Can we over come the Olympics

[rmclain]

Check out the backgrounds of every high ranking official of the USAT. I 99% guarantee that they will be Ji Do Kwan. Even if you don't list your style, if they know your Instructor is not Ji Do Kwan, you will not get far. You might win the first round, but that's all.
That's one of the reasons why we never bothered with it.

I hope that someone like Mr. Stoker will pop in to confirm if the ranking officials in USAT are from JDK.

If true, then what I find laughable is that JDK is only a name nowadays or an honorary organization of Grandmasters/Masters that "may have" trained in (what was) JDK curriculum a long time ago. But, none of them follow that line anymore - especially after Lee Jong-woo (One senior JDK Grandmaster) became heavily involved with the WTF in the early 1970's. Yep, he was there in the old days, but doesn't preserve that part anymore.

Ask even the most senior Grandmaster claiming JDK lineage if they can demonstrate Yoon Ui-byoung (Yoon Kwe-byoung)'s staff forms (he was the founder of Ji Do Kwan) and most have no idea the forms even existed. He even created his own bong form. Yoon Ui-byoung (Yoon Kwe-byoung) even published a book on these forms while still a karate student in Japan - I've personally looked at and held this book. He dedicated the book to his teachers Mabuni Genwa and Toyama Kanken.

So, if the USAT officials are hiding behind the name of JDK for preference of one competitor over another, I see them as no better than schoolyard children organizing a soccer game and announcing "second graders only, no 1st graders!" - or something to that effect. Must be part of the "indominable spirit" that they claim to teach students.

R. McLain

 

[mango.man]

Check out the backgrounds of every high ranking official of the USAT. I 99% guarantee that they will be Ji Do Kwan. Even if you don't list your style, if they know your Instructor is not Ji Do Kwan, you will not get far. You might win the first round, but that's all.
That's one of the reasons why we never bothered with it.

If you are refering to the team members, I certainly do not have the time or patience to try toresearch the lineage of the 20 Jr team members and 16 Sr team members.

I can tell you the my daughter's coach (a 7 time USAT Sr team member) comes from a lineage of Moo Duk Kwan. But that is about as deep as I care to dig into your question.

If you are talking about those that supposedly "run" the organization, most of them have no TKD experience whatsoever, not even white belt, although Dave Askinas is an "honorary black belt". That is probably part of our problem over all.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

If you are talking about those that supposedly "run" the organization, most of them have no TKD experience whatsoever, not even white belt, although Dave Askinas is an "honorary black belt". That is probably part of our problem over all.

Probably?? I'd call that a honkin' huge neon red flag! While each and every board member need not be a grandmaster, there should be at least some with taekwondo experience. It isn't like they can't take lessons and get a blackbelt in two years, for cryin' out loud. And honorary black belts? I'm not a fan of honorary degrees or belts anyway, not even posthumous ones, for legitamate martial artists. But giving one to a non-practitioner is just ridiculous. I read bio, by the way; it mentions a lot of experience as the head of athletic groups and soccor, but nothing about martial arts. http://www.usoc.us/73_42859.htm

Non MA personel should not be granted honorary belts for any reason whatsoever. If the guy is a capable administrator with a good understanding of the sport side of taekdwondo, thats fine. A CEO doesn't need to be a master martial artist; so long his understaning of the dynamics of TKD are strong and that he keeps in touch with with the practitioners in USAT, he can be a fine CEO. Radio Shack brought in Len Roberts as their president years ago when I worked for them. He did a very good job and his background was in the restaurant biz. The skill set required to be a CEO has nothing in common with the skill set to earn a black belt: He doesn't need a belt that he didn't earn to legitamize his position.

That is the sort of thing that perpetuates the question of sport or art.

Daniel

 

[YoungMan]

My reference to the powers that be in USAT come from very senior Taekwondo masters who are familiar with the politics and know why things happen the way they do. I won't get into a "he said-he said" argument but that's what I was told and I have no reason to doubt them.
Being Jidokwan doesn't necessarily mean you know the old forms. We are Chung Do Kwan and do the Palgue forms.

