Can Anyone Identify This Technique For Me?

[Cyriacus]

You mean you take breaks between your bar fights? Seems like wasted time to me. Just sayin

Oh, I prefer fighting whilst parachuting through the air. The barfights are just while i wait for the plane to land.
Also, I dont sleep, rest, or do anything but train on my enemies.

 

[Supra Vijai]

Oh, I prefer fighting whilst parachuting through the air. The barfights are just while i wait for the plane to land.
Also, I dont sleep, rest, or do anything but train on my enemies.

Oh, good to know! Zero G fighting is t3h shiz! Really inspires me to go Super Saiyajin and all that

 

[Cyriacus]

Oh, good to know! Zero G fighting is t3h shiz! Really inspires me to go Super Saiyajin and all that

Yeah man. This one time, I was falling through the air, and I KIAI'd My enemy so hard He just gave up.

 

[GaryR]

I'll hit the rest latei in the most civil way possible, I'd like to see this discourse go in a better direction, but since you questioned my service record I'll clarify this first---

True, I agree I did tend to lead with my head-it is a posture issue, I also have some scoliosis, and lower back problems from Iraq. Your preaching to the choir with lifting the crown etc, but I could/can hold my center just fine thanks.

I'm sorry you have scoliosis. So does one of my children. And your back problem from Iraq? The video was made before the invasion of Iraq

I'm sorry to hear that about your children. Yes the video was made before the invasion, before the invasion I flew operation Northern Watch and Operation Southern watch --also before the Iraq invasion was of course Operation Enduring Freedom..Afghanistan, I loose track of what injuries I got when, but Iraq touches 3 of the 4...back injuries suck, it comes and goes, L5 is shifted and something with SI joint.

Best.,

G

 

[Zenjael]

Ok, I responded to the rest of this on the other thread you posted this response on. If unsure, see here: http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sh...list-and-The-Specialist&p=1500306#post1500306

I did manage to miss your take on the spike there however. Wow, really???? A punch comes in and you jam it with deadly ninjer precision using your elbow to "spike"? For the record, that has completely missed the point of what Cyriacus and I were referring to with the concept of a spike. It's a defensive barrier that's very very gross motor and primal i.e: covering your damn head against incoming punches, end of story. Using the spike to strike is very very very very very very (did I mention very?) gross motor and is used against the torso of your opponent to buy you some valuable space or a split second in order to move away and reassess, not break their fingers with it! I don't see how such a fine motor action would be the normative by any means. Where are you getting that from? I for one, don't like getting punched in the elbow thank you.

I concur. That is how the spike is normally applied, but it has other applications. To the concern of getting struck in the elbow... don't let them. the point is to use the flat of the underside of the point to control the top of their hand, and redirect it.

You could spike a direct punch, but it will require conditioning, and its difficult to do considering its a joint. Not impossible, but highly risky with hard conditioning.

I did not say you had to use my strategy, merely that, that option exists.

 

[Supra Vijai]

I concur. That is how the spike is normally applied, but it has other applications. To the concern of getting struck in the elbow... don't let them. the point is to use the flat of the underside of the point to control the top of their hand, and redirect it.

You could spike a direct punch, but it will require conditioning, and its difficult to do considering its a joint. Not impossible, but highly risky with hard conditioning.

I did not say you had to use my strategy, merely that, that option exists.

Essentially, what I'm getting from this post is the lack of understanding of how a real punch works. A fist travels too fast to catch and even if you have superhuman speed, the target area is quite small. That's using a relatively wide, versatile area such as a palm and fingers never mind concentrating everything to a small point on the elbow (flat underside or otherwise).

Spiking a direct punch is kinda what Cyriacus and I went off on our own little tangent about; it relies on the opponent punching your elbow or you having the presence of mind/speed/skill to throw an elbow up on exactly the right vector to intercept the incoming punch. Sure the planets might align and your elbow will meet their first but it will be a fluke and not something you can repeat under any real adrenaline or speed. Personally, that means it's something I'm not going to rely on or consider a viable option.

 

[Black Belt Jedi]

It would be better if you post a video of this drill. It makes it easier for me to bring some sort of familiarity to the drill. I wonder if its a Koryu-Uchinadi drill.

