Black History Month is Ridiculous?

[sgtmac_46]

how can they do that with no resources man?
come on, be a little realistic man
look at you, do you hear yourself "only black man"
as if "black man" isnt a part of america
u make them sound like they live in a different country!
that's what im talking about man
if this mentalityy is gone that would be the best apology dude

NO RESOURCES?! Every man is responsible for himself, period. That you think the insinuation that a man should make his living with his own will is RACIST, then that explains a lot about YOUR mentality.

What's more, MY ancestors came to America with the clothes on their back. The idiotic NOTION that you have to HAVE resources to MAKE resources, only encourages a victim mentality.

Nobody said the black man wasn't part of America, many black americans have BUILT prosperity with their own two hands. Those that haven't, however, are mired in excuses and victimhood that you propose to maintain. You think you are doing someone a favor, but it is YOU who are helping to foster their helplessness. You should apologize.

You propose to denigrate the achievements of successful black americans, by claiming that they are no better than those that REFUSE to work. In your mind, the only black americans that exist, exist only in inner-city squalor, and that is a dangerous, passive aggressive form of racism, predicated on the belief that it is NECESSARY for black america that YOU help them. You, sir, are exhibiting the racist attitude in this discussion. It is a racism built on a desire to believe that some people are hopeless without YOUR help.

 

[mantis]

NO RESOURCES?! Every man is responsible for himself, period.

What's more, MY ancestors came to America with the clothes on their back. The idiotic NOTION that you have to HAVE resources to MAKE resources, only encourages a victim mentality.

why do we pay taxes if EVERY MAN IS RESPONSIBLE FOR HIMSELF
that's just ridiculous sir, with all due respect!
yeah, every man is responsible for himself to get away from a hurricane, but wait let's evacuate the rich white and for black "MANAGE YOURSELF"!

please elaborate on your second argument. the way it looks right now makes it unworthy of commenting on

 

[mantis]

u propose that we should keep blacks in ghettoes
make drugs and alcohol easy to access
give them no education
give them nothing
and then expect them to survive
and if they cant then they are just savage thugs that couldnt make it in the civilized world!!!

 

[sgtmac_46]

why do we pay taxes if EVERY MAN IS RESPONSIBLE FOR HIMSELF
that's just ridiculous sir, with all due respect!
yeah, every man is responsible for himself to get away from a hurricane, but wait let's evacuate the rich white and for black "MANAGE YOURSELF"!

please elaborate on your second argument. the way it looks right now makes it unworthy of commenting on

The reason we began paying taxes is to build roads and bridges, for the common use of all. The entitlement mentality is a recent development in American history.

What's more, that you see the difference between black and white is very clear. Me, I prefer to judge individuals. If a man is lazy, he is a lazy man, black or white. If he is successful, he is not a successful black man, but a successful man.

Again, passive aggressive racism serves no purpose.

 

[sgtmac_46]

u propose that we should keep blacks in ghettoes
make drugs and alcohol easy to access
give them no education
give them nothing
and then expect them to survive
and if they cant then they are just savage thugs that couldnt make it in the civilized world!!!

Really? Where did I say that?

In fact, you are suggesting that all blacks are KEPT in ghettoes, which itself is a form of stereotyping. There are MANY successful men and women who happen to black. In America the idea that black americans are 'kept down' is nothing but the talking points of a political agenda.

The most powerful force that keeps MANY Americans, black and white, from participating is their own cultural beliefs. Black americans stuck in inner-city poverty have a self-perpetuating belief that EDUCATION, for example, is 'acting white'. It is those beliefs, rather than things enforced upon that particular group of african americans, that is most damaging. It is also something internal, for which I have no power to alter.

I think men like Bill Cosby (who got criticized as an 'uncle tom' for pointing it out) and Morgan Freeman illustrate this very well. The inner city african american community has embraced an anti-intellectual, self-destructive position on participation in American society, a position that you are helping to reinforce.

 

[mantis]

The reason we began paying taxes is to build roads and bridges, for the common use of all. The entitlement mentality is a recent development in American history.

What's more, that you see the difference between black and white is very clear. Me, I prefer to judge individuals. If a man is lazy, he is a lazy man, black or white. If he is successful, he is not a successful black man, but a successful man.

Again, passive aggressive racism serves no purpose.

yes, but why deprive the blacks from the educational benefit of taxes and give it to others?!

so whites are hard working but blacks arent and this is how they ended up in ghettoes!