 

[mango.man]

My reference to the powers that be in USAT come from very senior Taekwondo masters who are familiar with the politics and know why things happen the way they do. I won't get into a "he said-he said" argument but that's what I was told and I have no reason to doubt them.
Being Jidokwan doesn't necessarily mean you know the old forms. We are Chung Do Kwan and do the Palgue forms.

Well if you are not willing to give a name of people that make absurd sttatements, or post facts to backup absurd statements, then your statements, at least to me, will be considered absurd.

 

[Twin Fist]

let's ease up a little bit people

 

[zDom]

Just to establish some context, Mango.man, you are the parent of a student who competes in Olympic style TKD, correct?

Does that sum it up accurately? Or do you have any personal experience in martial arts? Does your child participate in any martial arts that are not related to Olympic style competition?

 

[mango.man]

Just to establish some context, Mango.man, you are the parent of a student who competes in Olympic style TKD, correct?

Does that sum it up accurately? Or do you have any personal experience in martial arts? Does your child participate in any martial arts that are not related to Olympic style competition?

You are correct zDom. I am merely a parent of an Olympic style TKD'ist. I do not currently, nor have I ever personally practiced TKD or any other Martial Art.

My daughter, almost 16 now, has been at it since age 5. She started off at what most would likely consider a "Traditional School". Forms (Taegeuk and Palgwe), some Hapkido thrown in, self defense, 1 step & 3 step drills etc.

After about 8 years she was bitten by the competition bug, but our original school that we were at for those 8 years was not able to provide her the level of training that she needed. She started taking private lessons on Sundays from her current coach and continued attending regular classes at the dojang. But it quickly became obvious to the instructors, masters and grand master that she was learning new and better stuff. She was for the most part then forbidden from using her new found skills under the regular dojang roof. We stuck it out there for as long as we could but it became apparent that if she was going to reach the next level that we would have to move on.

She went to another school, that was about 80 percent competition focused and 20 percent forms & self defense. I made it very clear that she was taking private lessons on the side as well and she would continue to do so. The instructor at this place though was just opening up and he wanted someone that had a solid skill set and the determination that my daughter had, so he agreed and said he was OK with her continuing with her private lessons as well.

About 14-15 months into that deal though it was becoming obvious that his goals were changing and rather than cultivate my daughter into a world class athlete as he promised, he decided he would be better off becoming what most here would call a "McDojang" operator. It was then that we separated from him and her private lesson coach decided it was time to become her (and a handful of other kids with the same dreams) regular full time coach. And class these days consists of 2 hours of nothing more than Olympic style sparring practice 5-6 times a week.

Maybe, once she gets over the competition bug, she will re-enter the traditional martial art aspect of things. TKD is all she has ever known as an personal activity. She's never asked to do soccer or softball or girl scouts etc. She did gymnastics for about 6 months, but only to help her improve her balance and flexibility for TKD.

She loves the art, but right now she is more in love with the sport.

 

[terryl965]

Yes alot of the High GM say they are JDK but remember the staff are just staff most of them never even been into any Martial Art let alone TKD. David is an honary BB wish in it self is a joke, but Master McLain is right those that clain JDK are a mere image of the past of it formal self.

I am an instructor and a I compete along with my school we have done great until time for teams and then we never gat a call one way for the better which as always told me I need to play the game but I refuse. This is one reason if you knock them out it leave no doubt mentality.

 

[igillman]

I am an instructor and a I compete along with my school we have done great until time for teams and then we never gat a call one way for the better which as always told me I need to play the game but I refuse. This is one reason if you knock them out it leave no doubt mentality.

and the WTF wonders why they have issues with the referees in major international competitions. With "play the game or nothing goes your way" corruption going all the way down to the local level what do they expect?