 

[Zenjael]

Essentially, what I'm getting from this post is the lack of understanding of how a real punch works. A fist travels too fast to catch and even if you have superhuman speed, the target area is quite small. That's using a relatively wide, versatile area such as a palm and fingers never mind concentrating everything to a small point on the elbow (flat underside or otherwise).

Spiking a direct punch is kinda what Cyriacus and I went off on our own little tangent about; it relies on the opponent punching your elbow or you having the presence of mind/speed/skill to throw an elbow up on exactly the right vector to intercept the incoming punch. Sure the planets might align and your elbow will meet their first but it will be a fluke and not something you can repeat under any real adrenaline or speed. Personally, that means it's something I'm not going to rely on or consider a viable option.

The fist does not travel too quickly. You need to work on your reaction time, and speed. Just be faster, and react as quickly as you can.

ure the planets might align and your elbow will meet their first but it will be a fluke and not something you can repeat under any real adrenaline or speed. Personally, that means it's something I'm not going to rely on or consider a viable option.

Then I guess the planets align for me every time I spar. I've found this to be a techniques I employ about once a sparring session. Practice, repetion, and a very high degree of knowing how their telegraphing. I'm almost never caught by a surprise strike. Almost always I can tell where a punch will be. Look at my tags, they say it for me. If you are not where the strike lands, they cannot hurt you. I simply practiced, and learned how to figure out where their strike is coming from.

It isn't difficult, you merely watch their body language, and understand that based on how you are positioned, they will strike with what's vulnerable, based on that knowledge, you simply need to move from where they were intending to strike, once they begin to strike, and it is easy to place your spike right above where they had intended to hit, and then lower and retain control, or deflection.

You must use your reasoning that based upon where you were, is what they are trying to hit. But you'll need to be faster, leagues faster, than they are to pull that off. I happen to be so, naturally, because I am very small, and as I have done the arts my entire life, my physiology is adapted to utilize that speed efficiently. Just as a gymnasts body, or a horsebackriders, or even a swimmers will. It's wolff's law, and it's essential to understanding how to maximize your ability in martial arts, not only for conditioning.

 

[Gnarlie]

The fist does not travel too quickly. You need to work on your reaction time, and speed. Just be faster, and react as quickly as you can.



Then I guess the planets align for me every time I spar. I've found this to be a techniques I employ about once a sparring session. Practice, repetion, and a very high degree of knowing how their telegraphing. I'm almost never caught by a surprise strike. Almost always I can tell where a punch will be. Look at my tags, they say it for me. If you are not where the strike lands, they cannot hurt you. I simply practiced, and learned how to figure out where their strike is coming from.

It isn't difficult, you merely watch their body language, and understand that based on how you are positioned, they will strike with what's vulnerable, based on that knowledge, you simply need to move from where they were intending to strike, once they begin to strike, and it is easy to place your spike right above where they had intended to hit, and then lower and retain control, or deflection.

You must use your reasoning that based upon where you were, is what they are trying to hit. But you'll need to be faster, leagues faster, than they are to pull that off. I happen to be so, naturally, because I am very small, and as I have done the arts my entire life, my physiology is adapted to utilize that speed efficiently. Just as a gymnasts body, or a horsebackriders, or even a swimmers will. It's wolff's law, and it's essential to understanding how to maximize your ability in martial arts, not only for conditioning.

Nonsense on all counts. The fastest punches travel at around 50kph. That's 0.07 of a second to travel an arm's length. A reaction time of less than a tenth of a second is considered a false start im the Olympic 100m sprint. A punch is too fast to catch with a hand, nevermind an elbow. By the time you can react, it has already hit you.

The planets don't align for you every time you spar. The only reason you are able to react is because the punch is too slow and you spar 8 feet from your opponent as we have seen in your video. You're not 'leagues faster' than anyone, you're leagues further away.

And for the record, Wolff's Law illustrates a principle relating to bone growth. It has nothing to do with speed. You have no idea, but keep dreaming.

I found the tone of your post to be patronising, and preachy. Get over yourself.





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[Supra Vijai]

The fist does not travel too quickly. You need to work on your reaction time, and speed. Just be faster, and react as quickly as you can.

