Can Anyone Identify This Technique For Me?

[Zenjael]

I was actually being serious - Of course They have teeping, but I find it humorous to jab at them not using the things too much, as compared to circular kicks.

All too true. Though, I take a stance of employing both. I find circles generate great power, while straight lines serve to guide them. One of the strongest kicks I have is a Roundhouse kick from WTF TKD, which employs a chamber from the kicking style of Shotokan. Instead of it being a straight roundhouse, or a round-kick (knee+leg are angled horizontally to ground) it's more of a 45 degree kick. It's still a roundhouse, and can be mistaken for a normal roundhouse from TKD, but the chamber is there, which at least in the WTF TKD (Moo Duk Kwan) I learned, isn't present apart from flying sidekicks.

What ... Exactly ... Do you know or more likely, think you know, about southern CMA leg work?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD. Please excuse typos & brevity of posts.

I hope I can answer this in a way that is satisfactory. If not, my apologies, and I welcome any and all correction.

From what I understand, Korean legwork dates back over 2000 years, and arguably takes inspiration from Chinese Martial arts. Tang Soo Do directly translates to 'way of the Chinese hand' so take that as you will. No one knows where the origins of Tang Soo Do drew their inspiration, but much of Korea's culture has been innovation atop Chinese culture. Korean adaptation of the CMA's seems possible... especially when the name of the origin style IS 'Way of Chinese hand'.

I'm not sure how to answer your question, as you're asking a very broad question, but I feel like you expect some kind of specificity.

 

[clfsean]

I hope I can answer this in a way that is satisfactory. If not, my apologies, and I welcome any and all correction.

From what I understand, Korean legwork dates back over 2000 years, and arguably takes inspiration from Chinese Martial arts. Tang Soo Do directly translates to 'way of the Chinese hand' so take that as you will. No one knows where the origins of Tang Soo Do drew their inspiration, but much of Korea's culture has been innovation atop Chinese culture. Korean adaptation of the CMA's seems possible... especially when the name of the origin style IS 'Way of Chinese hand'.

I'm not sure how to answer your question, as you're asking a very broad question, but I feel like you expect some kind of specificity.

Well... I'm curious about your experience with Southern Chinese Martial Arts. You have made reference to our kicking. You mentioned it, so I want to know about your experience with southern kicking training techniques, your experience in application/theories/power generation ... That kind of stuff. I don't really see where Tang Soo Do plays anywhere into your comments concerning that.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD. Please excuse typos & brevity of posts.

 

[Tez3]

All too true. Though, I take a stance of employing both. I find circles generate great power, while straight lines serve to guide them. One of the strongest kicks I have is a Roundhouse kick from WTF TKD, which employs a chamber from the kicking style of Shotokan. Instead of it being a straight roundhouse, or a round-kick (knee+leg are angled horizontally to ground) it's more of a 45 degree kick. It's still a roundhouse, and can be mistaken for a normal roundhouse from TKD, but the chamber is there, which at least in the WTF TKD (Moo Duk Kwan) I learned, isn't present apart from flying sidekicks.



I hope I can answer this in a way that is satisfactory. If not, my apologies, and I welcome any and all correction.

From what I understand, Korean legwork dates back over 2000 years, and arguably takes inspiration from Chinese Martial arts. Tang Soo Do directly translates to 'way of the Chinese hand' so take that as you will. No one knows where the origins of Tang Soo Do drew their inspiration, but much of Korea's culture has been innovation atop Chinese culture. Korean adaptation of the CMA's seems possible... especially when the name of the origin style IS 'Way of Chinese hand'.

I'm not sure how to answer your question, as you're asking a very broad question, but I feel like you expect some kind of specificity.

You know very little about TSD if you can't see that it comes from Shotokan karate and as for it being thousands of years old....

 

[Zenjael]

You know very little about TSD if you can't see that it comes from Shotokan karate and as for it being thousands of years old....

From my understanding there are two forms of tang soo do, the original korean martial art (also known as subak) which split into Taekyon and yusul. Later, a new vein would be created in the 1940s by Hwang Ke. The later vein was based in large part on the prior, based off a recovered text. Though this is debated. Chung Do Kwan, definitely has its roots in Shotokan.

TSD/MDK is really grounded much more in taekyon than anything else. The tornado kick is ripped right out of that martial art.

Also, can we get back to the subject of the OP so this doesn't delineate. If you would like to talk about my background, let's do it in private, and keep to the subject matter. Keeps it simple, and from going the way things have before.