I admire you for not playing the game and sticking to your guns. If more instructors did that then maybe the corruption would stop. What amazes me is how many instructors and black belts actually accept the corruption as part of the game.

 

[terryl965]

and the WTF wonders why they have issues with the referees in major international competitions. With "play the game or nothing goes your way" corruption going all the way down to the local level what do they expect?

I admire you for not playing the game and sticking to your guns. If more instructors did that then maybe the corruption would stop. What amazes me is how many instructors and black belts actually accept the corruption as part of the game.

Thank you alot of instructor are not playing the game but instead is going out with the attitude to knock or make there opponet not wish to contimue. If we are a sport we should all be on a level playing field. Like that will ever happen.

 

[Brad Dunne]

I think Flying Crane offered the answer to the problem. If not mistaken, wasen't there information being offered awhile back, from Terry I believe, about the advent of a new organization becoming available? What ever happened or is happining in regards to this situation?

The subject of TKD vs sport vs organization venues has been ongoing for many years and is still ongoing. Unless those that wish for change are willing to band together and actually do something, even if it is only a handful to start, then we will still be debating this issue somewhere down the line again. You wish to disassociate from the sport version, then relable your school/dojang. Go back to the roots of where TKD came from and what it was called in the beginning. That's one alternative. Another is to just rename your style of TKD by using the kwan you come from and not advertising it as "Olympic Style" TKD. I'm sure other's can offer additional ideas.

If none of the above appeal, then there's always the switch to AAU TKD, perhaps the lesser of two evils?

OK, alot of rhetoric, but here is the real reason for all the problems......
EGO'S of ever instructor that's into the "game" or wants into the game. They want their students to win and when they don't, well you have what you have now. Sports will always have controversy and poor officiating and corruption, because the end all be all revolves around the allmighty dollar. You really want to fix things, even if it's just your little corner of the world? Then walk away from all this BS and go teach what the art/discipline was originally intended to do and that was teach combative survival / self defense. In the fallout of this, perhaps good character, self discipline, honesty and the other tenents subscribed to but rarely adheard to would resurface and take their rightful place in the training and replace the "I was robbed, they cheated, they lied, I didn't win, oh boo hoo"..................

 

[Mrluckyman]

I would like to thank TKD...... TKD has given us a lot of first:

1.) First Grand Master's
2.) Not to be out done, the first Supreme Grand Masters
3.) Super Supreme Grand Masters....with a title like that they must know something
4.) Commercial Dojang Chain of Schools
5.) Youngest Black Belts in history
6.) Highest Child Black Belts in history (14 year old 5th Dans)
7.) Largest martial arts organization in the World (with the most control over its members). Largest organization in America!
8.) Airplane degrees (some were 3rd dan in Korea, flew to the US and were 7th Dans when they got of the plane) These guys are the predessessors of most students of TKD
9.) One of the most popular martial arts with the shortest time to acheive Black Belt.
10.) First punch/kick martial arts included in the Olympics (how did that happen? WTF Chairman was also Vice Chairman of International Olympic Committee. Hmm! I wonder if that influenced the IOC decision to include TKD.
11.) Olympic Scandal on Judging.
12.) Olympic feasco when competitor kicks judge in face.....which didn't injur the judge.....If TKD kicks are so "lethal" why is that judge still alive? he didn't block. The offender had just lost the "Gold Medal" bout....shouldn't his kick have been lethal?


This will NOT change until the focus is taken off the money and put on the sport!

Every TKD dojang says the same thing.... "We are the best!"
When all is said and done.... it was about the money.....in fact it has always been about the money..... that is why they call it "Take - One's - Do$"

In the words of the immortal Tony Montana; "In this country, you gotta make the money first, then when you get the money, you get the power, when you get the power, then you get the woman."

