Can Anyone Identify This Technique For Me?

[Tez3]

This I would agree. The MODERN form of TSD is Karate... essentially. Even their gi's are so similar it could be classified within that branch of art style. The original, where it obtained its name, was based on Chinese arts. You can argue the name is being misused... but it's semantics at that point, literally.



Repetition is the only way to improve. Without it, you're just contemplating.



I don't think I've ever been jammed by choice. You train so that your response is instinctive, but a knee-jerk reaction to anything is liable to eventually be misused, it be countered, or in many ways be turned against you. I value training to get the instinctual response, but not the action itself. When you can react, instinctively, using the plethora of what you know, there is no reason to get that jamming. It has never happened to me, so I think the cautionary tale, at best, is just that.

If someone is getting jammed, it might be the case they don't actually know what the technique they are using is for, what it is best against, and in all the fashions. And because they do not know, because they think, they might get stuck. Be confidant... and what technique to employ, and you will be fine.

A standard elbow pivot from muai thai is usually enough to deflect most punches, whereas in close quarters, if I cannot beat their handwork with my own, I'll resort to chambering knee strikes from Chung Do Kwan. Every technique is part of the ultimate equation. You want it to be perfect, and harmonious, without wasted energy or effort.

I don't pick and choose, at least not in the sense implied by that particular wording. I use what works, for me, and do not. There is a place where perhaps I could use it, by why would I implement the wrist work from Wing Chun, when the ox-jaw works well as it is (given I occasionally suffer from carpal tunnel thanks to computer work? I'm just saying at some point 'picking and choosing' isn't out of a party bag, and does rest on strategy.

And honestly, since we're not even discussing the point of this thread, I'd say it should be closed before it delineates and we have more fodder for the horror section.

Their Gis are the same so that makes it the same art? so if I bought a Judo gi and did karate that would make karate Judo? What if I did karate in a skirt, what would that make it?

Jammed? Is that an Americanism I'm not familar with? What does that mean? you are being jammed in a small space? you have a pot of jam thrown over you?

Really, I don't know about the thread wandering off but you certainly are! I've no idea what you are talking about, fighting harmoniously? I'll settle for damaging my attacker with the least damage to me.

 

[Cyriacus]

I don't think I've ever been jammed by choice. You train so that your response is instinctive, but a knee-jerk reaction to anything is liable to eventually be misused, it be countered, or in many ways be turned against you. I value training to get the instinctual response, but not the action itself. When you can react, instinctively, using the plethora of what you know, there is no reason to get that jamming. It has never happened to me, so I think the cautionary tale, at best, is just that.

If someone is getting jammed, it might be the case they don't actually know what the technique they are using is for, what it is best against, and in all the fashions. And because they do not know, because they think, they might get stuck. Be confidant... and what technique to employ, and you will be fine.

Jamming doesnt just happen. Its something a fighters opponent does deliberately. Its a skill, a method. And it can be used on anyone whos learnt any system. And when two people jam each other, well, get ready for some mean inside fighting. When Your opponent does things to circumvent Your picture perfect techniques, You can be left in a jam. Which is why not having a large arsenal, or relying on accuracy, can be preferable. Its also why I dislike Combinations as more than a small part of training.

Then of course theres the other definition of jamming. I know noone has mentioned it, but im mentioning it now. Even if your technique is perfect, and you dont get choice jammed, if Your opponent jams, as in, locks up or restrains or otherwise compresses you in such a way that you can barely use anything, you can become choice jammed crossing off all the things that just became completely useless and unusable in your arsenal.




Im editing this to explain the first paragraph a bit better.
You think to Yourself, Chop to neck > 2-3 fast strikes to the body!
You go to throw the chop to the neck, but you get punched in the face the moment you begin to move. Now Your opponent is doing their thing, and Youre deciding what to do next. You wouldnt have to decide what to do next, if you only had, say, two options. Lets say, Straight and Hook Punches. Now, you only need to throw your arm, and whichever one it does will be correct. No thought necessary. I remember you like open handy stuff, so slapping in the general direction of the ears, in your case. See? Now you dont even need to make a choice. The choice is already made. You dont even need to react to the situation, you can react to almost any situation, the same way.

 

[Tez3]

Ok so what's 'jamming' if I haven't heard it in martial arts after 20 years it must be a 'new' word for something old lol!

 

[Cyriacus]

Ok so what's 'jamming' if I haven't heard it in martial arts after 20 years it must be a 'new' word for something old lol!

When Zanjael said it, He was referring to getting stuck on deciding what to do. The second way it was used, by me, which is the most common way, is when you jam up to your opponent so that they can barely do anything. One example is charging into someone and clinching right up. Now, either you can let go and start hitting them, or you pretty much have to have a wrestling match.