Thx.

 

[Tez3]

From my understanding there are two forms of tang soo do, the original korean martial art (also known as subak) which split into Taekyon and yusul. Later, a new vein would be created in the 1940s by Hwang Ke. The later vein was based in large part on the prior, based off a recovered text. Though this is debated. Chung Do Kwan, definately has its roots in Shotokan.

TSD/MDK is really grounded much more in taekyon than anything else. The tornado kick is ripped right out of that martial art.

The tornado kick is TKD not TSD.

I take it there isn't an style or art you know nothing about, you've studied them all I assume?

 

[Cyriacus]

All too true. Though, I take a stance of employing both. I find circles generate great power, while straight lines serve to guide them. One of the strongest kicks I have is a Roundhouse kick from WTF TKD, which employs a chamber from the kicking style of Shotokan.

I for one can Side Kick harder than any other kick - But thats just Me.

 

[Tez3]

It must be so useful to be able to pick techniques out of so many different styles. However I'm reminded of that old story I've heard tell of the fox and the cat who sat under a tree discussing what would happen if the hunt came upon them, the fox was boasting of the all the things he could do if the hounds were after him, the cat said she only had one thing she could do, just as the fox was shaking his head at the her, the hounds were heard baying quite closely, the cat shot up the tree, the fox sat there debating which of his many, many techniques for evading the hounds he should use, he was still doing this when the hounds caught him. One technique done well versus many, guess which wins.

 

[Cyriacus]

It must be so useful to be able to pick techniques out of so many different styles. However I'm reminded of that old story I've heard tell of the fox and the cat who sat under a tree discussing what would happen if the hunt came upon them, the fox was boasting of the all the things he could do if the hounds were after him, the cat said she only had one thing she could do, just as the fox was shaking his head at the her, the hounds were heard baying quite closely, the cat shot up the tree, the fox sat there debating which of his many, many techniques for evading the hounds he should use, he was still doing this when the hounds caught him. One technique done well versus many, guess which wins.

The one that lands first?

 

[Chris Parker]

From what I understand, Korean legwork dates back over 2000 years, and arguably takes inspiration from Chinese Martial arts. Tang Soo Do directly translates to 'way of the Chinese hand' so take that as you will. No one knows where the origins of Tang Soo Do drew their inspiration, but much of Korea's culture has been innovation atop Chinese culture. Korean adaptation of the CMA's seems possible... especially when the name of the origin style IS 'Way of Chinese hand'.

I'm not sure how to answer your question, as you're asking a very broad question, but I feel like you expect some kind of specificity.

From my understanding there are two forms of tang soo do, the original korean martial art (also known as subak) which split into Taekyon and yusul. Later, a new vein would be created in the 1940s by Hwang Ke. The later vein was based in large part on the prior, based off a recovered text. Though this is debated. Chung Do Kwan, definitely has its roots in Shotokan.

TSD/MDK is really grounded much more in taekyon than anything else. The tornado kick is ripped right out of that martial art.

Also, can we get back to the subject of the OP so this doesn't delineate. If you would like to talk about my background, let's do it in private, and keep to the subject matter. Keeps it simple, and from going the way things have before.

Thx.

See, Alex, this is why we say for you to not put yourself forth as an expert in anything here.... Tang Soo Do is basically the Korean rendering of "Karate". The rest of this is so full of fantasy and badly researched "history" that you're better off just forgetting it all, and starting again. In a word, no.

EDIT: Oh, and nothing about your post said you have a clue about Southern Chinese martial arts kicking methods. You noticed that, right?

 

[Tez3]

The one that lands first?

Which will be the one you train/rehearse for and can do instinctively knowing that it is effective. I don't think young Zenjael has ever heard of KISS.

 

[Supra Vijai]

I don't think young Zenjael has ever heard of KISS.

Why you little... I'll K.I.S.S *YOU*!

Hmm... doesn't work so well.... never mind!

 

[Cyriacus]

Which will be the one you train/rehearse for and can do instinctively knowing that it is effective. I don't think young Zenjael has ever heard of KISS.

Exactly. For Me, itd more than likely be a right handed punch.

 

[Tez3]

Ah Vijai, as soon as I win the lottery I'm off to Oz, I promise!

Reading about how 'good' someone is at multiple styles and techniques makes me feel tired! What on earth is wrong with having one style and learning as much as you can about it and training the techniques in that? Even in MMA we have basics and don't pretend we know all styles, we use the techniques that work in a competitive environment.

