Calling Somebody's Dojo A McDojo Is Offensive

[dvcochran]

I think with folks who sit for work, it's necessary for all styles, to varying degrees. I try to remember to leave time for at least a few cool-down stretches, but I don't always notice the passage of time, so it gets missed.

Sedentary work could be a factor, but we live in a very blue-collar town and the large percentage of our adults work outside or in a factory environment. Some are 'stiff as a board', some are naturally more flexible. I cannot say there is a ton of predictability in flexibility. Even age is not a hard predictor, but it is very apparent that the older we get the less value it has in a sustained encounter (sparring & such). This is very much where muscle and strength come into play.
To your point on toughness, there may be more 'hardening' with some of the blue-collar people vs. white-collar folks but that is not a hard predictor either.
For the people who really want to get into it and learn and grow, background may not have a ton to do with it. It is what they want to do/be going forward.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Sedentary work could be a factor, but we live in a very blue-collar town and the large percentage of our adults work outside or in a factory environment. Some are 'stiff as a board', some are naturally more flexible. I cannot say there is a ton of predictability in flexibility. Even age is not a hard predictor, but it is very apparent that the older we get the less value it has in a sustained encounter (sparring & such). This is very much where muscle and strength come into play.
To your point on toughness, there may be more 'hardening' with some of the blue-collar people vs. white-collar folks but that is not a hard predictor either.
For the people who really want to get into it and learn and grow, background may not have a ton to do with it. It is what they want to do/be going forward.

I do think work type is a reasonable partial predictor for toughness, though it's not absolute. You certainly can get some tough folks who work desk jobs, and the rare person without toughness who works, say, construction. But hard physical work both develops toughness and weeds out folks who lack it (people select work that doesn't make them feel awful). If you had to make 100 bets about whether individuals' toughness was abover or below average, you could probably stay on the winning side by using occupation.

I think it's a safe conclusion that physical work toughens the same way, say, sparring does. If all I ever do is tap-sparring, and you do full-contact stuff, you're probably tougher as a result (assuming we started out with similar toughness).

 

[Dirty Dog]

If you insult somebody's instructor they're probably going to take it personally.

Sure, there are lots of people running around loose who need to grow up.

 

[r.d.mcdaniel]

I started studying Kyokushin Karate in 1973. My Sensei was a real tough guy, State level wrestler in High School, semi pro boxer and 3rd. Dan in Kyokushin. We sparred hard every class and minor injuries were very common. The school did not cater to children, it was mostly adults in the class and a few teenagers. There were only about 12-16 people in the class at a time and I remember paying $12.00 a month to start so this was not my Sensei's sole source of income, it was really more of a club.
During my high school years I took a break from Karate to wrestle and try to meet girls. During my 20's I went back to Karate but by then my old Sensei had moved away, I studied under my Sensei's Sensei. He had devoted his life to martial arts, no question about his knowledge or skill. This class had some adults, some were very skilled, and a lot of kids. The adults were held to a high standard but the kids were moved right up in the belts in order to keep them interested ( and paying? )
At some point I began teaching under contract with my Sensei at a military base and then when my second child was born I began teaching out of my home while staying connected to the school system.
I took my class to the rankings at my Sensei's school. I was often asked to kind of run the rankings under the direction of Sensei. I had a real problem with giving junior black belts to kids that I believed were far from worthy of receiving them and I said so many times and my complaints were always ignored.
Looking back now, decades later it has occured to me that the school model that I started with would likely never make a successful business, it's difficult to find enough adults that are willing to go to class and constantly deal with the bumps, bruises and constant soreness. While I still don't believe in giving kids a higher rank just to keep them coming to class, I understand that commercial Dojo's are first and foremost a business that need to turn a profit.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

But think of the alternative - "Come on in. You won't be able to do it well for many months, during which time you will be sweaty, sore, out of your comfort zone, confused, feeling uncoordinated and constantly corrected. And, oh yeah, there is a good chance you'll get a black eye, split lip, jammed finger, bruised ribs and knots on your shins, and count on getting a good kick to the nuts at least once." All this for just $95 per month? SIGN ME UP!

You charge 95.00? I give you all that stuff for 7.50 per class. I run a 30 minute warmup that is fast hard excercise. Muscle changing and marrow washing classics plus pushups and all that. Then we do drills, then the enpair ups or forms.I teach it the way I was taught. I hear what you are all saying, but I don’t do it that way. If they want to train with me then they are going to give it what they have to give. I’m willing to help each person get there but I don’t lower standards. It may take one person years, and someone else decades. That has nothing to do with process. When we are little they tell us we can be anything, this is as far from the truth as Santa Claus. I’m ready for the recriminations about how I’m mean and all that. I offer no apologies. I didnt create the system, I am the result of the training. It’s not for everyone. I am willing to give anyone my best, that’s what I offer.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I do think work type is a reasonable partial predictor for toughness, though it's not absolute. You certainly can get some tough folks who work desk jobs, and the rare person without toughness who works, say, construction. But hard physical work both develops toughness and weeds out folks who lack it (people select work that doesn't make them feel awful). If you had to make 100 bets about whether individuals' toughness was abover or below average, you could probably stay on the winning side by using occupation.

