Can we promote our GrandMaster ?

[hoshin1600]

Lots of people think that after a certain point the rank is meaningless. But this viewpoint is only accounting for the correlation between rank and competence. From my perspective the meaning and value of receiving a high rank or title is found in the connection and relationships we have with those that are awarding us with the rank. If you received a black belt from an old master say Miyagi or Ueshiba or the like, to the recipient that belt has meaning, has weight to it. You will always look back to that moment.
Receiving a title from students you have been with for a lifetime can have that same weight.
But it should be done in the spirt of love and admiration not self interest. To promote your teacher only so you yourself can be promoted lacks character.

 

[skribs]

But it should be done in the spirt of love and admiration not self interest. To promote your teacher only so you yourself can be promoted lacks character.

I think it depends, and its one of those things that text on a forum doesn't really do justice.

In the example I've used, I'm a 3rd degree black belt. Theoretically, if I were to open my own school without any promotion (whether it be to join a new organization, have a 3rd party promotion, self-promotion, etc.), then the ceiling for my students would be 2nd degree. The ceiling for theirs would be 1st. And then there are no more black belts left to give.

In this case, it's a lot further up the chain. But if you cannot be promoted, then your students have a ceiling that will only get lower with each generation.

People say skill matters more than the belt. What happens when the highest ranking person in the school is a green belt?

 

[Hot Lunch]

To promote your teacher only so you yourself can be promoted lacks character.

No one is going through all that trouble to increase their rank ceiling, when it's far easier to simply jump ship over to another organization where there are already people of higher dan ranks.

 

[HighKick]

I think it depends, and its one of those things that text on a forum doesn't really do justice.

In the example I've used, I'm a 3rd degree black belt. Theoretically, if I were to open my own school without any promotion (whether it be to join a new organization, have a 3rd party promotion, self-promotion, etc.), then the ceiling for my students would be 2nd degree. The ceiling for theirs would be 1st. And then there are no more black belts left to give.

In this case, it's a lot further up the chain. But if you cannot be promoted, then your students have a ceiling that will only get lower with each generation.

People say skill matters more than the belt. What happens when the highest ranking person in the school is a green belt?

But your analogy would mean you stopped training and promoting. This is bad juju for any instructor. One of the Big values of being part of a larger organization where the promotion process could continue and everyone would continue to promote. Even the ones who make it to the Dan levels.

 

[Buka]

Every student I’ve ever taught learned one thing before they were allowed to sign up for classes. “If you’re concerned with rank you are in the wrong dojo.”

Not one of them cared. They still tell me they don’t care. If they’re lying, they’ve been real good at it for a real long time.

 

[Hot Lunch]

Every student I’ve ever taught learned one thing before they were allowed to sign up for classes. “If you’re concerned with rank you are in the wrong dojo.”

Not one of them cared. They still tell me they don’t care. If they’re lying, they’ve been real good at it for a real long time.

Being told that is par for the course. They know that they would have been told the same thing at next dojo down the street.

It's human nature - you put a hierarchal ladder in front of someone, and there's going to be a place within that ladder that they want to be. And it's not always the top.

I've seen several people on social media claim that they don't care about rank, while also saying that they intend to stay a white belt for as long as they're allowed to. That's self-contradictory as hell. And it's also exhibitionist self-denial.

 

[Buka]

Being told that is par for the course. They know that they would have been told the same thing at next dojo down the street.

It's human nature - you put a hierarchal ladder in front of someone, and there's going to be a place within that ladder that they want to be. And it's not always the top.

I've seen several people on social media claim that they don't care about rank, while also saying that they intend to stay a white belt for as long as they're allowed to. That's self-contradictory as hell. And it's also exhibitionist self-denial.

 

[skribs]

Every student I’ve ever taught learned one thing before they were allowed to sign up for classes. “If you’re concerned with rank you are in the wrong dojo.”

Not one of them cared. They still tell me they don’t care. If they’re lying, they’ve been real good at it for a real long time.

I care about rank. It's not the end-all be-all of martial arts. But I do think most people have rank for a reason, it's a good indicator of who can help me and who I should help. And it's nice to feel acknowledged for it.

There's a black belt at my gym who's been saying it doesn't really matter and this and that. But you should've seen the smile on his face when he got the first stripe on his black belt from my Professor and his Professor.

 

[jks9199]

Regarding the original question... Within your organization, you can do what you choose. The organization I belong to has 9 levels of black belt; a few years back, the executive committee promoted our founding chief instructor who introduced our art to the US to 10th. It will be his, and his alone, in recognition of the unique contributions he has made.

Regarding rank in general... there's a point where higher numbers don't really mean higher knowledge or skill. They recognize what the person has done for the association or system, how many successive generations of black belts they've taught, or other reasons for promotion. Some live up to the expectations -- some wear the labels as laurels. In the end, rank only carries as much meaning as you give it and as the associations behind it can support. Tony gave a great explanation of that above.

 

[drop bear]

I care about rank. It's not the end-all be-all of martial arts. But I do think most people have rank for a reason, it's a good indicator of who can help me and who I should help. And it's nice to feel acknowledged for it.

There's a black belt at my gym who's been saying it doesn't really matter and this and that. But you should've seen the smile on his face when he got the first stripe on his black belt from my Professor and his Professor.

You have to pretend to not care so that belts think you are cool and are more interested in you.

 

[Hot Lunch]

I care about rank. It's not the end-all be-all of martial arts. But I do think most people have rank for a reason, it's a good indicator of who can help me and who I should help. And it's nice to feel acknowledged for it.

There's a black belt at my gym who's been saying it doesn't really matter and this and that. But you should've seen the smile on his face when he got the first stripe on his black belt from my Professor and his Professor.

It's kind of like when you get asked "why do you want to work here" during a job interview. The bills aren't going to pay themselves. You know that, and so does the interviewer. But you'd better not say that.

 

[HighKick]

I care about rank. It's not the end-all be-all of martial arts. But I do think most people have rank for a reason, it's a good indicator of who can help me and who I should help. And it's nice to feel acknowledged for it.

There's a black belt at my gym who's been saying it doesn't really matter and this and that. But you should've seen the smile on his face when he got the first stripe on his black belt from my Professor and his Professor.

I agree.
If you change the word 'rank' with the word 'goal', the sentence takes on a different meaning for some, but the end result is the same in the martial arts and most other organized teaching/learning sports.

Of course who would want to learn Karate or Calculus from someone who has only been at it for a couple of years. Are there people capable of teaching at that time frame? Sure, but they are very much the exception not the rule. And all will tell you they had a great deal more to learn at that point in their training.