 

[Tez3]

When Zanjael said it, He was referring to getting stuck on deciding what to do. The second way it was used, by me, which is the most common way, is when you jam up to your opponent so that they can barely do anything. One example is charging into someone and clinching right up. Now, either you can let go and start hitting them, or you pretty much have to have a wrestling match.

Thank you, glad you know what he means. Just clinching is what I know it as or 'hanging on for dear life' perhaps? In MMA we still hit them without letting go lol.

 

[Cyriacus]

Thank you, glad you know what he means. Just clinching is what I know it as or 'hanging on for dear life' perhaps? In MMA we still hit them without letting go lol.

Its more how you get to the clinch. An example could perhaps be, Your opponent throws a right hook. You cover your head in something like a boxing guard, and ram your body into them. Or, you shoot as if for a double leg takedown, but just grab them forcefully around the waist, then come up in a clinch. Its literally jamming. If im not mistaken, a bodylock is what its called, when you pull yourself right in. If youre in the dominant position with it, yeah, the other guy can hit back. But you can, at just about any time, put yourself into a great position, or get off a good throw. Another example could be a roundhouse kick. Move in towards it, and just focus on grabbing the other guy around the head. Its all jamming Another way to jam is to strike a striking limb. Opponent throws a jab, jab their hand out of the air and move right on in. But thats getting vague, and stretching the definition.

 

[Tez3]

Its more how you get to the clinch. An example could perhaps be, Your opponent throws a right hook. You cover your head in something like a boxing guard, and ram your body into them. Or, you shoot as if for a double leg takedown, but just grab them forcefully around the waist, then come up in a clinch. Its literally jamming. If im not mistaken, a bodylock is what its called, when you pull yourself right in. If youre in the dominant position with it, yeah, the other guy can hit back. But you can, at just about any time, put yourself into a great position, or get off a good throw. Another example could be a roundhouse kick. Move in towards it, and just focus on grabbing the other guy around the head. Its all jamming Another way to jam is to strike a striking limb. Opponent throws a jab, jab their hand out of the air and move right on in. But thats getting vague, and stretching the definition.

Being a lady I never throw myself at anyone lol, seriously though being small it doesn't work that way, I'm more likely to bounce off them unless I'm attacked by a midget.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Being a lady I never throw myself at anyone lol, seriously though being small it doesn't work that way, I'm more likely to bounce off them unless I'm attacked by a midget.

A five pound rock will bounce off your head, but it still hurts.

 

[Cyriacus]

Being a lady I never throw myself at anyone lol, seriously though being small it doesn't work that way, I'm more likely to bounce off them unless I'm attacked by a midget.

I sometimes forget that im a tall person

 

[Supra Vijai]

When Zanjael said it, He was referring to getting stuck on deciding what to do. The second way it was used, by me, which is the most common way, is when you jam up to your opponent so that they can barely do anything. One example is charging into someone and clinching right up. Now, either you can let go and start hitting them, or you pretty much have to have a wrestling match.

Hmm, I use the term "jam" to refer to check as well. In your next post you mention throwing a hand up against a right hook, that to me is a "jamming" action

*EDIT BECAUSE I HIT REPLY TOO EARLY!!!*

Your opponent throws a right hook. You cover your head in something like a boxing guard, and ram your body into them.

I've heard of this referred to as a "spike" within the Krav Maga school I trained at briefly. Literally your elbows form a point like that of a spike which you use to drive into your opponent to drive them back.

With regards to the swatting the jab out of the way and moving in, would that still be "jamming" or moving more into the "countering" territory? I see it as the latter but that could just be my understanding of the terminology

 

[Supra Vijai]

Being a lady I never throw myself at anyone

Not even me??? :ultracool

 

[Chris Parker]

This I would agree. The MODERN form of TSD is Karate... essentially. Even their gi's are so similar it could be classified within that branch of art style. The original, where it obtained its name, was based on Chinese arts. You can argue the name is being misused... but it's semantics at that point, literally.

Really? Might you be able to provide, oh, any evidence whatsoever for Tang Soo Do being a martial art before 1945, where it was directly taken from Shotokan karate? You remember what I said about the rest of your comments as being "full of fantasy, badly researched..."?

Yeah. That.

Repetition is the only way to improve. Without it, you're just contemplating.

Not exactly. After all, repeating poor form, bad distancing, bad angling, poor technique etc is just going to imprint such bad technique (and so on). And I'm not sure what you're meaning by "contemplating"...