I think it's a safe conclusion that physical work toughens the same way, say, sparring does. If all I ever do is tap-sparring, and you do full-contact stuff, you're probably tougher as a result (assuming we started out with similar toughness).

I agree. I also see what I refer to as occupational posture. Often, it is easy to tell what type of work people do based on posture and how they move. Many of the very physical jobs don’t lend themselves to flexibility in motion. Some folks need extra help to get mobility and range of motion adequate for some parts of training.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

You charge 95.00? I give you all that stuff for 7.50 per class. I run a 30 minute warmup that is fast hard excercise. Muscle changing and marrow washing classics plus pushups and all that. Then we do drills, then the enpair ups or forms.I teach it the way I was taught. I hear what you are all saying, but I don’t do it that way. If they want to train with me then they are going to give it what they have to give. I’m willing to help each person get there but I don’t lower standards. It may take one person years, and someone else decades. That has nothing to do with process. When we are little they tell us we can be anything, this is as far from the truth as Santa Claus. I’m ready for the recriminations about how I’m mean and all that. I offer no apologies. I didnt create the system, I am the result of the training. It’s not for everyone. I am willing to give anyone my best, that’s what I offer.

I should have mentioned we don’t let people spar at first and we don’t ask people to do anything they don’t want to do. I personally believe that the calisthenics that we do are a very important part of the system. I also believe that starting every training session this way prevents injury during training as well as reinforcing the foundational basics of the system. I am all for variety and I find it interesting the way most folks do it so much differently. Each system has its own valid way, this is just mine.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Sure, there are lots of people running around loose who need to grow up.

The guy doing the insult or the guy taking it personally?

 

[bill miller]

The guy doing the insult or the guy taking it personally?

I would think, possibly both.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I would think, possibly both.

That’s the way I see it too. I just like poking the bear sometimes.

 

[Dirty Dog]

The guy doing the insult or the guy taking it personally?

Generally, both.

 

[bill miller]

That’s the way I see it too. I just like poking the bear sometimes.

I poked a bobcat once......just once!

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I poked a bobcat once......just once!

Ouch! Care to elaborate on that?

 

[bill miller]

Ouch! Care to elaborate on that?

Sure. I was down in the wolf river bottoms doing some plinking when we came across what I thought was a dead bobcat. As my .22 was empty, I poke critter with the muzzle and it sprung straight up and let out a yell. I fell over backwards in to what turned out to be poison ivy, the cat posture just for a second, then jumped in to the brush! I learned a valuable life lesson: Never poke a bobcat with an empty weapon!!!!

 

[dvcochran]

Sure. I was down in the wolf river bottoms doing some plinking when we came across what I thought was a dead bobcat. As my .22 was empty, I poke critter with the muzzle and it sprung straight up and let out a yell. I fell over backwards in to what turned out to be poison ivy, the cat posture just for a second, then jumped in to the brush! I learned a valuable life lesson: Never poke a bobcat with an empty weapon!!!!

Growing up we had serious coyote and varmint problems. You could make good money from some of the pelts. Me and my older brother really got into trapping back then. You learned really quick to make certain they were dead before getting too close and having a loaded long arm was 101. Badger pelts brought the best money, but they are resilient, feisty animals, and were almost always still alive in the trap. Wicked sharp teeth. Ironically, surprisingly easy to knockout.
We had/have several mountain lions in our area. Have had signs of a catch before but our traps were just not strong enough to hold an animal of that size.

 

[Flying Crane]

Sure. I was down in the wolf river bottoms doing some plinking when we came across what I thought was a dead bobcat. As my .22 was empty, I poke critter with the muzzle and it sprung straight up and let out a yell. I fell over backwards in to what turned out to be poison ivy, the cat posture just for a second, then jumped in to the brush! I learned a valuable life lesson: Never poke a bobcat with an empty weapon!!!!

A better lesson might be: always know where the poison Ivy is.

 

[dvcochran]

A better lesson might be: always know where the poison Ivy is.

It is everywhere here. I am fortunate not to be allergic.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Growing up we had serious coyote and varmint problems. You could make good money from some of the pelts. Me and my older brother really got into trapping back then. You learned really quick to make certain they were dead before getting too close and having a loaded long arm was 101. Badger pelts brought the best money, but they are resilient, feisty animals, and were almost always still alive in the trap. Wicked sharp teeth. Ironically, surprisingly easy to knockout.
We had/have several mountain lions in our area. Have had signs of a catch before but our traps were just not strong enough to hold an animal of that size.

I grew up hunting with my granddad. I became an exotic animal vet tech and then zookeeper before going into human medicine. I dont hunt but I do shoot a lot. I bottle raised a cougar that was abandoned by its mother. His name was Navajo and he was gentle and sweet like a house cat. I also took care of bobcats and badgers (baby) and (broccoli). I never poked baby but I did walk her on a leash to go kill rats in the compound. I also knew the mountain lion named pride that was in the old lincoln Mercury cougar commercials. He was very special.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

A better lesson might be: always know where the poison Ivy is.

Nope, never ever shoot yourself dry.

 

[bill miller]

I also knew the mountain lion named pride that was in the old lincoln Mercury cougar commercials. He was very special.

MGM studios lion mascot, Leo, was from the Memphis zoo. I'm not sure when it was filmed, but I know it was way before my time. And I am old!!