whilst i worked out how to stop him

so the only way to learn how to stop a big guy from scrambling my brains is to let a big guy scramble my brains. can you not see that most people wouldn't think that a logical solution to the problem.

its the remote possibility against almost certain brain damage

 

[dvcochran]

This is my point. If you train MA, and most guys that you have to fight on the street don't train MA, if you can't handle yourself, it just make no logical sense.

Most new students cannot do too many fist push up (flat fist surface). If one can't do fist push up, how hard can he punch on a hard surface (such as the head) without hurting his own hand?

I get what you are saying to a degree. When I do pushups they are with a closed fist, but I know my hands are not nearly as 'tough' as they used to be. The best tool to achieve what you are talking about is a makiwara board IMHO. Start with a smooth(er) one and work your way up.
When I was actively taking Kali we dropped and caught 8-10-12 pound steel shot balls. It improved your grip very effectively but did nothing for the sensation of impact to the fist. That is where the boards came into play.

 

[drop bear]

your just building a straw man, results can not be Guaranteed for anybody, once you accept that then its much clearer, every one picks a bogeyman and then trains to meet that expectation

what you an reasonably expect to happen, big guy throwing mean punches, is an extremely unlikely scenario for me and if were to happen, there wouldn't be much i could do about it anyway, no matter what i trained

and more bizarrely the only way i could train to meet that, would be to let a big guy punch me whilst i worked out how to stop him

so the only way to learn how to stop a big guy from scrambling my brains is to let a big guy scramble my brains. can you not see that most people wouldn't think that a logical solution to the problem.

its the remote possibility against almost certain brain damage

Of course. The old you sould not have laws because criminals will just break them argument.

There isn't a 100% and 0% argument.

If a method of training raises the percentage of success that is the method you probably want to go for.

And as far as dealing with heavy punches. You need to factor in that the person throwing those punches doesn't want to rape you or kill you or something. So it is logical to experience a fight in a controlled environment to be prepared for a less controlled one.

 

[jobo]

Of course. The old you sould not have laws because criminals will just break them argument.

There isn't a 100% and 0% argument.

If a method of training raises the percentage of success that is the method you probably want to go for.

And as far as dealing with heavy punches. You need to factor in that the person throwing those punches doesn't want to rape you or kill you or something. So it is logical to experience a fight in a controlled environment to be prepared for a less controlled one.

no, getting punched in the head a lot, is not a sensible idea, not if you want your wits about you when your my age

ive dealt with my bogeyman, im well above averagely strong and quite fit and co ordinated, theres very few people % wise who can just over power me, im not however 25 any more, so theres an upper limit on who a can expect to fight and win, but then i get in so many less fights than when i was 25, that it matters less and less

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Maybe they are big and have friends.

But you may be big and have friends too.

This is why I don't like the term "self-defense". People always assume that their opponents are stronger, bigger, faster, ... The purpose of MA training is to make yourself stronger, bigger, faster, ...

If you can build your body like this, you will let your opponent to worry about SD.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

She doesn't have those things because she didn't do martial arts but for various reasons that may well have been out of her control. Back problems are often caused by having children, likewise knees. she may have had arthritis in her hands from washing, ironing, looking after a family perhaps plus an outside job, or she may have had it even if she'd done martial arts. You are making an unfair comparison, unkind too.

If you (general YOU) doesn't treat exercise as the most important part of your life, that can be the major problem. The exercise habit require to be developed during the young age. If you miss just one day work out, you will feel guilty, you are on the correct path.

I believe if you work out properly daily, your chance to have

- knee problem,
- back problem, and
- arthritis in her hands.

will be reduced.

 

[drop bear]

no, getting punched in the head a lot, is not a sensible idea, not if you want your wits about you when your my age

ive dealt with my bogeyman, im well above averagely strong and quite fit and co ordinated, theres very few people % wise who can just over power me, im not however 25 any more, so theres an upper limit on who a can expect to fight and win, but then i get in so many less fights than when i was 25, that it matters less and less

So self defense instruction should put a glass ceiling on your training?

