Boy dies from headlock. Are you prepared?

[Hanzou]

[video=youtube_share;OfRCh_xth6Q]http://youtu.be/OfRCh_xth6Q[/video]

Warning, video is a bit disturbing....

One of the better Gracie Breakdowns honestly. I couldn't find the original clip. Anyway, the cool thing about this vid is that it shows the bjj response to the headlock, which I think are very good. The headlock is a very common and potentially fatal move that is simple to perform for even the untrained.

What is your style's response to this potentially deadly tactic?

 

[elder999]

Warning, video is a bit disturbing....

Let me get this straight......a headlock is...potentially lethal?

What is your style's response to this potentially deadly tactic?

A "headlock" is a "killing technique????"

:lfao:

What is your style's response to this potentially deadly tactic?

Pretty much exactly the same things.....of course, BJJ is mostly judo.....

 

[drop bear]

Let me get this straight......a headlock is...potentially lethal?



A "headlock" is a "killing technique????"

:lfao:



Pretty much exactly the same things.....of course, BJJ is mostly judo.....

Um yes. It is lethal.

 

[drop bear]

I do like the standing nose grind to the guillotine.

 

[elder999]

Um yes. It is lethal.

You did get that that was sarcasm, right-that I was being facetious? That I was ridiculing this post from someone who has previously stated (time and again) that the "fact" that "lethal techniques" have been "removed" from BJJ/Judo/FITB, makes them "better" for self-defense?
:lfao:

Oh, and I love the way he's now "flown two flags" for his avatar, Dracolino and now Renzo...don't know what that means....creonte? :lfao:
Though, in all seriousness, Renzo Gracie and Vinicius "Dracolino" Magalhaes are lifelong friends,and training partners, as far as I know, so I'm just making fun........

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Before we can talk about the "head lock" counter, we should talk about the correct way to execute a "head lock" first.

In Chinese wrestling, the "head lock" is performed "if and only if" you have a full control on one of your opponent's arms. Only when you are at the moment to squeeze your opponent's out, you can then let go that arm control and only concentrate on your "squeeze". When that happen, you and your opponent are either on the ground, or in stand up but your opponent's structure is crashed and cannot perform any counter on you.

Since you have used one arm to control your opponent's head, use another arm to control his leading arm, his back arm will be free. That should be the only free arm that you will allow your opponent to have. If you let your opponent to have 2 free arms, that will be your fault.

In this picture, you use your

- left arm to control your opponent's head,
- right hand to control his left elbow,
- right shoulder to control his right forearm.

It's a head lock plus a 2 points control on his left arm.

In this clip, you use your

- right arm to control your opponent's head,
- left hand to control his right elbow,
- left shoulder to control his right forearm,
- right hand to control his right upper arm.

It's a head lock plus a 3 points control on your opponent's leading arm.

As far as the "head lock" counter, you can almost write a book on it.

 

[Hanzou]

You did get that that was sarcasm, right-that I was being facetious? That I was ridiculing this post from someone who has previously stated (time and again) that the "fact" that "lethal techniques" have been "removed" from BJJ/Judo/FITB, makes them "better" for self-defense?
:lfao:

I wasn't talking about Bjj or Judo techniques. I was talking about methods to counter the headlock, since its such a common hold in general.

Talk about holding a grudge.....

Oh, and I love the way he's now "flown two flags" for his avatar, Dracolino and now Renzo...don't know what that means....creonte? :lfao:
Though, in all seriousness, Renzo Gracie and Vinicius "Dracolino" Magalhaes are lifelong friends,and training partners, as far as I know, so I'm just making fun........

I'm actually part of neither organization. I just like their logos.

 

[elder999]

I wasn't talking about Bjj or Judo techniques. I was talking about methods to counter the headlock, since its such a common hold in general.

You're saying, then, that a "common hold" can kill? That a "lethal technique" might not be something special, left out of the repertoire of what are perceived as more "sports oriented" martial arts?

Interesting. :lfao:

BTW, judo and Miyama ryu jujutsu are my primary styles-though I'm a karateka, and also practice a number of other martial arts....you did ask:

What is your style's response to this potentially deadly tactic?

And I answered.

ITalk about holding a grudge.....

I bear no grudge. I only ridicule ignorance masquerading as seasoned wisdom, and hypocrisy wherever I find them.

Don't get me wrong. I bear grudges-it's a flaw, and one day or another it'll get me in trouble again.