I'm interested in all martial arts, I know of a great many, I've even had taster sessions with them at seminars, however I haven't trained them and for me to start arguing with the practitioners of these styles would be absurd. I can see differences and the things that are the same within styles as I'm sure any experienced martial artist can but to claim knowledge in all styles is ridiculous...and tiresome. :idunno:

 

[Supra Vijai]

Ah Vijai, as soon as I win the lottery I'm off to Oz, I promise!

Only if you promise a regiment of the Queens Guards and or Scots Guards won't suddenly decide to come down with you for a holiday, or next thing I know... Oh, look! They feel like using a poor ninja for target practice!

Reading about how 'good' someone is at multiple styles and techniques makes me feel tired! What on earth is wrong with having one style and learning as much as you can about it and training the techniques in that? Even in MMA we have basics and don't pretend we know all styles, we use the techniques that work in a competitive environment.

I'm interested in all martial arts, I know of a great many, I've even had taster sessions with them at seminars, however I haven't trained them and for me to start arguing with the practitioners of these styles would be absurd. I can see differences and the things that are the same within styles as I'm sure any experienced martial artist can but to claim knowledge in all styles is ridiculous...and tiresome. :idunno:

Agreed. I for one am interested in the cross training aspect and I might very well do that if I find an art that suits me but only after I get to sufficient skill in my primary art so as not to become the fox in your story from earlier. I've tried my hand at cross training and found I'm not nearly at that level yet so while I can say I know a technique or two from something else, I am by no means proficient at them let alone a master! It seems a lot of people recently don't share that attitude however, instead they believe they are more credible and/or formidable if they collect arts and techniques without really investing in any of them. I like to think of these people as a source of amusement though and use all the responses they generate to actually do any learning so that takes out a lot of the "tiresome" aspect for me

With regards to the OP though, go back to Page 1 of this thread and read the post by Grenadier (Post #4) or by JKS (Post #7). Print them out maybe and stick them on your monitor so you can see it all the time. Record an audio file and play it back on an mp3 player or your phone on loop. It's how we train at the higher levels. It's safer for your fingers unless you've done serious conditioning and ideally you should never need to chain 15 strikes together to get a desired effect or you're not hitting particularly well I'm afraid. It might help to think of it less as links of a chain that must be followed in sequence but rather as a fluid state in which you move freely as required and as the situation dictates. But, if you are finding yourself standing there hitting someone 15 times and having not much effect.... RUN LIKE HELL. You are not going to know what hit you when they get bored/annoyed and decide to end it.

 

[Gentle Fist]

Hello, I haven't posted in awhile, but I am hoping someone may be able to offer me insight.

I believe this is called chaining techniques, but this can also refer to consecutively throwing multiple techniques together in a string.

What I am referring to is what stops just short of merging techniques (such as a chop with the ridge hand for a pressing chop) and is this;

the person initiates the handstrike by extending the hand fingers extended like a spearhand. The hand extends toward the target, and before contact is made, the hand folds into a fist and connects. I've found this technique, which I learned from emulating another teacher of mine, is superior to a normal punch, because it allows a person to get through a person's defenses, pretty much every time. My teacher had a reputation that no matter how you held your hands, or tried to defend, he could always connect, and I believe this is the technique why.

It very much is a spear-hand to a punch, though I have altered it to go spearhand to palm strike, though I have also been able to insert ridge-hand techniques into it now.

Does anyone have any idea what this process is called, or what this technique is called?

I am also unsure if I should tense the fingers as I extend the arm with a spearhand, for though the arm is loose, I can see both advantage and disadvantage from locking the fingers. For example, if blocked, it could lead to injury. If retained loose the fingers can also transition to the next hand position more easily. For now I keep them loose until I've found definitive answers, but so far have unfortunately not.

I found this technique in Chung Do Kwan, though I can see how it could have been pulled from Wing Chun. Thank you to whoever can point me in the right direction.

If you're trying to go through someones defense then why not use a distractor first? A closed fist is not all that much bigger than a spear hand strike... So what is the advantage in slipping the defense when the cost is a couple of broken digits?

 

[Supra Vijai]

I've found this technique, which I learned from emulating another teacher of mine, is superior to a normal punch, because it allows a person to get through a person's defenses, pretty much every time. My teacher had a reputation that no matter how you held your hands, or tried to defend, he could always connect, and I believe this is the technique why.

