Christian Martial Arts Schools

[IcemanSK]

Iceman, I like what you said and it is very cool to see other Christians on here.

Thanks. When I was in college, I trained w/ a group of guys who were all Christians. We'd stretch & kick each other while talking about God & vice versa. It was a natural part of our friendship & training. But it wasn't a pre-requiste to train w/ us.

I'm by no means ripping on people who run Christian MA schools. I'm just sharing my point of view.

 

[Jade Tigress]

I am a Christian & have been a practicing martial artist for more than 23 years. I'm a seminary graduate & have worked in many churches in various positions (including pastor). I am also in the process of starting my own TKD school. I have trained w/ a lot of martial artists who were Christians, but who weren't "Christian MA-ists".

Because I am a Christian, I use the ethics of my faith in Christ in my teaching. I encourage my students to live by the "Golden Rule" (Do unto others as you would have them do to you) but I would share no overtly Christian message as part of class. I encorage students to be active in their churches (if that's a part of their lives). I tell them that "Being a good fighter is ONE thing, being a good person is everything." To me, this is as essential a part of the martial arts as a good side kick.

The reason I don't have an overtly Christian message in my class is that I don't think people hear the message strongly when its said so loudly. Christian is a great noun, but a poor adjective. When its used to to describe car repair, MA, music or my dog, it really fails in its intent. And sadly, a lot of folks have had really bad experiences with folks who have put the word Christian in front of their product or service. I'd rather have a parent of my students come to me & ask, "Why do you care so much about my kid?" Then I can share my faith as the reason I teach the way I do. Much like great coaches in other sports (basketball's John Wooden comes to mind) saw their faith as a way to develop character of their players. He was a great coach who was a Christian, not a "Christian basketball coach."

Well said, and a much more effective way to share your faith than praying before or after class, or any of the other things discussed, I believe.

 

[IcemanSK]

Well said, and a much more effective way to share your faith than praying before or after class, or any of the other things discussed, I believe.

I wonder if a Christian MA school would really draw non-Christians to them in the 1st place. If prayer is a part of the class, why would someone who doesn't by into it choose THAT school? The draw, I think, would be for believers, not unbelievers.

Do others have a different experience? Perhaps you joined a Christian MA school because it was a Christian school...although you weren't a practicing believer.

 

[Jade Tigress]

I wonder if a Christian MA school would really draw non-Christians to them in the 1st place. If prayer is a part of the class, why would someone who doesn't by into it choose THAT school? The draw, I think, would be for believers, not unbelievers.

No, I don't believe so. I believe Christian MA schools attract Christians who feel certain traditions of non-Christian MA schools compromise their faith. Someone who is not interested in learning about Christianity will not choose a Christian MA school, someone who is interested in Christianity will choose a church. JMO.

 

[IcemanSK]

No, I don't believe so. I believe Christian MA schools attract Christians who feel certain traditions of non-Christian MA schools compromise their faith. Someone who is not interested in learning about Christianity will not choose a Christian MA school, someone who is interested in Christianity will choose a church. JMO.

That's what I've always wondered. Its for Christians, by Christians. It certainly isn't meant for outreach to non-believers. At least I've not seen it set up that way. I personally think what draws folks to Christ is Christians acting like Christians. If the intend for folks who runs Christian MA is to draw non-Christians, a big emphasis on prayer &/or bible study during class probably wouldn't be a big draw. IMO

 

[Jade Tigress]

I personally think what draws folks to Christ is Christians acting like Christians. If the intend for folks who runs Christian MA is to draw non-Christians, a big emphasis on prayer &/or bible study during class probably wouldn't be a big draw. IMO

EXACTLY. :asian:

 

[michaeledward]

I would never attend your dojo.

If I choose to exercise commerce with you based on martial arts, I do not want to be subjected to your belief structure.

Similarly, I don't go to my preacher to learn self-defense.

 

[monkey]

Thogh i did not do or was forced to do Budah.The shaolin start as students-then monks-then abbots-then priest -eventualy master or equal to bishop or of that rank.Now this is the point & it was made clear by Jhoon Ree on A.& E. history (Martial arts can be good or bad-will out philosophy & just punch n kicking that can be very evil.So good for you on a calm path.Peace & happy kicking.

 

[Kacey]

Now this is the point & it was made clear by Jhoon Ree on A.& E. history (Martial arts can be good or bad-will out philosophy & just punch n kicking that can be very evil.

This is true, and as an instructor, I consider it my duty to include a moral component - but I limit myself to the morality of using the skills I teach in class. I do not include a belief system beyond that. As MichaelEdward said

If I choose to exercise commerce with you based on martial arts, I do not want to be subjected to your belief structure.