 

[mantis]

Really? Where did I say that?

In fact, you are suggesting that all blacks are KEPT in ghettoes, which itself is a form of stereotyping. There are MANY successful men and women who happen to black. In America the idea that black americans are 'kept down' is nothing but the talking points of a political agenda.

The most powerful force that keeps MANY Americans, black and white, from participating is their own cultural beliefs. Black americans stuck in inner-city poverty have a self-perpetuating belief that EDUCATION, for example, is 'acting white'. It is those beliefs, rather than things enforced upon that particular group of african americans, that is most damaging. It is also something internal, for which I have no power to alter.

by saying they shouldnt be given resources and they have to do it on their own and be responsible for themselves.
and yes the vast majority of blacks are kept in ghettoes OF SOME KIND.

 

[Don Roley]

okay
let me ask this then
what do you think should be done regarding segregated communities?
ie indians, blacks, asians, and hispanics?
or a better question is do you think it is necessary to get rid of racism or not, and if yes then how, and if not then why?

To get rid of racism, we need to stop looking and treating people by the color of their skin. And to deal with segregated communities, we should not do anything that we would not do for any person as an individual.

but then what's this mentality
an ex-gangster is jailed for 20+ years
and then punished again by being executed
and that's considered fair

I know the recent case you are talking about, but are you trying to say that is racist???? The man killed more than one person. I agree he should not have spent so long in prison. He should have been fried much earlier. But any killer that fights execution is on death row for decades. The only short case I can think of is Timothy McVeigh because he did not fight his execution.

why do we pay taxes if EVERY MAN IS RESPONSIBLE FOR HIMSELF
that's just ridiculous sir, with all due respect!
yeah, every man is responsible for himself to get away from a hurricane, but wait let's evacuate the rich white and for black "MANAGE YOURSELF"!

Now you are being argumentative and showing the viewpoint of those that will always see racisim.

First of all, we are responsible for our own improvement. The goverment was established to build up things like the police and courts so that we could seek our form of happiness without interference. We defend the borders from invasion, and rescue people from natural disastors That is a long way of saying that everyone is responsible for everyone else.

Second, your comments about Katrina are off the mark. I have heard a lot of accusations, but there has not been anything to back the idea of racist handling by the goverment. But of course, some people will always see a racist problem.

 

[sgtmac_46]

yes, but why deprive the blacks from the educational benefit of taxes and give it to others?!

so whites are hard working but blacks arent and this is how they ended up in ghettoes!

Nobody is DEPRIVING black americans of educational benefits...but black americans. It is a long understood problem that many inner-city black americans have a culture held belief that GETTING an education is 'acting white' and, therefore, believe that it's not something they should do. How do you fight that kind of belief from outside? You can't.

What's more, my friend, nobody said ALL whites are hardworking. Many whites live in ghettoes too. More whites live in poverty, than blacks. Most of them for the same reasons. Again, you see race, I see individuals. What is the definition of 'racist' again?

What's more, you are obviously ignorant of WHY many black communities are poor. The answer will likely surprise you. High levels of teenage pregnancy, FAR MORE than racism, has been an on going cycle for years, has largely contributed to this problem.

Black communities survived slavery pretty much intact. In fact, in the years leading up to the 1960, despite racism, black communities were thriving in the US, with many blacks, even though working in low wage jobs, providing support for their families.

During the 1960's and 1970's, however, black communities took a drastic turn. The culture of the inner-cities began to become what you see today, with well over 50% of those born, born to poor, single teenage mothers.


It is clear that the LARGEST factor driving poverty in black america, is teenage single-parents. A single mother, ESPECIALLY a teenage single mother, is not able to provide the care, support and guidance necessary to provide opportunities for their children. What's more, add other cultural factors, and the odd's are stacked against those children, and their children, and their children, so long as the cycle continues.

 

[Don Roley]

by saying they shouldnt be given resources and they have to do it on their own and be responsible for themselves.

So it sounds like you are advocatingthe opposite. Give African Americans a load of cash and not hold them responsible for their actions.

Good lord, no one will ever convince me that those advocating an apology are not after some cash after this thread.

and yes the vast majority of blacks are kept in ghettoes OF SOME KIND.

And those that are, are usually kept their by their beliefs. Those that do well tend to not be treated well by the rest of the community. They are called uncle toms and the like. Take a look at Bill Cosby.

 

[sgtmac_46]

So it sounds like you are advocatingthe opposite. Give African Americans a load of cash and not hold them responsible for their actions.

