Can we over come the Olympics

[YoungMan]

A couple of things I would suggest:

1. Let ALL fighters, the Lopezes included, start from the ground up and earn the right to represent us. You might stop seeing this sense of entitlement ("Hey I'm a Lopez I deserve to be here!") that seems to characterize some fighters.

2. Remember when I stated that the USAT is a JiDoKwan organization? I stand by that. Replace the top officials with non-JDK people and let fighters from other organizations (Chung Do Kwan etc.) have an honest chance. Also, make having a legitimate black belt from the Kukkiwon a prerequisite to being an official.

 

[bluekey88]

Maybe I'm misinformed...but the seeding system is essentially that...fighting ot the top. But instead of doing itin one competition, they look at performance at a variety of qualifying events.

Now, what happened with the olypic team this year was outside of hat (I think)...the corruption none of us like. But I think the seeding system, if used as intended should work. It seems to work in other sports.

Again, don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

Peace,
Erik

 

[Kwanjang]

I would like to thank TKD...... TKD has given us a lot of first:

1.) First Grand Master's
2.) Not to be out done, the first Supreme Grand Masters
3.) Super Supreme Grand Masters....with a title like that they must know something
4.) Commercial Dojang Chain of Schools
5.) Youngest Black Belts in history
6.) Highest Child Black Belts in history (14 year old 5th Dans)
7.) Largest martial arts organization in the World (with the most control over its members). Largest organization in America!
8.) Airplane degrees (some were 3rd dan in Korea, flew to the US and were 7th Dans when they got of the plane) These guys are the predessessors of most students of TKD
9.) One of the most popular martial arts with the shortest time to acheive Black Belt.
10.) First punch/kick martial arts included in the Olympics (how did that happen? WTF Chairman was also Vice Chairman of International Olympic Committee. Hmm! I wonder if that influenced the IOC decision to include TKD.
11.) Olympic Scandal on Judging.
12.) Olympic feasco when competitor kicks judge in face.....which didn't injur the judge.....If TKD kicks are so "lethal" why is that judge still alive? he didn't block. The offender had just lost the "Gold Medal" bout....shouldn't his kick have been lethal?


This will NOT change until the focus is taken off the money and put on the sport!

Every TKD dojang says the same thing.... "We are the best!"
When all is said and done.... it was about the money.....in fact it has always been about the money..... that is why they call it "Take - One's - Do$"

In the words of the immortal Tony Montana; "In this country, you gotta make the money first, then when you get the money, you get the power, when you get the power, then you get the woman."

Ya know, that’s a little harsh, I would like to remind you; 1.) Other MA styles Have titles! In Karate you have Sensei, Shihan, Shidoshi. 2.) Karate came to the U.S before TKD. As a matter of fact, Tracy's Karate was among the first commercial “chain” Karate Dojo's in the country. 3.) As far "The largest organizations in the world" TKD happens to be very popular. 4.) This is why TKD has a large number of youth black belts. 5.) I can't speak for other TKD school, at my school it takes 3-4 years to earn your Black Belt. (Years ago most MA students only had the opportunity to train two nights per week, modern schools have classes four to five days a week) 6.) I know for a fact GM Uhm, Woon Kyu was VERY instrumental on helping get TKD into the Olympics. 7.) As far as every TKD school saying they are the best- Don't you have pride in your school and system?
8.) About the money? Doesn't your Dojo charge for classes? 9.) As a 28 year student of TKD I am aware of the "magical Planes Departing from Korea with 3rd dans, only to arrive in America 7th dans. Do you not think that happens with Karate styles? If not you are naïve. 10.) TKD kicks lethal? ABSOLUTLEY! I know of one TKD black belt (Roger Stamp) who was sparring his opponent and side kicked him so hard it dislodged his spleen-They rushed him to the hospital. I was saddened when the Cuban kicked the ref. I contend, if he wanted to knock out the ref. he could have! 11.) I am appalled at the corruption-It is not just isolated to TKD! I hear they are considering Karate to be voted in the Olympics. In my opinion, I can almost guarantee all the problems associated with the sport of TKD will happen to Karate, it will become about the money as well. Bastardization (of some sort) has happened in all MA including Karate. You are entitled to your opinion! I do have a problem with your "Take - One's - Do$" I find that highly inflammatory and would ask you, did Gichin Funokashi and his underlings get paid to teach and proliferate Karate-DO, Please, I respect your opinion-but in the future try not to be so truculent!