Similarly, I don't go to my preacher to learn self-defense.

If religiously-oriented martial arts works for you - great! However, I would not want to limit my student population to those who are, or are willing to be, members of my religious community. Understanding comes from encompassing all beliefs, not from limiting oneself to a single set. On the other hand, I do understand that there are people who would only participate in a martial art in a religious setting, so as to avoid any potential conflicts between the belief system of the art and the belief system of the religion - and for those people, a martial art taught in a religious setting is better than nothing... but it's not the choice for me.

 

[Carol]

Hey SW
Yes, I too wish you success with your dojo. And I wonder if you are still here, can I ask the obvious question of how you reconcile warriorship in the very real and immediate sense to the driving core of Christianity. Are the two not at odds? Thank you

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

I agree with Jenna. The two do seem to be quite at odds.

Jesus talked about turning the other cheek and once kicked the money changers out of a temple, if I understand correctly as I am not of the faith. This flies against teaching someone self-defense and collecting money to do it all in the name of Jesus as the Lord God Almighty.

How does that all work?

 

[Sacred Warrior]

Warriorship has everything to do with Christianity. The two are not at odds. While I don't wish to get into a protracted debate on the issue I would encourage those who disagree (And those who took cheap shots about money...Just to settle that issue right now; we don't admit people based on the ability to pay dues, but on sincerity.If you really want to train and can't afford it, you're ALWAYS welcome.) to look up the many good Christian martial arts sites on the web and read the articles related to the topic.

Let me also point out:

1. We are not a commercial dojo, but a private dojo. Thus we don't need to worry about dues like most schools.

2. We cater specifically to the Christian community or those interested in Biblical spirituality.

In this we are no different than schools that promote meditation, Zen, Mikkyo, Tendai, Taoism, etc. either in principle or in fact.

And if one is not inclined toward our spirituality there are many schools out there to choose from. Christians however don't have that same opportunity, unless of course they are content with martial sports. For those who want to synthesize their discipleship with their martial training we're the answer.

To those who were kind enough to offer your best wishes, thank you very much!

Living with Purpose, on Purpose,
Jake

 

[michaeledward]

Warriorship has everything to do with Christianity. The two are not at odds. While I don't wish to get into a protracted debate on the issue I would encourage those who disagree (And those who took cheap shots about money...Just to settle that issue right now; we don't admit people based on the ability to pay dues, but on sincerity.If you really want to train and can't afford it, you're ALWAYS welcome.) to look up the many good Christian martial arts sites on the web and read the articles related to the topic.

Let me also point out:

1. We are not a commercial dojo, but a private dojo. Thus we don't need to worry about dues like most schools.

2. We cater specifically to the Christian community or those interested in Biblical spirituality.

In this we are no different than schools that promote meditation, Zen, Mikkyo, Tendai, Taoism, etc. either in principle or in fact.

And if one is not inclined toward our spirituality there are many schools out there to choose from. Christians however don't have that same opportunity, unless of course they are content with martial sports. For those who want to synthesize their discipleship with their martial training we're the answer.

To those who were kind enough to offer your best wishes, thank you very much!

Living with Purpose, on Purpose,
Jake

Oh, Please. The Besieged Christians. As if they are an oppressed minority in a country that is more than 85% Christian. Yet spoken with arrogance of only Christians can live on purpose, or with purpose.

I value what I pay for. If you offer a service for which no recompense is required, I will value it as if no recompense is required. Regardless of whether you think it is a commercial transaction or not, you are offering a good or service.

And, your slight does nothing to support your premise that Christianity has everything to do with warriorship.

 

[Ceicei]

I agree with Jenna. The two do seem to be quite at odds.

Jesus talked about turning the other cheek and once kicked the money changers out of a temple, if I understand correctly as I am not of the faith. This flies against teaching someone self-defense and collecting money to do it all in the name of Jesus as the Lord God Almighty.

How does that all work?

Well, I am reminded of some verses in the Bible where Jesus told his disciples to sell their clothing and purchase swords. (Luke 22:36). Why else would he advise that, if not for self defense?

Even He knew that there are people out there who have intent to harm.

There are several verses that advocate defense in the scriptures (both Old and New Testaments), so I *do not believe* that Jesus Christ would be a pacifist. He understood human nature too well. There is a time for things to happen, and this also includes defense.

- Ceicei

 

[Sapper6]

Oh, Please. The Besieged Christians. As if they are an oppressed minority in a country that is more than 85% Christian. Yet spoken with arrogance of only Christians can live on purpose, or with purpose.