I think we've tried that for several generations. How'd it work? Oh, I know, I know. If a program is a fundamental failure, you just didn't 'try hard enough'. "Give a man a $10.00 bill, and he can buy lunch, teach him how to work, and he can buy his own lunch".

Good lord, no one will ever convince me that those advocating an apology are not after some cash after this thread.

Of course it is. I think we ferreted that out already. It's a clever form of extortion....'Give us some money, because if you don't, you will be the minority in a few years, then, watch out!'. Alrighty then.

And those that are, are usually kept their by their beliefs. Those that do well tend to not be treated well by the rest of the community. They are called uncle toms and the like. Take a look at Bill Cosby.

Yes, because they illustrate that black americans CAN be successful, with a work ethic and an education, AND most importantly, without a HUGE chip on the shoulder and the belief that everyone isn't out to get them.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Last I checked, at least around me, there is a thing called public school. It is available to anyone, free of charge. They serve lunch there, and you pay for is based on economic need. When I was a rug rat, I paid a quarter a day. My nephew, who's mom makes more than his grandmother did, pays a huge 50 cents. His school is located in one of those "ghettos". In fact, so was the school both my sister and I attended as kids. Buffalo has this "magnet" program, and forced busing thing. My high school was in a prerdominantely black neighborhood, my sisters was in a Hispanic one. Again, both schools were public, and open to all free of charge.

My classmates were a mixed bunch. Geeks, jocks and losers. The geeks graduated, now hold jobs or have their own businesses. The jocks ended up in uniform, and fought in the first gulf war. The losers are mostly in jail or dead. The last group were the "cool" kids, who didn't believe in reading, were always in trouble, and often flunked out as the idea of reading and learning was beneath them.

They made the choice to not show up, they made the choice to not pick up a book and learn to read/write/count/speak. Why should I apologize for their poor choices?

What extra resources should they be given? They had free education, but they CHOSE not to use it. They already have at least a hundred different scholarship and grant programs available exclusively to them for further education. So, what else do they need?

Those liquor stores are usually run by African Americans. If not them, then Asians and middle eastern owners. These are people who -are- making an effort, and using the resources they have, seeking out the grants, loans, etc, and trying to build a business in their community, despite the high crime and vandalism rates.

As to the cleanliness issue, sorry, you can't convince me. I have 2 hands. I can bend. Therefore I can bend down and pick up trash. I do it every week. I also cut my grass, and shovel my walk. I borrow my grandfathers mower and do my lawn, my mothers and on occasion my sisters, all summer long. I also shovel my driveway and sidewalk, and on occasion do my mothers as well. I found the shovel I use a few years back, though I've bought 2 others since. How is it ANYONE but the person living theres responsibility to keep the outside, and especially the inside of their home clean? How hard is it to work with your neighbors, form a community cleanup crew and every month, everyone pitch in and sweep up the streets, sidewalks, and whack down some weeds. Someone's got to have a lawn mower, a broom, and a bag. Hell, you can get free, abet small, garbage bags for free...just buy groceries. NYS has one of the most liberal food stamp programs, designed for the cash poor. Thats 'free' money, for food.

So, you can eat and get educated for free. You can on your own, with just an old grocery bag and your own hands (which 99% of people come with preinstalled) keep your property looking presentable. You have access to additional grants and support if you choose to try your hand at self-employment.

As for segregated communities, I am not aware of any laws in this country that limit where you can live based on race. In my neighborhood (considered one of the "good parts of the city", there are at least 2 black families on the street next to me, and one across from me and down a bit. Theres at least 3 Hispanic families (I used to work with 2 members of the one, years back), and 1 Asian family. This is out of say 50-75 houses, mostly 2 family, and a guess based on who I see walking by, nothing scientific). I know the other blocks around me are just as diverse.

So, what more do they need?

* Should we pay people to goto school? Has been suggested, I think its ridiculous.
* Should we come up with some complex formula and a huge government payoff to anyone who can prove connection to being a descendant of a slave? I'm personally against it.

My experience says that the problem, and the resultant solution lies with those who will benefit the most. They need to get off their asses, and do something besides sit at home, or hang out on street corners and moan about their fate. I work 17 hours a day, every day. I'm sure putting in 8 wouldn't kill them. And, no one give me crap about menial jobs, etc. I've done plumbing, scooped poop, sorted garbage, cleaned up factories, and been a human beast of burden on job sites over the years. It's dirty sucky work, but it paid, and let me move up. I see ads in the paper all the time for labor. I know the store where my GF works is always looking for help, as are easily a dozen others around here, almost all are on bus routes.