I don't think I've ever been jammed by choice. You train so that your response is instinctive, but a knee-jerk reaction to anything is liable to eventually be misused, it be countered, or in many ways be turned against you. I value training to get the instinctual response, but not the action itself. When you can react, instinctively, using the plethora of what you know, there is no reason to get that jamming. It has never happened to me, so I think the cautionary tale, at best, is just that.

If someone is getting jammed, it might be the case they don't actually know what the technique they are using is for, what it is best against, and in all the fashions. And because they do not know, because they think, they might get stuck. Be confidant... and what technique to employ, and you will be fine.

A standard elbow pivot from muai thai is usually enough to deflect most punches, whereas in close quarters, if I cannot beat their handwork with my own, I'll resort to chambering knee strikes from Chung Do Kwan. Every technique is part of the ultimate equation. You want it to be perfect, and harmonious, without wasted energy or effort.

I don't pick and choose, at least not in the sense implied by that particular wording. I use what works, for me, and do not. There is a place where perhaps I could use it, by why would I implement the wrist work from Wing Chun, when the ox-jaw works well as it is (given I occasionally suffer from carpal tunnel thanks to computer work? I'm just saying at some point 'picking and choosing' isn't out of a party bag, and does rest on strategy.

Honestly, all that tells me is that you've never really experienced adrenaline or real pressure, because there's a hell of a lot wrong in that as well.

And honestly, since we're not even discussing the point of this thread, I'd say it should be closed before it delineates and we have more fodder for the horror section.

Yeah... not your call, though. But before it is closed, would you care to answer any question put forth? Such as where you get your "understanding" of Southern CMA kicking methods from? When asked you cited Korean and Japanese arts... not sure if your geography is out, but they're not Chinese.

 

[Cyriacus]

I've heard of this referred to as a "spike" within the Krav Maga school I trained at briefly. Literally your elbows form a point like that of a spike which you use to drive into your opponent to drive them back.

Yep! You can also have one elbow slightly higher than the other, so that only one makes contact. That way, you can easily move into grappling territory by grabbing behind the head.

With regards to the swatting the jab out of the way and moving in, would that still be "jamming" or moving more into the "countering" territory? I see it as the latter but that could just be my understanding of the terminology

Well, id call it jamming to an extent. If you force the jab out of the way whilst moving in, id call that a jam. What you do after, is countering.

Edit: I swear my keyboard must have bugged out there. I edited a bunch of weird typos.

 

[Supra Vijai]

Yep! You can also have one elbow slightly higher than the other, so that only one makes contact. That way, you can easily move into grappling territory by grabbing behind the head.

Yeah that was one of the drills covered. Basic spike to either push back, down or back and down. Then spike while angling to be able to move into a grapple or a hold of some sort - usually followed by knees from myself but there were a few options presented depending on how you ended up.

Well, id call it jamming to an extent. Iif you force the jab out of the way whilst moving in, id call that a jam. What you do after, is countering.

Edit: I swear my keyboard must have bugged out there. I edited a bunch of weird typos.

Ahh rightio, that makes sense when you read it as intended and not as one term referring to the whole thing. Thanks

 

[GaryR]

Hello, I haven't posted in awhile, but I am hoping someone may be able to offer me insight.

I believe this is called chaining techniques, but this can also refer to consecutively throwing multiple techniques together in a string.

What I am referring to is what stops just short of merging techniques (such as a chop with the ridge hand for a pressing chop) and is this;

the person initiates the handstrike by extending the hand fingers extended like a spearhand. The hand extends toward the target, and before contact is made, the hand folds into a fist and connects. I've found this technique, which I learned from emulating another teacher of mine, is superior to a normal punch, because it allows a person to get through a person's defenses, pretty much every time. My teacher had a reputation that no matter how you held your hands, or tried to defend, he could always connect, and I believe this is the technique why.

It very much is a spear-hand to a punch, though I have altered it to go spearhand to palm strike, though I have also been able to insert ridge-hand techniques into it now.

Does anyone have any idea what this process is called, or what this technique is called?

I am also unsure if I should tense the fingers as I extend the arm with a spearhand, for though the arm is loose, I can see both advantage and disadvantage from locking the fingers. For example, if blocked, it could lead to injury. If retained loose the fingers can also transition to the next hand position more easily. For now I keep them loose until I've found definitive answers, but so far have unfortunately not.

I found this technique in Chung Do Kwan, though I can see how it could have been pulled from Wing Chun. Thank you to whoever can point me in the right direction.