Sure thing. Right after I work on my ability to stare down armed robberies. Reacting as quickly as you can when under real danger of harm (even if it perceived at a Dojo) means an adrenaline dump, an "oh sh#t" moment as described by one of my instructors and the flinch response to try get out of the way and quite simply save yourself from that harm. You can then move in and do what you need to after that initial response but it is highly doubtful you will be able to pull anything quite so fine motor when you truly believe you are going to die or be seriously injured. Simply having the calm and control to go directly into an incoming attack which is serious and committed is great in fantasy, not so much in reality. Striving to get there however is what training is all about - constant improvement and refinement - but that doesn't mean you'll ever reach the horizon, only that you took a few steps towards it.

Then I guess the planets align for me every time I spar. I've found this to be a techniques I employ about once a sparring session. Practice, repetion, and a very high degree of knowing how their telegraphing. I'm almost never caught by a surprise strike. Almost always I can tell where a punch will be. Look at my tags, they say it for me. If you are not where the strike lands, they cannot hurt you. I simply practiced, and learned how to figure out where their strike is coming from.

It isn't difficult, you merely watch their body language, and understand that based on how you are positioned, they will strike with what's vulnerable, based on that knowledge, you simply need to move from where they were intending to strike, once they begin to strike, and it is easy to place your spike right above where they had intended to hit, and then lower and retain control, or deflection.

You must use your reasoning that based upon where you were, is what they are trying to hit. But you'll need to be faster, leagues faster, than they are to pull that off. I happen to be so, naturally, because I am very small, and as I have done the arts my entire life, my physiology is adapted to utilize that speed efficiently. Just as a gymnasts body, or a horsebackriders, or even a swimmers will. It's wolff's law, and it's essential to understanding how to maximize your ability in martial arts, not only for conditioning.

So what happens when they don't telegraph? Almost never being hit might be great for tournaments, point fighting or practice in the Dojo but on the street all it can take sometimes is one hit you don't see coming for things to go way south very quickly. Learning to manipulate your opponent in order to dictate what they do is a valuable skill and I'm not about to dismiss that by any means. However, to simply say you watch and move away once begin to strike and then pull off a fine motor action is stretching it a bit. Further, given the above mentioned adrenaline, how many "moves" will it be before you can position your opponent exactly to use that or any other technique? If you are getting into a fight without the mindset of ending things as quickly as possible but rather, working on deflections and manipulating your opponent in order to get a particular jam to work then I'm afraid you aren't understanding actual violence.

Look it's great that you have a small build and that you work on maximizing the potential that offers but no matter what, reaction will ALWAYS be slower than action. How can you react to something that hasn't happened? This clip was recently posted on another thread concerning weapons for self defense but it's a great example of how hard and fast an actual attack can (and most likely, will) be.

If you honestly think you can defend well against that by relying on reading your opponent than I'm afraid we are on two very separate pages

 

[Josh Oakley]

Dammit, gnarlie. I have to seem left like I am agreeing with Zenjael to disagree with you.

Look, man, blocking a punch with your elbow is pretty freaking easy. The elbow does not have to travel far at all to accomplish this, and is usually accompanied by footwork and body rotation. Not only is this possible... it's not even rare.

As for catching a punch... yes it CAN be done. It takes practice and is questionable on practicality at times. But it can be done, and it can be useful.

But Zenjael ... between the two, go with the elbow block. And never try and catch a grappler's punch... he may just let you.

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[Josh Oakley]

I concur. That is how the spike is normally applied, but it has other applications. To the concern of getting struck in the elbow... don't let them. the point is to use the flat of the underside of the point to control the top of their hand, and redirect it.

You could spike a direct punch, but it will require conditioning, and its difficult to do considering its a joint. Not impossible, but highly risky with hard conditioning.

I did not say you had to use my strategy, merely that, that option exists.

The part of the elbow you would use to spike a punch doesn't really require much conditioning, if any. It is a lot more durable than a hand.

In fact, if you ever decide to practice this, start slow and make sure your partner gloves up, ideally with boxing gloves. This is for his protection more than yours.

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[Gnarlie]

Dammit, gnarlie. I have to seem left like I am agreeing with Zenjael to disagree with you.

Look, man, blocking a punch with your elbow is pretty freaking easy. The elbow does not have to travel far at all to accomplish this, and is usually accompanied by footwork and body rotation. Not only is this possible... it's not even rare.

As for catching a punch... yes it CAN be done. It takes practice and is questionable on practicality at times. But it can be done, and it can be useful.

But Zenjael ... between the two, go with the elbow block. And never try and catch a grappler's punch... he may just let you.