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Maybe I'm misinformed...but the seeding system is essentially that...fighting ot the top. But instead of doing itin one competition, they look at performance at a variety of qualifying events.

Now, what happened with the olypic team this year was outside of hat (I think)...the corruption none of us like. But I think the seeding system, if used as intended should work. It seems to work in other sports.

Again, don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

Peace,
Erik

Agreed. I want to see the top athletes at the olympics, and the way to see who the top athletes are is to look at multiple events, particularly since athletes have good and bad days.

Daniel

 

[BrandonLucas]

Maybe I'm misinformed...but the seeding system is essentially that...fighting ot the top. But instead of doing itin one competition, they look at performance at a variety of qualifying events.

Now, what happened with the olypic team this year was outside of hat (I think)...the corruption none of us like. But I think the seeding system, if used as intended should work. It seems to work in other sports.

Again, don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

Peace,
Erik

I agree with this as well...the corruption is the main problem that I can see that needs to be fixed...and I have no idea how to do that.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I agree with this as well...the corruption is the main problem that I can see that needs to be fixed...and I have no idea how to do that.

Unfortunately, once the olympics are involved, corruption is part of the landscape. Keep in mind that the olympics are, inspite of the claimed spirit of unity in the games, really a forum for promoting nationalism. National pride is on the line, so any and every effort is made by each nation to insure that their pride is maintained. The only way to remove corruption from Olympic taekwondo is to remove it from the olympics. Then it is a question of dealing with the organizations individually; since it wouldn't be olympic tkd anymore, no one org would have any added prestige over any other.

Daniel

 

[BrandonLucas]

Unfortunately, once the olympics are involved, corruption is part of the landscape. Keep in mind that the olympics are, inspite of the claimed spirit of unity in the games, really a forum for promoting nationalism. National pride is on the line, so any and every effort is made by each nation to insure that their pride is maintained. The only way to remove corruption from Olympic taekwondo is to remove it from the olympics. Then it is a question of dealing with the organizations individually; since it wouldn't be olympic tkd anymore, no one org would have any added prestige over any other.

Daniel

Agreed. I think it would go a long way toward ending the corruption in TKD, but I'm not so sure it would end it completely. I think that alot of the leadership roles need to change in order for things to truely improve.

We really need someone to unify TKD and to promote the martial art itself, and not the income that it can bring. If everything were unified to better the art, then I think alot of the rules placed on the Olympic style sparring would disappear, and there would be more emphasis placed on the art itself, instead of the competition side of it.

That's not to say that the competition side should be done away with, but I think that TKD should place things in priority: SD training should come first, and then the competition training should come in.

It would be nice to be able to go to any tournement in the world for TKD and compete under the same ruleset.

 

[BrandonLucas]

On a side note, it is truely sad that the Olympic games have become a way of promoting nationalism. The games were intended to pit competitors against one another, not country against country.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Agreed. I think it would go a long way toward ending the corruption in TKD, but I'm not so sure it would end it completely. I think that alot of the leadership roles need to change in order for things to truely improve.

.
Absolutely right, but removal from the olympics would keep one org from having a lock on a recognized world championship with guaranteed sponsorship and viewers which may attract taekwondoin who otherwise may train in a more SD oriented style.