I agree that closing the hand before impact is a great way to punch. Keep the fingers loose, don't lock them; you can strike with them - and tensed/locked they can be damaged easily. Closing the fist throughout the whole of your movement is actually quite beginner / less effective. With an open hand your options for intercept, blending, redirecting, & striking instruments are available on the fly--(palm, fingers, pisform bone (on palm heel etc.) Closing you fist from the get-go forecloses on many better/alternative combative options.

Its harder to train in than a regular punch, but better in the long run. Also if you punch in a tight ellipse/circle - the movement can be continuous - no stop start - one-step, two-step.

Best,

Gary

 

[Supra Vijai]

Keep the fingers loose, don't lock them; you can strike with them - and tensed/locked they can be damaged easily.

Sure if you're going for a strike utilising the finger tips, even then I'd say there needs to be some tension at moment of impact. The technique in question from the OP was landing with a punch though so not sure how appropriate it is to not have a solid fist landing?

Closing you fist from the get-go forecloses on many better/alternative combative options.

Amongst other (potentially more important) reasons if I understand my lessons correctly.

Also if you punch in a tight ellipse/circle - the movement can be continuous - no stop start - one-step, two-step.

Naturally retracting the arm after a punch is one thing but if you punch in tight circles like with a resistance band, how much of your body weight is actually being transferred through the strike? As far as I can picture it, it seems like a series of taps which may be fast sure but not particularly devastating.

 

[GaryR]

*double post by accident*

How does one delete a post, I don't see the option??

 

[GaryR]

Sure if you're going for a strike utilising the finger tips, even then I'd say there needs to be some tension at moment of impact. The technique in question from the OP was landing with a punch though so not sure how appropriate it is to not have a solid fist landing?

Yup, I mentioned both striking w/closed fist and finger strikes as separate animal. I said nothing about not having a solid fist land, closing before impact does not mean the fist is "loose", of course it needs to be strong enough to do the job and not damage your wrist/hand. As for the finger strikes, they of course need to have enough tension in them to get the strike/job done - completely floppy or locked/tensed is not the way to go - there is a sweet spot of "form" in the fingers - more easily shown than described, we likely are doing the same thing here, most people I find know how to naturally adjust their finger strikes if they do any sort of bag work. I also like to use a BOB (body opponent bag) to practice finger strikes, the BOB is hard enough to mimic a human target, and ensure you can apply power w/out hurting yourself.

Naturally retracting the arm after a punch is one thing but if you punch in tight circles like with a resistance band, how much of your body weight is actually being transferred through the strike? As far as I can picture it, it seems like a series of taps which may be fast sure but not particularly devastating.

This method of punching is not common, its not surprising you can't fathom it. The body weight can be/is behind it. The power is generated from the feet up - turning the waist, exploding-expanding, contracting, coiling/spiraling - its all body mechanics and physics. Also behind the strike is "fajing" or explosive energy - its a concept from internal martial arts, again, not common to find people who can apply fajing and full body power mechanics to seamless elliptical punches.

It's far from a series of taps, each strike can be stronger, faster, and smoother than a reverse punch, as well as better than wing chuns "chain punching" which is good, but still lacking power/mechanics by comparison.

best,

G

 

[Supra Vijai]

This method of punching is not common, its not surprising you can't fathom it. The body weight can be/is behind it. The power is generated from the feet up - turning the waist, exploding-expanding, contracting, coiling/spiraling - its all body mechanics and physics. Also behind the strike is "fajing" or explosive energy - its a concept from internal martial arts, again, not common to find people who can apply fajing and full body power mechanics to seamless elliptical punches.

Please tell me you didn't just talk to me like you were the only person who knew anything about kinetic linking and generating explosive power? Our white belts are taught kinetic linking as part of the absolute basics and it's a topic we constantly revisit and refine.

It's far from a series of taps, each strike can be stronger, faster, and smoother than a reverse punch, as well as better than wing chuns "chain punching" which is good, but still lacking power/mechanics by comparison.

Again, that's a big claim. The first thread we interacted on it seemed briefly like we had a similar point of view about certain things but honestly, almost every reply you've posted since has been in some way detrimental to another art whilst pushing the idea that you are the Supreme Master and can teach or improve any one else you come across regardless of their background, experience or chosen art. How are you meant to teach and truly recognize the flaws of others when you seem unable/unwilling to learn and recognize your own shortcomings? Just for the record, issuing a challenge or saying "let's train together so I can correct you" just illustrates what I'm talking about.

 

[clfsean]

Actually Gary, a circle in most CMA punches is common IME. Most everything you mentioned is found in proper CMA foundational training. Tun To Fo Chum... punching with an ellipsis on the arm to deliver the strike with the energy pulled from the feet, etc... No big secret, just proper basics.