I just re-read the OP and am not sure if this has been covered already but, ASK YOUR TEACHER! If you're emulating him and he has built a reputation on it then surely he can tell you what it's called even if he doesn't think you're ready to know the "secret" behind it.

 

[clfsean]

Also, can we get back to the subject of the OP so this doesn't delineate. If you would like to talk about my background, let's do it in private, and keep to the subject matter. Keeps it simple, and from going the way things have before.

Thx.

Ummm... no. You brought up the topic of southern CMA kicking as if you were some authority. So given your past history, I want to know what your experience is. You opened the door with the statement.

You've had a couple of days now to figure out how to answer my question. I've given specifics. I'd like the answers now... unless there's something you'd prefer to say that will probably be a little closer to the truth.

 

[MJS]

Just a quick note. This thread was starting to drift into 2 topics. There were a number of posts that were talking about the generalist and the specialist martial artist. I've split those posts into a new thread, which can be found here. Please feel free to continue to discussion on that topic, there.

 

[Zenjael]

See, Alex, this is why we say for you to not put yourself forth as an expert in anything here.... Tang Soo Do is basically the Korean rendering of "Karate". The rest of this is so full of fantasy and badly researched "history" that you're better off just forgetting it all, and starting again. In a word, no.

This I would agree. The MODERN form of TSD is Karate... essentially. Even their gi's are so similar it could be classified within that branch of art style. The original, where it obtained its name, was based on Chinese arts. You can argue the name is being misused... but it's semantics at that point, literally.

Which will be the one you train/rehearse for and can do instinctively knowing that it is effective. I don't think young Zenjael has ever heard of KISS.

Repetition is the only way to improve. Without it, you're just contemplating.

It must be so useful to be able to pick techniques out of so many different styles. However I'm reminded of that old story I've heard tell of the fox and the cat who sat under a tree discussing what would happen if the hunt came upon them, the fox was boasting of the all the things he could do if the hounds were after him, the cat said she only had one thing she could do, just as the fox was shaking his head at the her, the hounds were heard baying quite closely, the cat shot up the tree, the fox sat there debating which of his many, many techniques for evading the hounds he should use, he was still doing this when the hounds caught him. One technique done well versus many, guess which wins.

I don't think I've ever been jammed by choice. You train so that your response is instinctive, but a knee-jerk reaction to anything is liable to eventually be misused, it be countered, or in many ways be turned against you. I value training to get the instinctual response, but not the action itself. When you can react, instinctively, using the plethora of what you know, there is no reason to get that jamming. It has never happened to me, so I think the cautionary tale, at best, is just that.

If someone is getting jammed, it might be the case they don't actually know what the technique they are using is for, what it is best against, and in all the fashions. And because they do not know, because they think, they might get stuck. Be confidant... and what technique to employ, and you will be fine.

A standard elbow pivot from muai thai is usually enough to deflect most punches, whereas in close quarters, if I cannot beat their handwork with my own, I'll resort to chambering knee strikes from Chung Do Kwan. Every technique is part of the ultimate equation. You want it to be perfect, and harmonious, without wasted energy or effort.

I don't pick and choose, at least not in the sense implied by that particular wording. I use what works, for me, and do not. There is a place where perhaps I could use it, by why would I implement the wrist work from Wing Chun, when the ox-jaw works well as it is (given I occasionally suffer from carpal tunnel thanks to computer work? I'm just saying at some point 'picking and choosing' isn't out of a party bag, and does rest on strategy.

And honestly, since we're not even discussing the point of this thread, I'd say it should be closed before it delineates and we have more fodder for the horror section.

 

[clfsean]

I don't pick and choose, at least not in the sense implied by that particular wording. I use what works, for me, and do not. There is a place where perhaps I could use it, by why would I implement the wrist work from Wing Chun, when the ox-jaw works well as it is (given I occasionally suffer from carpal tunnel thanks to computer work? I'm just saying at some point 'picking and choosing' isn't out of a party bag, and does rest on strategy.

Please... expound on this "wrist work from Wing Chun". I'm quite interested in hearing this. And you never have answered my previous query about your experience in Southern CMA kicking. If you bring it up, you will be asked. You keep bringing it up. I (and pretty others too) would like to hear your thoughts & experiences with CMA kicking & now also, Wing Chun wrist work.

Also... CTS is not an occasional thing. You have it or you don't. If you do, you know it & you need to set up a date to have it released. If you don't, then you don't. It doesn't come & go. You can cause it to flare up or not flare by use, but it doesn't come & go. It's there or not there.