I value what I pay for. If you offer a service for which no recompense is required, I will value it as if no recompense is required. Regardless of whether you think it is a commercial transaction or not, you are offering a good or service.

And, your slight does nothing to support your premise that Christianity has everything to do with warriorship.

why don't you chill out michael? why is it you feel the need to bash the christian belief? it seems you often take every opportunity you have to badger the faith. you might have had a bad experience with it once. if so, i'm sorry to hear that. the animosity you have of the christian belief is very clear. it's also unnecessary.

this guy has explicitly stated what and who his school is for. so it's not for you. who cares. there are many others out there that will grow just fine in that environment. it doesn't make them any less of a martial artist for doing so; and it doesn't make sacred warrior any less of a human being or martial arts teacher for instucting in that particular environment.

i found your post very condescending, offensive, and counter-productive to martialtalk's mission of maintaining a friendly environment. i ask that you keep your anti-christian rhetoric and rock throwing in the study where it belongs. you are polluting the thread.

:asian:

 

[michaeledward]

i found your post very condescending, offensive, and counter-productive to martialtalk's mission of maintaining a friendly environment.

Strange, I found his statement similiarly condescending, offensive, and counter-productive to martialtalks mission.

And those who took cheap shots about money...Just to settle that issue right now; we don't admit people based on the ability to pay dues, but on sincerity.

i ask that you keep your anti-christian rhetoric and rock throwing in the study where it belongs. you are polluting the thread.

That you project onto me 'anti-christian rhetoric', I find similiarly offensive. I am not anti-Christian. I am not anti-any belief structure. I prefer clarity of thought and action.

I go to the doctor for health. I go to the mechanic to get my car serviced. I go to the market to buy food.

That some would expect to go to the Karate Studio for religious belief and practice is contradictory to the purpose of a Karate Studio, in my opinion.

 

[Carol]

Well, I am reminded of some verses in the Bible where Jesus told his disciples to sell their clothing and purchase swords. (Luke 22:36). Why else would he advise that, if not for self defense?

Even He knew that there are people out there who have intent to harm.

There are several verses that advocate defense in the scriptures (both Old and New Testaments), so I *do not believe* that Jesus Christ would be a pacifist. He understood human nature too well. There is a time for things to happen, and this also includes defense.

- Ceicei

OK, rhat makes sense. I'm not a Christian myself so I tend to ask rather stupid questions. I appreciate your input a lot! :asian:

 

[bluemtn]

I follow the rule of there is no stupid questions (well, there are exceptions, but you know what I mean...). I think that we weren't made to be welcome mats for whomever comes along. I think also there are quite a few martial arts tennets that coincide with religion (even Christianity) when you think about it.

 

[Lisa]

Mod. Note.
Please, keep the conversation polite and respectful.

Lisa Deneka
MT Senior Moderator

 

[Kacey]

1. We are not a commercial dojo, but a private dojo. Thus we don't need to worry about dues like most schools.

Let me just clarify that when I said limiting your student base, I was referring to the diversity of the students - not the dues they generate. Having taught at a YMCA for years at a loss, because I enjoy teaching, I'm happy any session I break even. My comment was not directed at money-making.

2. We cater specifically to the Christian community or those interested in Biblical spirituality.

As I said, if that's what works for you, great - but it is not my choice for myself or my students. I enjoy working with people from a wide range of backgrounds, and could not do that in a setting limited to a particular religion or religious belief system.

In this we are no different than schools that promote meditation, Zen, Mikkyo, Tendai, Taoism, etc. either in principle or in fact.

Here, I beg to differ. Meditation, while used by many religions, is not a religion in itself, nor is it specific to any religion, although certain meditation techniques are taught in religious institutions for religious purposes; that notwithstanding, meditation is a mental technique used by a variety of people for a variety of purposes. Certainly, meditation is used by those religions as a central precept, and is taught - but the difference is, I think, that meditation in my school is non-religious, and, while the direction is to "close your eyes, clear you mind, and get ready to learn", if I had any students whose personal religious and/or moral beliefs had a problem with that, I would modify as necessary to accommodate them - not tell them to find another school.

As I said, this is your choice, and I wish you luck with it - but you will continue to find people who have different opinions, and they are as welcome to express their opinions as you are to express your own. You will garner more support and acceptance if you accept that, than if you strike out at people whose opinions are different from your own.

Shalom.

 

[Ceicei]

OK, rhat makes sense. I'm not a Christian myself so I tend to ask rather stupid questions. I appreciate your input a lot! :asian:

For those who genuinely seek answers, there are no stupid questions, whatever the topic. I appreciate you asking.

- Ceicei