We really need someone to unify TKD and to promote the martial art itself, and not the income that it can bring. If everything were unified to better the art, then I think alot of the rules placed on the Olympic style sparring would disappear, and there would be more emphasis placed on the art itself, instead of the competition side of it.

.Yes and no. I do believe that the WTF style sparring has a benefit to SD training with regard to kick developement. But there's no reason to be limited to just one sparring style. One of the reasons that I enjoy the WTF sparring is specifically because it benefits my kicks.

Unifying everything is not automatically the best either; lots of people would rather see the opposite; nine kwans, each distinct. Unifying by its very nature tends to force aspects of different styles out, thus nobody winds up training in them and the aspects are lost.

That's not to say that the competition side should be done away with, but I think that TKD should place things in priority: SD training should come first, and then the competition training should come in.

.
I agree, though in terms of chronology, competition is best done when the practitioner is young. There is a fuse on how long one can effectively compete, so I think that those with the competition bug should do so to their hearts content and then focus their training on SD and on teaching younger practitioners.

It would be nice to be able to go to any tournement in the world for TKD and compete under the same ruleset.

Now that would be pretty cool

Daniel

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

On a side note, it is truely sad that the Olympic games have become a way of promoting nationalism. The games were intended to pit competitors against one another, not country against country.

Once you have competitors representing nations, nationalism is there, and that has been true since day one of the olympics. The only way to take nationalism out is to have the teams done by drawing names from a hat and simply have teams A, B, C, etc., each with a multinational roster, but that will never happen.

Daniel

 

[slingblade01]

how do you know they are the top guys until they fight their way to the top?

Where have you been? Every major country AND every major sport uses qualification tournaments and/or point systems to properly seed their athletes. They are looking for the BEST to represent their country/sport, not the luckiest.

I certainly wouldn't consider our current olympians the "top guys". If they really are the "top guys" they could most certainly fight in the first round and do well.

WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING?
All 4 of our olympians won their first fight.
3 of them medaled.
TKD in the Olympics was not seeded to allow the smaller countries a greater chance at medaling.
Men's heavy weight division was a huge problem. All the top fighters except the Korean were placed on the one side of the bracket, leaving CHA Dong-Min a walk in the park.

What happens to all these other guys, who your trying to say aren't "top guys" who still have to fight in the first round? Your basically coming right out and saying that politics choose the team, and not skill. I don't care how well someone has done on some tourney circuit throughout the year, anyone that has "Trained" hard enough and would like to make the attempt to be on the team should have just as much of a chance to do so.

They obviously haven't EARNED that right, now have they?
Seeding doesn't necessarily mean you're exempt from the first round.

Who chooses who the "top guys" are?

Stop educating yourself with ridiculous movies and start reading the qualification and seeding process for yourself.

If they are getting injured, then they probably need.. say.. hmm... put their hands up? Since, how else are they going to get hurt?

Are you retarded? Who mentioned injuries or hands up.
I thought this thread was going well.

I guess you have to be from <School of Olympic TKD champions> to be considered a "top guy" in your eyes. Everyone is equal, until proven otherwise.

Go to USAT's website and download the packet. Read it thoroughly! Then you can post an apology for this idiotic statement.
I'm not going to continue to educate someone who is too lazy to educate themselves, too narrow minded to see out side their world, or too disrspectful to ask intelligent questions.

 

[slingblade01]

Let me try.



head shots can and do get blocked...it's just preferable to evade and counter. Even a blocked shot can rock you...especially when dealing with full contact kicks. goign for head shots is preferable because they are worht 2 points and have a greater chance of ending a bout quickly (either by knock out or point gap). When you have to fight 3 or 4 times to get to a medal match...it's best to conserve ones energy.



Not exactly. While head shots are preferable...they have to be set up. The most common attack is to the body. most of the kick you see will be some variation of roundhouse or side kick to the torso. A hands up guard lets those kicks slip in underneath the elbows easily. Better to drop the gaurd to protect against those kicks. It's all very pragmatic.