You would not believe the extent to which I've gone to satisfy a grudge in the past.....Not this time, though....

Ignorance. Hypocrisy. These things I might have a grudge against-but one that only merits shining the light of ridicule upon them.....

Tell us more about the "potentially lethal headlock," oh two-flag flying wiseman....

I'm actually part of neither organization. I just like their logos.

Yeah....I was never on JEOPARDY! I just like that program.....(actually, I haven't watched an entire game of JEOPARDY since Nov. of 2005 for some reason....:lfao

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I was talking about methods to counter the headlock,...

Assume you have only 1 free arm left (again, if you have 2 free arms, it will be your opponent's fault). Also assume your opponent's back is touching on your chest.

You can:

1. lift your opponent up in the air,
2. drag him backward down to the ground,
3. push him forward down to the ground,
4. spin him down to the ground,
5. use your free right hand to push his left head locking arm forward while pull your head backward (if his head lock is not very strong),
6. use right under hook to counter his left head lock,
7. use your right free arm to push back on his fore head,
8. use your right leg to "hook" on his right upper legs,
9. use your right foot to "trap" on his right lower legs,
10. ...

When your opponent applies "head lock", if he is facing to you and doesn't give his back to you, it will be hard to counter him.

 

[Hanzou]

Assume you have only 1 free arm left (again, if you have 2 free arms, it will be your opponent's fault). You can:

1. lift your opponent up in the air,
2. drag him backward down to the ground,
3. push him forward down to the ground,
4. spin him down to the ground,
5. use your free hand to push his head locking arm forward while pull your head backward (if his head lock is not very strong),
6. use under hook to counter his head lock,
7. use your free arm to push back on his fore head,
8. use your leg to "hook" on one of his upper legs,
9. use your foot to "trap" on one of his lower legs,
10. ...

If your structure has been crashed, there will be no counters.

Quick question KFW (and Drop Bear); Do you think a thigh pinch can stop a headlock?

There's nothing like that in Bjj. I was wondering if either of you had run across such a counter, and if it worked.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Do you think a thigh pinch can stop a headlock?

If you have a full control on your opponent's leading arm, his leading arm won't be able to pinch on your thigh. His back hand also won't be able to reach to your thigh either.

If you don't have full control on your opponent's leading arm, he can use that free hand to pinch on your thigh (behind your knee joint), but if you have a strong "head lock", you can generate more pain on his skull than he can generate some small pain on your thigh.

When you have detected that your opponent's free arm is trying to pinch on your thigh, you can slide yourself forward and drag him to the ground. Your "head lock" will be very powerful when his chest is touching on the ground but his head is still under your lock.

This clip shows a correct way to do a "head lock". Please look at that "full leading arm control" at 1.06 - 1.29. His opponent's leading right arm is not going anywhere. Even after you have taken your opponent down to the ground, you still won't release that "arm control".

 

[drop bear]

Before we can talk about the "head lock" counter, we should talk about the correct way to execute a "head lock" first.

In Chinese wrestling, the "head lock" is performed "if and only if" you have a full control on one of your opponent's arms. Only when you are at the moment to squeeze your opponent's out, you can then let go that arm control and only concentrate on your "squeeze". When that happen, you and your opponent are either on the ground, or in stand up but your opponent's structure is crashed and cannot perform any counter on you.

Since you have used one arm to control your opponent's head, use another arm to control his leading arm, his back arm will be free. That should be the only free arm that you will allow your opponent to have. If you let your opponent to have 2 free arms, that will be your fault.

In this picture, you use your

- left arm to control your opponent's head,
- right hand to control his left elbow,
- right shoulder to control his right forearm.

It's a head lock plus a 2 points control on his left arm.

In this clip, you use your

- right arm to control your opponent's head,
- left hand to control his right elbow,
- left shoulder to control his right forearm,
- right hand to control his right upper arm.

It's a head lock plus a 3 points control on your opponent's leading arm.

As far as the "head lock" counter, you can almost write a book on it.

You don't necessarily need the arm. You can use movement or momentum. Take the guy to the ground and bulldog choke them.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dUghLQe12cE

 

[drop bear]

Quick question KFW (and Drop Bear); Do you think a thigh pinch can stop a headlock?

There's nothing like that in Bjj. I was wondering if either of you had run across such a counter, and if it worked.