What if you turned around tomorrow and suddenly wanted to become better?

 

[drop bear]

But you may be big and have friends too.

This is why I don't like the term "self-defense". People always assume that their opponents are stronger, bigger, faster, ... The purpose of MA training is to make yourself stronger, bigger, faster, ...

If you can build your body like this, you will let your opponent to worry about SD.

I think the purpose of growth is to challenge yourself.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

My mother in law does not train MA. She has

- knee problem,
- back problem, and
- arthritis in her hands.

I have trained MA all my life. I don't have such issue.

I'm still running 3 miles 3 times a week. As long as my knees are OK, I'll keep running. I believe if I don't use it, I'll lose it.

I'm 26. I've got knee and elbow problems cause by MA, back problems that may be helped or hurt by MA, I'm not sure, and some memory issues that may be a result of all the concussions I've got. A single person isn't a good example for determining if something helps or hurts health, particularly when there's no control involved (ie: spending a year doing MA, every three months filling out a survey on various health things, then spending a year not doing MA and every 3 months fill out the same survey).

Also, I would guess that your mother in law is significantly older than you.

 

[Flying Crane]

But you may be big and have friends too.

This is why I don't like the term "self-defense". People always assume that their opponents are stronger, bigger, faster, ... The purpose of MA training is to make yourself stronger, bigger, faster, ...

If you can build your body like this, you will let your opponent to worry about SD.

You don't look like this.

 

[jobo]

So self defense instruction should put a glass ceiling on your training?

What if you turned around tomorrow and suddenly wanted to become better?

no nature and old age put a ceiling on your training, along with a realisation that getting punched in the head is not a sensible past time and since i stopped being a complete **** i dont get in anywhere as many situations or maybe i stopped being such an **** when i realised i cant back it up like i once did ?

i dont train to deal with bear attacks, even drop bears are off my radar, because the chances of it happening are very small, and it would be complexly pointless

 

[Sifu Ni]

good summary

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I think the purpose of growth is to challenge yourself.

You can challenge yourself in "iron-man training" that does not require opponent. To challenge yourself is just to general.

I believe the purpose of MA training is to develop some "door guarding" skill that can be used to defense yourself, and also can be used to defend your family members. When someone cannot defense himself, he has not developed his "door guarding" skill yet.

 

[drop bear]

no nature and old age put a ceiling on your training, along with a realisation that getting punched in the head is not a sensible past time and since i stopped being a complete **** i dont get in anywhere as many situations or maybe i stopped being such an **** when i realised i cant back it up like i once did ?

i dont train to deal with bear attacks, even drop bears are off my radar, because the chances of it happening are very small, and it would be complexly pointless

It is not the point. If I go to a school that says it can make me fight bears. Then I want to be able to fight bears.

Not a school that says I will probably not be attacked by one.

I mean seriously I don't spend time and money to probably not get in a fight. I could do that for free.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

It is not the point. If I go to a school that says it can make me fight bears. Then I want to be able to fight bears.

Not a school that says I will probably not be attacked by one.

I mean seriously I don't spend time and money to probably not get in a fight. I could do that for free.

This is why it bothers me a lot when someone said, "If you want to fight, buy yourself a gun."

What if in some foreign country that firearm is not allowed?

 

[Tez3]

If you (general YOU) doesn't treat exercise as the most important part of your life, that can be the major problem. The exercise habit require to be developed during the young age. If you miss just one day work out, you will feel guilty, you are on the correct path.

I believe if you work out properly daily, your chance to have

- knee problem,
- back problem, and
- arthritis in her hands.

will be reduced.

You assume she had the choice to exercise or not?

You should also know that exercise induced problems in knees, backs etc are common? and that arthritis can be caused in older age by breaks and prolonged use? do you know there are different sorts of arthritis? I'd suggest that as your mother in law is most likely much older than you she has osteoarthritis, known as 'wear and tear' arthritis for obvious reasons.