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I don't deny that a punch can be anticipated and guided onto the elbow with a block to the side of the arm, but I do question the practicality of having time to react, dodge a punch, and replace the target with your elbow in the time it takes to throw a punch at close range.

PS you don't have to agree with either of us, there's a LOT of room in the middle.

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[jks9199]

I don't deny that a punch can be anticipated and guided onto the elbow with a block to the side of the arm, but I do question the practicality of having time to react, dodge a punch, and replace the target with your elbow in the time it takes to throw a punch at close range.

PS you don't have to agree with either of us, there's a LOT of room in the middle.

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Done as you describe -- I agree, success is unlikely. But if you recognize a punch is coming, say at your jaw, and you simply evade and allow your elbow to replace your jaw, it becomes much more doable. (Note, please, I did not say easy!)

 

[Josh Oakley]

Originally Posted by Josh Oakley<br />
Dammit, gnarlie. I have to seem left like I am agreeing with Zenjael to disagree with you. <br />
<br />
Look, man, blocking a punch with your elbow is pretty freaking easy. The elbow does not have to travel far at all to accomplish this, and is usually accompanied by footwork and body rotation. Not only is this possible... it's not even rare.<br />
<br />
As for catching a punch... yes it CAN be done. It takes practice and is questionable on practicality at times. But it can be done, and it can be useful.<br />
<br />
But Zenjael ... between the two, go with the elbow block. And never try and catch a grappler's punch... he may just let you.<br />
<br />
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

<br />
<br />
I don't deny that a punch can be anticipated and guided onto the elbow with a block to the side of the arm, but I do question the practicality of having time to react, dodge a punch, and replace the target with your elbow in the time it takes to throw a punch at close range. <br />
<br />
PS you don't have to agree with either of us, there's a LOT of room in the middle. <br />
<br />
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2

Define close range. Clinch range? If you block it is mostly with elbows anyway. Punch range? If your guard is up it is quicker than a traditional block for a straight line punch. And i don't hit the side of the arm. I hit the fist. And honestly, its not even a rare skill.

Circular punch to the head? Okay, then it is unfeasible.
Uppercut? Questionable.

But straight line... not as hard as you think. Give it a try.

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[Josh Oakley]

You won't always get your body off the line in time, true. But the elbow only has to travel about three to six inches to pull it off. It is best for punches to your chest or gut. If they're throwing at your head, use checks.

This is of course with your guard up.

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[Gnarlie]

Define close range. Clinch range? If you block it is mostly with elbows anyway. Punch range? If your guard is up it is quicker than a traditional block for a straight line punch. And i don't hit the side of the arm. I hit the fist. And honestly, its not even a rare skill.

Circular punch to the head? Okay, then it is unfeasible.
Uppercut? Questionable.

But straight line... not as hard as you think. Give it a try.

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By close I mean punching range, but are you and Zenjael describing the same thing? Guarding the body against body shots by rotating the body and moving the elbows 2 or 3 inches from their resting position in guard such that incoming strikes meet the front of the forearm near the point of the elbow is certainly feasible. I understand this is what you mean, do I understand correctly?

Dropping the spike of the elbow onto the top of a punching hand is something else. That's what I understand he means - slip offline, replace the target with the slightly raised elbow, and drop it onto the top of the hand in motion to redirect it (although I'm not sure what he's redirecting away from when he's moved offline anyway). All in the time it takes to punch. Sounds like fantasy to me, and with such a short motion path onto the top of the hand there's no power there anyway. Any power from the opponent is negated by aiming for the top of the hand, as the elbow has to come out of the line of the punch to do that.

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[Josh Oakley]

Oh. Well if he's talking like that... yeah, that is unfeasible, unless you are dealing with the attacker who does a step-through punch and holds it there politely.

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[Supra Vijai]

Oh. Well if he's talking like that... yeah, that is unfeasible, unless you are dealing with the attacker who does a step-through punch and holds it there politely.

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Yeah, pretty much mate. Realism is sorely lacking in that situation which is what Gnarlie, Cyriacus and I all had issues with. As you say and Gnarlie describes however, it's much more gross motor which translates as being much more reliable under pressure against an attacker who isn't so polite

 

[Tez3]

Oh. Well if he's talking like that... yeah, that is unfeasible, unless you are dealing with the attacker who does a step-through punch and holds it there politely.

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As happens in poor training! Gives people a false impression of what they can do in a real situation.