Not exactly. When you bounce, you can kick faster. Speed is the name of the game. You can hit like a Mac truck, but it means absoulutely nothing if those shots never make it to their target.

When you're flat footed, you have to generate kinetic energy and move your enitre body (shift your weight) in some way to throw any kick. If you;re bouncing, that motion is already going...that will save time. It also helps to disguise or hide your intent. If you're flat footed, any movement ios probably an attack...if you're bouncing...who knows? Also if helps with movement, but also disguises your footwork a bit. All of this helps to keep your opponenet guessing...slowing them down.

hell, i don't see what the problem is with bouncing...boxers do it, MMA fighters who like to strike do it...why not TKD fighters?



The rest is fairly accurate and certainly issues that the WTF, Kukkiwon and USAT need to look at.

Peace,
Erik

You get an A-.
Thanks for picking up the slack!

Motion is changing/has changed to forward/backward (very sutle) instead of up/down.
Again, a pure TKD (not boxing) technique.

 

[slingblade01]

A couple of things I would suggest:

1. Let ALL fighters, the Lopezes included, start from the ground up and earn the right to represent us. You might stop seeing this sense of entitlement ("Hey I'm a Lopez I deserve to be here!") that seems to characterize some fighters.

uh, they did start from the ground.
How do you think they team. Please explain in detail.

2. Remember when I stated that the USAT is a JiDoKwan organization? I stand by that. Replace the top officials with non-JDK people and let fighters from other organizations (Chung Do Kwan etc.) have an honest chance.

Why don't you show a little responsibility, a support your claim with some facts. Who are all of these JiDoKwan people?

Also, make having a legitimate black belt from the Kukkiwon a prerequisite to being an official.

And you think the KKW is pure?
Besides, there are plenty of folks willing to sell you KKWs for the right price.

 

[Twin Fist]

Sling?

the way you post, and the comments you make are not helping you.

just a heads up.

 

[slingblade01]

The only way to remove corruption from Olympic taekwondo is to remove it from the olympics. Then it is a question of dealing with the organizations individually; since it wouldn't be olympic tkd anymore, no one org would have any added prestige over any other.

Daniel

Actually, the IOC keeps poking the WTF and telling them to clean up their act. This will never happen if TKD is pulled from the olympics. The WTF is so Korean dominated that the NGBs are powerless. But to play in the olympics, the WTF must answer to the IOC. If problems aren't resolved by 2012, it is my opinion that TKD will be out. If that happens, nationalism will be redefine in TKD; and not for the better.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Woah! Lets ramp it down a bit.

Sling, you seem pretty knowleadgeable and I do agree with a lot of your points. But the response to Sylo could have used a bit more tact.

Daniel

 

[slingblade01]

Once you have competitors representing nations, nationalism is there, and that has been true since day one of the olympics. The only way to take nationalism out is to have the teams done by drawing names from a hat and simply have teams A, B, C, etc., each with a multinational roster, but that will never happen.

Daniel

Who would pay for it? (rhetorical)

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Actually, the IOC keeps poking the WTF and telling them to clean up their act. This will never happen if TKD is pulled from the olympics. The WTF is so Korean dominated that the NGBs are powerless. But to play in the olympics, the WTF must answer to the IOC. If problems aren't resolved by 2012, it is my opinion that TKD will be out. If that happens, nationalism will be redefine in TKD; and not for the better.

You know, I hadn't actually thought of it from that perspective. I know that the WTF has had plenty of corruption issues independently of the olympics. I'm pretty sure that TKD is slated for 2012, but after that, who knows? I've heard a lot on the subject on this and other boards, but I have no solid info one way or the other.

Daniel

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Who would pay for it? (rhetorical)

Indeed.

Daniel

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

And you think the KKW is pure?
Besides, there are plenty of folks willing to sell you KKWs for the right price.

Very true. Sadly.

Daniel