Calling Somebody's Dojo A McDojo Is Offensive

[Wing Woo Gar]

I've never had anyone challenge me. If they challenged belligerently, I'd have a student call the police, same as I would if they walked into a retail store and did this. If they push it by attacking (the only way I don't have a choice), then it's no longer a challenge - it's an assault, and I'll treat it as such.

Okay fair enough. It isn’t something that happens all the time. Again, I’m not that worried about it. Both times that I saw it get real, it just happened, fast and boom it’s over. Very few words.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I've never had anyone challenge me. If they challenged belligerently, I'd have a student call the police, same as I would if they walked into a retail store and did this. If they push it by attacking (the only way I don't have a choice), then it's no longer a challenge - it's an assault, and I'll treat it as such.

Years ago I had lunch with Chen Zhenglei and part of the discussion was about a man (also from mainland China) in the area we were in that was claiming lineage to his family that he did not have. Chen Zhenglei visited him and told him to stop. Someone asked him why he did not teach him a lesson for making this claim (aka beat him up). Chen said this is America, that gets you to court, in China, it would be different. I know of a situation in China in Yiquan/Dachengquan that got to a "Stop making the claim, publicly apologize, or I will kick your butt" Guy took out an add said he was lying and apologized.

I am pretty sure, in America, you go challenging someone, and start a fight, it will require to be standing in front of a judge soon thereafter.

Yang Jwing Ming told a story about a challenge he got from some guy that came into his school (then in Boston) and challenged him. He told the guy no problem, but please take a seat, we will settle this after my class. The guy sat down to wait. Dr Yang paid little attention to him and went on to teach class, they were working on applications and some qinna. He said he looked a couple times and saw the guy still sitting there, and then he kind of forgot about him. Class ended, he turned to talk with the guy...and the guy was gone..... Dr Yang said he saw the guy on the street several times after that and the guy wold just smile and wave and keep right n walking

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Years ago I had lunch with Chen Zhenglei and part of the discussion was about a man (also from mainland China) in the area we were in that was claiming lineage to his family that he did not have. Chen Zhenglei visited him and told him to stop. Someone asked him why he did not teach him a lesson for making this claim (aka beat him up). Chen said this is America, that gets you to court, in China, it would be different. I know of a situation in China in Yiquan/Dachengquan that got to a "Stop making the claim, publicly apologize, or I will kick your butt" Guy took out an add said he was lying and apologized.

I am pretty sure, in America, you go challenging someone, and start a fight, it will require to be standing in front of a judge soon thereafter.

Yang Jwing Ming told a story about a challenge he got from some guy that came into his school (then in Boston) and challenged him. He told the guy no problem, but please take a seat, we will settle this after my class. The guy sat down to wait. Dr Yang paid little attention to him and went on to teach class, they were working on applications and some qinna. He said he looked a couple times and saw the guy still sitting there, and then he kind of forgot about him. Class ended, he turned to talk with the guy...and the guy was gone..... Dr Yang said he saw the guy on the street several times after that and the guy wold just smile and wave and keep right n walking

That’s a great story! Dr Yang has a school on the hill about an hour south of me in Miranda area. Simo knows him. I would train some with him if he was closer.

 

[Xue Sheng]

That’s a great story! Dr Yang has a school on the hill about an hour south of me in Miranda area. Simo knows him. I would train some with him if he was closer.

I did some qinna and push hands with him, but that was years ago when he and the main YMAA school was still in Boston

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I did some qinna and push hands with him, but that was years ago when he and the main YMAA school was still in Boston

I’m in the redwoods of far north California.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I’m in the redwoods of far north California.

I visited Muir woods several years ago, but live about 3000 miles from there

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I visited Muir woods several years ago, but live about 3000 miles from there

I’m about 250 miles north of there.

 

[Steve]

I’m in the redwoods of far north California.

Used to have a lot of family around Eureka/Arcata. Most have moved either further south, to around San Jose, or left the State entirely. Really beautiful out there in Northern California.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Used to have a lot of family around Eureka/Arcata. Most have moved either further south, to around San Jose, or left the State entirely. Really beautiful out there in Northern California.

Years ago a friend of mine moved to california, he may still be there. When he got there it was cold and raining. He started asking people "Where is California" And telling him all his life he was told California was sunny and warm and this place is wet and cold...where is California, to which no one seemed to have an answer. Then he was on the beach and saw this guy, the only guy on the beach, near a big drainage pipe, and asked him the same question. The guy actually started giving him directions, take this street, turn right, take this street kind of thing. When the guy stopped, looked at him for a second...and then said...."You're in California dude".... my friend later found the guy lived in the drain pipe, but he was the only one that actually gave him an answer.

