Brotherhood and Camaraderie In The Arts

[MJS]

Do you feel that its lacking? Do you feel that its important? Is it possible to have both mixed in with a learning environment?

Recently, while surfing the web, I came across a discussion on another forum. Basically it seemed to me, that the above mentioned things were frowned upon and should be kept seperate. Now, IMHO, I don't think that attending a seminar and having 99% of it consist of chatting with friends, and acting like its a noon time tea session, but on the other hand, I feel that you can still be social and train hard. I've been to a number of seminars and camps. Sure it was good to see old friends as well as make new ones, but once the session began it was all business! There were no games...everyone was there to learn!

So, what are your thoughts on this?

Mike


(I posted this in the Kenpo section as well, but wanted to post it here to get feedback from those that do not post in the Kenpo section. )

 

[JBrainard]

We have a lot of brotherhood and camraderie in our school. I would argue that is shouldn't be completely seperate from training. When class starts, you get in line and you train. But you also want to have fun (at least I do). And it is more fun if you are training with friends rather than "student x who I don't really know." Plus, the "brotherhood" atmosphere makes you feel more welcome and at peace, especially when your a newb like me

 

[stickarts]

I have noticed that it often flows more or less down from the top.
The attitude of the one in charge flows down to the senior students which flows down to their students. Not perfectly, but generally speaking.

 

[stone_dragone]

I have seen this as well. When I was attending tournaments regularly, the competitors who had instructors that stressed their superiority and the "us vs them" attititude were much less plesant to be around (and much more satisfying to beat, btw).

 

[SFC JeffJ]

Great thread!

I think camaraderie is very important. One reason would be it will help keep students coming to your classes. I've know quite a few people where that has become there main reason for continuing their training.

 

[Drac]

Iattended my first Combat Hapkido seminar and didn't know a soul..We trained hard but still found time to form frinedships..Now when I return to these yearly seminars (especially the one in Denver CO) I look forward to seeing my friends and training with them...There SOULD be a brotherhood if you're in the MA, we share something that outsiders could never understand..My 2 cents...

 

[Dave Leverich]

I do think it is prevalent in the true artists. When I look at a school level, there are some that simply show up, do class, go home. Then there are those that form friendships and are actually 'part' of the class. The latter ones are the ones that will continue on after black belt (or make it _to_ black belt etc), while the ones that simply 'show up' usually aren't the ones who are committed to the art.

On a larger level, I find it everywhere, but I'm also in the ATA, it's more closely tied together than some orgs. In my first org (WTA), all I knew of was the Instructor, and Such and such master. Perhaps that instructor simply wasn't as outgoing, perhaps it was an indication of a more 'separate' structure where the schools were all more autonomous, I couldn't say.

Like Drac stated though, often what motivates us to attend events, is seeing our friends that we've made there. It's not the only motivator, but it's definitely a factor. When I go to a national event, I know that I'll run into quite a few friends and that is incentive for me to attend. Regional even, it's like a family reunion with your cousins from other cities.

Even beyond organizations and styles... in high school all of us martial artists banded together, even cross-towns. You had no question in your mind that if you needed them, Chris from Perry's would be there, or Sokwon from Shin's etc. We all were friends, simply by the fact that we did the same things.

 

[Kacey]

I didn't realize this was up in Kenpo and GMAT - so here's what I said in Kenpo, since that's the one I saw first:

I think that there needs to be some sense of camaraderie, because I think it helps improve learning. Sure, you learn a lot during a good, hard work out - but without the camaraderie, you're beating on each other instead of helping each other learn - not that you can't do both, but there's a big difference, IMHO, between beating the crap out of someone, and that's it, and taking the time and effort (which usually only happens when there's some kind of fellow-feeling) to tell the other person what they're doing wrong and right, so the other person can improve, instead of leaving discouraged because they got beaten up, or lost a pattern competition, or couldn't make a throw work, or whatever, and don't know why. Competition is a great learning experience - but so is coaching/instructing, both formally and informally - and it's that informal coaching/instructing that comes from the camaraderie.

 

[Shaderon]

Kacey has hit on a very good point here, I'll just say something to expand it though. When you are doing something that needs a lot of concentration and discipline you need to let off steam at some point. If you don't do it by the camaraderie, then it'll go the other way and tempers will flare.