Yes as a force continuum method. So if somone is punching my head in while trying to drag me to the ground no. And as an alternative I would squirrel grip them. And you can squirrel grip them and do the jits rolly Polly defence.

But say someone is just doing it to be a duchebag. Then either the Thigh pinch or the camel bite works fine.

It is a posture game. So with most headlocks yo have to be on top. Or find a way to straiten your back. So even dropping to a knee should work. Then a single leg or high crotch.

With the roly Polly if the stuff the throw like NY sacrifice throw you could wind up on your back. Which is undesirable.

Having said that I have only thrown that roly Polly on noobs so I don't know the risk againstna guy who is going to scramble.

 

[drop bear]

You did get that that was sarcasm, right-that I was being facetious? That I was ridiculing this post from someone who has previously stated (time and again) that the "fact" that "lethal techniques" have been "removed" from BJJ/Judo/FITB, makes them "better" for self-defense?
:lfao:

Oh, and I love the way he's now "flown two flags" for his avatar, Dracolino and now Renzo...don't know what that means....creonte? :lfao:
Though, in all seriousness, Renzo Gracie and Vinicius "Dracolino" Magalhaes are lifelong friends,and training partners, as far as I know, so I'm just making fun........

The lethality of the move has been removed by tapping and not hanging on after your oponant has passed out allowing it to be trained with resistance.

Safeish in the gym. Lethal on the street. Best of both worlds.

Making it better for self defence.

 

[Touch Of Death]

A good way to get around the lethality of the headlock is to lock on the their face. It hurts, though.

 

[elder999]

The lethality of the move has been removed by tapping and not hanging on after your oponant has passed out allowing it to be trained with resistance.

Safeish in the gym. Lethal on the street. Best of both worlds.

Making it better for self defence.

Ya know what a safety engineer calls that?

An "administrative control."

It's the lowest form of hazard mitigation in the safety hierarchy.

See, in order to mitigate a hazard, the first level is to eliminate it: make it go away: lower that platform so the work is done at ground level.

The second, is to resolve it through engineering: put in a guard railing, so the people doing the work can't fall.

The third is to resolve it through PPE-personnel protective equipment-make people wear a fall-arresting harness on that platform.

The last is the "administrative control": tell everybody, don't fall off that platform.':lfao:

Judo and BJJ "rules" are an "administrative control," though an old and effective one. I mean, after all, does anyone think that samurai practicing in the service of a daimyo regularly choked each other to death during practice-even though they were learning those techniques to use them lethally?

:lfao: :lfao: :lfao:

The lethality hasn't been "removed." It's just agreed that "we're not gonna do that."

 

[RTKDCMB]

Quick question KFW (and Drop Bear); Do you think a thigh pinch can stop a headlock?

There's nothing like that in Bjj. I was wondering if either of you had run across such a counter, and if it worked.

If someone is mucking around with you at a party and you don't really want to hurt them, a thigh pinch might make them let go, it is fairly painful. Against a determine attacker trying to do you harm, not so much.

 

[Touch Of Death]

If someone is mucking around with you at a party and you don't really want to hurt them, a thigh pinch might make them let go, it is fairly painful. Against a determine attacker trying to do you harm, not so much.

You owe it to yourself to try, but not as a hail Mary, but just how you roll. Grab some flesh, just because you have been working on your grip.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

A good way to get around the lethality of the headlock is to lock on the their face. It hurts, though.

There are 3 best places for head lock,

1. temple area,
2. jaw area, and
3. neck area.

IMO, 1 is better than 2, and 2 is better than 3.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Anyway, the cool thing about this vid is that it shows the bjj response to the headlock, which I think are very good. The headlock is a very common and potentially fatal move that is simple to perform for even the untrained.

What is your style's response to this potentially deadly tactic?

There are many but here are a few of the common ones:

1) First, don't wait until the attacker grabs you, as soon as you see the arm go over your head, slip out the back, grab the arm on the way through and apply a hammer lock and then a strike such as a knee, groin kick or downward elbow.

2) Reach over with your closer arm up their back and around to his face, slip your finger under his nose and the other hand on his hip and circle them around into a guillotine with the small of your wrist into his throat. Take a couple of steps back to keep him off balance and then knee and downward elbow.

3) Use your close arm to grad the back of his shirt or hair and simultaneously pull back and knee the back of his leg to take him down and then finish him with a downward strike.

There are also additional things you can do such as a foot stomp,forearm to the groin from behind, punch to the groin from the front.