He stopped asking and got a job in construction, have not seen or heard from him in years

 

[Steve]

Years ago a friend of mine moved to california, he may still be there. When he got there it was cold and raining. He started asking people "Where is California" And telling him all his life he was told California was sunny and warm and this place is wet and cold...where is California, to which no one seemed to have an answer. Then he was on the beach and saw this guy, the only guy on the beach, near a big drainage pipe, and asked him the same question. The guy actually started giving him directions, take this street, turn right, take this street kind of thing. When the guy stopped, looked at him for a second...and then said...."You're in California dude".... my friend later found the guy lived in the drain pipe, but he was the only one that actually gave him an answer.

He stopped asking and got a job in construction, have not seen or heard from him in years

That's a funny story.

 

[PhotonGuy]

What if the dojo in question ticks off every box in the definition of a McDojo? Does it now become offensive to tell the truth? Should we encourage people to continue to work hard towards their 17th belt on the way to black belt mastery? Should we point out the fuchsia camo belt is not really traditional in Korean Shaolin Kung fu?

Well how about if their dojo doesn't tick off every box to qualify it for being a McDojo? Lets say for instance, if people are calling your dojo a McDojo for no other reason that students can sign up and test for rank promotion at their own discretion whenever they're running a test? Im not saying students will always pass, but that they can sign up and test if they want to, which means they might pass or they might fail.

 

[PhotonGuy]

So what? Truth sometimes hurts.
BTW Time and dedication can be invested in MC Dojo too.

But what if they aren't going to a McDojo?

 

[PhotonGuy]

And that some people choose to be offensive. I think some folks throw around terms like "McDojo" to troll. They don't even know what they mean, and don't really care. They just want to get a rise out of someone.

Perhaps you're right. But the problem is when somebody calls your dojo a McDojo just because of one thing they disagree with.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Used to have a lot of family around Eureka/Arcata. Most have moved either further south, to around San Jose, or left the State entirely. Really beautiful out there in Northern California.

Did you ever live around here? Or train here? It’s cool to have someone who knows where this place is. Most people think s.f. Is the border of Oregon.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Much more important is the existence of the McDojo. It is an offense to all schools as a whole and makes it harder and harder for good schools to operate.

If anything I would think it would make it easier for good schools to operate. When students at McDojos lose badly in tournaments to students at good schools, and they will lose badly if they're going to MdDojos, then people will see just how much better the good schools are and go there instead.

 

[PhotonGuy]

I thought that to be a “McDojo,” three qualifications had to be met:
1. Part of a chain
2. Low quality of instruction
3. Awarding of belts to unqualified individuals (too early)

Number 2 and 3 would definitely qualify a dojo as a McDojo but not number 1. I've known some good dojos that are parts of chains and some bad dojos that aren't parts of chains.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Perhaps you're right. But the problem is when somebody calls your dojo a McDojo just because of one thing they disagree with.

No, the problem is when you allow your self-worth to be based on outside opinions.

 

[Steve]

Perhaps you're right. But the problem is when somebody calls your dojo a McDojo just because of one thing they disagree with.

If someone calls you a Wonderful Human Being, but they mean for it to be insulting (sarcastic or snarky), then you will probably be insulted. At least, I wouldn't be surprised if you were, and neither should they. If someone calls you a big jerk, but they mean it as a term of endearment, you will probably not be insulted.

Point is, what is being said matters way less than what is intended. If you say something (even nice things) but mean to be offensive, you probably shouldn't be surprised if the person is offended.

There's also a little bit of an ownership thing here, too. The old thing where someone insults your family member, and they say, "Hey, you call him a jerk all the time. Why are you upset?" "He's my brother. Only I can call him a jerk."

So, there might be a little bit of, "You can't call my school a McDojo. It's my school, and only I can call it a McDojo."

 

[Steve]

Did you ever live around here? Or train here? It’s cool to have someone who knows where this place is. Most people think s.f. Is the border of Oregon.

Nope. I've never lived in California. Spent most of my youth in Louisiana and Texas, and then moved to Seattle as a teenager.

Visited many times, though. As I said, a lot of family in that area at one time. I also have a mystery cousin who is still in that area. I think my Uncle Joe had a fling while he and his wife were separated, but I'll probably never know for sure.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Nope. I've never lived in California. Spent most of my youth in Louisiana and Texas, and then moved to Seattle as a teenager.

Visited many times, though. As I said, a lot of family in that area at one time. I also have a mystery cousin who is still in that area. I think my Uncle Joe had a fling while he and his wife were separated, but I'll probably never know for sure.

Oh just curious. Come visit sometime, bring Xue and Crane with you.