Not only is the sense of family and brotherhood important to weld us all together and make us more eager to learn by being involved in a similar pursuit, but it's important to stop us beating the **** out of each other.

Personally I've found the brotherhood very very keen amongst the practitioners of any MA, once we identify each other, we have something in common and get on much better. In the gym where we learn, there is a Karate class, the instructor is the European representative for Japan for that particular branch of Karate. One we started talking we couldn't stop and now we carry on as if we are classmates, people sometimes assume I do Karate because they see me talking with Paul, he even gives me pointers in things like pre-grading nerves.

 

[IWishToLearn]

Yup. We have quite a bit of intermingling and communication at my school. I believe it encourages the new people to be able to open up and really feel welcome to participate in the class. Too much of the "shut up and train" in my book causes the newer people to be shoeboxed into the thinking methodology that they should shut up, work hard, and figure things out eventually through enough practice. I'd rather have the students be very communicative and encouraged to ask as many questions as possible to speed up the learning process.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Brotherhood and camaraderie are very important parts of a good Training Hall. If camaraderie is good then the school whether large or small will be dynamic and everyone will enjoy their training. (great thread)

 

[Hawke]

Imagine a village in the south Pacific.

The warriors at the village train and help each other. The hits are honest and there will be some bruises. The warriors help develop each others skill. There is no king of the mountain attitude. They all share in the defense of their village, so if their village is attack they can stand and defend each others brothers, sisters, mom, and dad. They are a family.

If we are living on this same island and we're training hard we would be careful not to damage each other and our partners. So when the attack comes we are ready to defend. I defend your family and you defend mine.

Brotherhood and camaraderie are important to help develop your martial skills and spirit. Who wants to keep coming to class if your classmates want to beat you up and laugh at your face? Slaps on the back, sincere smiles, and a sense of belongingness make a wonderful atmosphere to learn and train. We can share stories about our training with other MAs and they will totally understand......like the instructor that can't keep count when doing push ups, for some reason we are always stuck on the same number.

Cheers

 

[Langenschwert]

Camraderie is crucial, IMO. In WMA, the community as a whole generally makes this the rule rather than the exception. The camraderie usually extends to those outside the hall People generally gravitate to WMA because they find the experience a little more friendly than they have come to expect in some Asian arts, and this seems to have had a lasting influence in WMA "culture". It certainly is less formal. Those halls (of whatever art) that have a sense of camraderie are more likely to retain students, and have students that are more receptive to instruction.

Best regards,

-Mark

 

[Steel Tiger]

Brotherhood and camaraderie are very important parts of a good Training Hall. If camaraderie is good then the school whether large or small will be dynamic and everyone will enjoy their training. (great thread)

Like Brian I think that brotherhood and camaraderie are important to good learning. I can, however, see how it might drop off in large classes. It is well known from the school environment that teaching more than about 20 people makes it very difficult to give the same attention to everyone. Large classes may have a degree of impersonalness simply because they are large, not through anything the teacher or seniors are doing. As a result new students might get the impression that there is no camaraderie when really there is.

 

[MJS]

We have a lot of brotherhood and camraderie in our school. I would argue that is shouldn't be completely seperate from training. When class starts, you get in line and you train. But you also want to have fun (at least I do). And it is more fun if you are training with friends rather than "student x who I don't really know." Plus, the "brotherhood" atmosphere makes you feel more welcome and at peace, especially when your a newb like me

Good points and I agree! Most people enjoy their training time, and its certainly a big plus if the person they're working with has a positive attitude!

Mike

 

[MJS]

Everyone gave some great feedback!! Thanks!:ultracool

IMHO, if the atmosphere contains the things I mentioned in my opening post, the overall training experience will be much more enjoyable. Like I said, I'm sure that if people went with the sole intention of just training, making friends, socializing, etc., would be an end result, but when everyone is already showing that brotherhood, it just makes the time that much more enjoyable.

Mike

 

[stickarts]

For me the brotherhood is an aspect of it just as important as the other elements of it. It has been like that for me since the first day I have trained and it is a key element here at our school among the students and instructors.