 

[Laurentkd]

I would like to thank TKD...... TKD has given us a lot of first:

1.) First Grand Master's
2.) Not to be out done, the first Supreme Grand Masters
3.) Super Supreme Grand Masters....with a title like that they must know something
4.) Commercial Dojang Chain of Schools
5.) Youngest Black Belts in history
6.) Highest Child Black Belts in history (14 year old 5th Dans)
7.) Largest martial arts organization in the World (with the most control over its members). Largest organization in America!
8.) Airplane degrees (some were 3rd dan in Korea, flew to the US and were 7th Dans when they got of the plane) These guys are the predessessors of most students of TKD
9.) One of the most popular martial arts with the shortest time to acheive Black Belt.
10.) First punch/kick martial arts included in the Olympics (how did that happen? WTF Chairman was also Vice Chairman of International Olympic Committee. Hmm! I wonder if that influenced the IOC decision to include TKD.
11.) Olympic Scandal on Judging.
12.) Olympic feasco when competitor kicks judge in face.....which didn't injur the judge.....If TKD kicks are so "lethal" why is that judge still alive? he didn't block. The offender had just lost the "Gold Medal" bout....shouldn't his kick have been lethal?


This will NOT change until the focus is taken off the money and put on the sport!

Every TKD dojang says the same thing.... "We are the best!"
When all is said and done.... it was about the money.....in fact it has always been about the money..... that is why they call it "Take - One's - Do$"

In the words of the immortal Tony Montana; "In this country, you gotta make the money first, then when you get the money, you get the power, when you get the power, then you get the woman."

Way to add to the coversation!

 

[terryl965]

Way to add to the coversation!

Is that scarcasm Lauren

 

[mango.man]

I was just checking out the website for Jimmy Kim's TKD Center to see what sort of welcome home that they gave to Charlotte. Lot's of nice pictures and cool little tags to go along.

http://www.jktc.com/

 

[mango.man]

I would like to thank TKD...... TKD has given us a lot of first:

1.) First Grand Master's
2.) Not to be out done, the first Supreme Grand Masters
3.) Super Supreme Grand Masters....with a title like that they must know something
4.) Commercial Dojang Chain of Schools
5.) Youngest Black Belts in history
6.) Highest Child Black Belts in history (14 year old 5th Dans)
7.) Largest martial arts organization in the World (with the most control over its members). Largest organization in America!
8.) Airplane degrees (some were 3rd dan in Korea, flew to the US and were 7th Dans when they got of the plane) These guys are the predessessors of most students of TKD
9.) One of the most popular martial arts with the shortest time to acheive Black Belt.
10.) First punch/kick martial arts included in the Olympics (how did that happen? WTF Chairman was also Vice Chairman of International Olympic Committee. Hmm! I wonder if that influenced the IOC decision to include TKD.
11.) Olympic Scandal on Judging.
12.) Olympic feasco when competitor kicks judge in face.....which didn't injur the judge.....If TKD kicks are so "lethal" why is that judge still alive? he didn't block. The offender had just lost the "Gold Medal" bout....shouldn't his kick have been lethal?


This will NOT change until the focus is taken off the money and put on the sport!

Every TKD dojang says the same thing.... "We are the best!"
When all is said and done.... it was about the money.....in fact it has always been about the money..... that is why they call it "Take - One's - Do$"

In the words of the immortal Tony Montana; "In this country, you gotta make the money first, then when you get the money, you get the power, when you get the power, then you get the woman."

With regards to number 12, it was a bronze medal repchage match, not the gold medal match. Perhaps that is why he didn't use his "lethal" kick and only used enough force to split the ref's lip open.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I was just checking out the website for Jimmy Kim's TKD Center to see what sort of welcome home that they gave to Charlotte. Lot's of nice pictures and cool little tags to go along.

http://www.jktc.com/

Thanks for posting the link

Daniel

 

[terryl965]

Yes she deserved that welcome, congrats to Charlotte.

 

[mango.man]

Yes she deserved that welcome, congrats to Charlotte.

Terry,

You still coming out here in a few weeks for the JKI?