Calling Somebody's Dojo A McDojo Is Offensive

[Hot Lunch]

In any case, I don’t agree that it’s the same as buying some garbage at a drive through that will have its wrapper shucked off and be consumed without a thought about where it came from or it’s nutritional value.

Okay, pick any other business then. It doesn't have to be fast food.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Seems like there are some crossed wires here. Several of you have made it clear that you have no interest in running a business. You have non-commercial clubs where you get to make the rules, and you're comfortable with the possibility that it will result in few to no students. That's great for you guys. But that's not what this thread is about.

The risk (maybe too strong a word) of running a commercially successful/viable school is that you'll be labelled a McDojo... for your business practices, and for possible concessions you might make to standardize your curriculum to make it more profitable.

The analogous concern with clubs like yours is the risk of your non-commercial club becoming a cult. We've seen that happen, and in schools that are specifically non-commercial, where there is a feeling that you're doing it the old school way with pure motives, unsullied by corporate greed or accountability to a student... that can be a really cool environment, or it can be really bad. But that's the analogous conversation suitable for another thread... if you are interested in talking more about the pros and cons of your specific approach to teaching your art.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I don’t have the transactional view you accuse me of, in any case I charge $7.50 per class. I believe that is reasonable.

The only problem with a price that low is that people often associate the cost with the quality. If you set it too low then people will think that what you are teaching isn't good. If you told me that you have iPhone that you will sell for $50 then the first thing that comes to mind is "What's wrong with it?"

I don't think "Wow that's a great deal!" We are conditioned this way. You can always charge more and come down on the price to assist others who cannot afford it, but I wouldn't start too low.

Another way to think of it is to charge enough to put back into providing training for your students. Student doesn't have enough money to purchase gloves or doesn't know where to get them. Take the money that they paid for your class to buy the gloves and have them pay the difference for the gloves if there is any. If the cost of the class covers the gloves, then say. Here are some gloves for your training. "Don't worry. You can have it."

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Seems like there are some crossed wires here. Several of you have made it clear that you have no interest in running a business. You have non-commercial clubs where you get to make the rules, and you're comfortable with the possibility that it will result in few to no students. That's great for you guys. But that's not what this thread is about.

The risk (maybe too strong a word) of running a commercially successful/viable school is that you'll be labelled a McDojo... for your business practices, and for possible concessions you might make to standardize your curriculum to make it more profitable.

The analogous concern with clubs like yours is the risk of your non-commercial club becoming a cult. We've seen that happen, and in schools that are specifically non-commercial, where there is a feeling that you're doing it the old school way with pure motives, unsullied by corporate greed or accountability to a student... that can be a really cool environment, or it can be really bad. But that's the analogous conversation suitable for another thread... if you are interested in talking more about the pros and cons of your specific approach to teaching your art.

I have run businesses. I have between 6-17 students in class at any given time. My students seem to like it, I have several that have been with me for 8 years now. It sounds like you are saying I shouldn’t comment because I do things this way or that. Perhaps you are right about starting another thread.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Actually, it's because when you're coming up with another business to use as reference point, McDonald's is the first and easiest one that comes to mind. Dairy Queen recently made a business decision that I didn't like, so I used that. It's not that deep.

Well I found your choice of comparison unpalatable.

 

[Hot Lunch]

Well I found your choice of comparison unpalatable.

Your problem, not mine.

 

[Dirty Dog]

The only problem with a price that low is that people often associate the cost with the quality.

People can make whatever silly assumptions they like. My price has always been set at $0.00; I have never charged a single penny. But I think students have been satisfied with their training.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Or you're looking for things to be mad about. Nothing I can do about that.

Actually, we don’t have to look for things when you are serving up schlock analogies. What you CAN do is try to consider your choice of words. Just a little advice for when the people at the drive thru get mad at you for not enough smile or service.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Dairy Queen recently got rid of the cherry dipped cone. That was the only thing that I went there for. So now, I won't be returning unless they bring it back. I used that to illustrate the point of a consumer exercising their rights in a free market economy.

But they're somehow taking that to mean Dairy Queen is a joke and that I'm comparing their school to it. And now they expect me to try to talk my way out of that. I'm not interested.

You ordered it, you eat it.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Okay. I think I’m tracking how. On one hand, I still don't know why anyone who runs a non-commercial outfit thinks this thread applies to them at all.

On the other, I think we can now all agree that @PhotonGuy is right; calling (or in this case, indirectly and possibly unintentionally implying) someone's school a McDojo is offensive. Well done, everyone. It only took 778 posts, but we got the job done.

Yup. Comparing a school to McDonald’s in a mcdojo thread is certainly insulting, regardless of the analogous purpose listed.

 

[Hot Lunch]

Actually, we...

Actually, YOU.

don’t have to look for things when you are serving up schlock analogies. What you CAN do is try to consider your choice of words. Just a little advice for when the people at the drive thru get mad at you for not enough smile or service.

Or I can simply say "eggshells be damned," and you can stay mad.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

It's been implied throughout this entire thread that unless a business is non-profit, it must engage in unethical practices and produce low quality products.

I certainly never implied this.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

No. You don't drive a car from a non-profit manufacturer, do you? You don't eat out at non-profit restaurants, do you?

If a business produces low quality products or engage in unethical practices, you and everyone else will move on to a competitor.

Like McDonald’s? Over x billion served says you are incorrect.

 

[Hot Lunch]

Like McDonald’s? Over x billion served says you are incorrect.

Because x billion people either don't believe that to be the case, or not big enough of a deal to switch. Not that hard to figure out.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Actually, YOU.

Or I can simply say "eggshells be damned," and you can stay mad.

Yes you can. That is your right, I support you in that. I may comment on it.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Actually, YOU.

Or I can simply say "eggshells be damned," and you can stay mad.

No it’s we. @Flying Crane seems to share my analysis of your analogies. You can say what you want, we can choose how to react to it. That’s how this goes. It’s not deep or complicated. You chose to serve slop, we called it slop, now you are mad about the slop label. Ironic huh?

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Your problem, not mine.

This was a joke, unpalatable, get it? Those little naps must be refreshing…

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

The only problem with a price that low is that people often associate the cost with the quality. If you set it too low then people will think that what you are teaching isn't good. If you told me that you have iPhone that you will sell for $50 then the first thing that comes to mind is "What's wrong with it?"

I don't think "Wow that's a great deal!" We are conditioned this way. You can always charge more and come down on the price to assist others who cannot afford it, but I wouldn't start too low.

Another way to think of it is to charge enough to put back into providing training for your students. Student doesn't have enough money to purchase gloves or doesn't know where to get them. Take the money that they paid for your class to buy the gloves and have them pay the difference for the gloves if there is any. If the cost of the class covers the gloves, then say. Here are some gloves for your training. "Don't worry. You can have it."

I try to make it as available as possible for people. I believe what you say is true though. It’s a hard choice to make. I live in a rural area with a lot of college students. I honestly just try to keep it about the training and focus on the students that I do have. The ones that stay at it and put the effort.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Because x billion people either don't believe that to be the case, or not big enough of a deal to switch. Not that hard to figure out.

So low quality product, with low quality nutrition, made by an exploitive corporate model is your thing, I get it. No big deal, keep consuming it. You are happy with it, and that is not hard to figure out.

 

[Hot Lunch]

So low quality product, with low quality nutrition, made by an exploitive corporate model is your thing, I get it. No big deal, keep consuming it. You are happy with it, and that is not hard to figure out.

And you somehow managed to turn this into an argument over the quality of the food at McDonald's, and the character of the people who eat it. Once again, people looking for things to be mad about.