The "Man" is not what is keeping them down. It is their own ignorance, pride, and arrogance. Until they take the time to become masters of their own destinies, no amount of "I'm sorry" and "Heres more free money" will help them.
White, Black, Red, Yellow, or Purple, it doesn't matter. You are responsible for you.

Cant read? - Free government programs will help you.
Cant write? - Free government programs will help you.
Can't add? - Free government programs will help you.
Want a job? - The Department of Labor has listings, openings, and resources, free to everyone. There are signs up in windows, and ads in the paper. You just might have to walk a bit, or take a bus. My next door neighbor takes a cab to work every day, dropping her kid off on the way.
Want to start a business? - Grants, loans and other developmental programs are available, if you meet their requirements and have a solid business plan.
Want to go back to school? - Grants, scholarships and loans are available based on qualification and need.
Hungry? - Food Stamp programs are available in most states, based on economic need.
Cold? - Apply for HEAP
Sick? - Free and low cost clinics and medical centers are all over the place. Coverage is available through the Medicaid and Medicare programs (though the paperworks a *****), as well as several other newer programs.
Homeless? - There are shelters you can stay at, providing beds, showers and warmth while you get back on your feet.

Again, no excuse, except ignorance, and only the ignorant can change that.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

That about sums up my belief too.

 

[7starmantis]

Uncle Sam is still here. Don't we still have a United States of America? Did I miss the revolution?

Are we too proud to apologize?

Ok, I have to address this. Its been touched on a bit, but I keep seeing this used. Your addressing of Uncle Sam and then using the word "we". The term "we" has been used alot in the last few pages on this thread. What does that term mean in this thread? "We" means what white people? The government of the people...not of the white people. "We", includes me (Native American) and people of all races. As a point of fact, the black race is not the only race that was enslved. The african americans are well known as slaves because they were held as important at least as slaves. They had at least that much worth....which was not given to native americans which needed not be imported, paid for, or protected (if one died there were plenty more to grab). So lets not make this a black vs white issue.

Also, how and to whom should I appologize? I'm half Native American (registered) and half Scotch Irish. Do I offer half of an appology to those enslaved (including my own race)? Am I to receive half an appology from you and half of those reparations? This is ridiculous. We are a different people, under a different government, in a different time. We should start helping each other instead of holding each other to past mistakes of ancestors of all of us.

well my thought was that the entire society should do something to show good faith.
but now i know it's not gonna happen. too difficult for some reason!
and you guys will keep saying "i didnt do it why should i apologize" and keep this endless loop forever.
i see no point in this discussion any longer and therefore i must shut up to save us all time!

Entire society? Including me? By saying the "entire society" should do something you are excluding blacks and other races from society, unless you are proposing we appologize to ourselves. I dont hate half of me for enslaving the other half hundreds of years ago. Wait....my other half successfully caried out genocide on my other half...man I will need the help of a professional psychologist now!

No sale. The U.S. govt. is the same today as it was in 1789. The Civil War was viewed in one way by the Confederacy--but the view of the victorious U.S. govt. is that it was a rebellion. Rebellions that fail have no legal effect. If I declare myself the U.S. of Arnisador, the U.S. govt. doesn't change because of it. The current govt. is indeed the same legal entity that has existed at least since George Washington took office.

What sources are you using to same its the same government? Care to research the amount of changes put into effect since George Wachington? Care to research the amount of Supreme Court interpretations of the constitution since George Washington? Are we still the same entity?

Agreed. It's the U.S. govt. that is at issue here. Not even George Bush need apologize for himself--just on behalf of the govt.

The U.S. Government didn't even have much to do with slavery except banning it! How is it their issue? Also, my unlce was head of indian affairs for the government working with every president since Nixon to Clinton....is he also at fault? He traveled to every reservation in the U.S. making sure they were being treated right....I guess he is at fault and should go and appologize to his people for his unjust treatment of them (including himself).

This notion of an apology is simply asinine...its not possible and is only holding us to a past none of us had anything to do with on either side!

7sm

 

[mantis]

Ok, I have to address this. Its been touched on a bit, but I keep seeing this used. Your addressing of Uncle Sam and then using the word "we". The term "we" has been used alot in the last few pages on this thread. What does that term mean in this thread? "We" means what white people? The government of the people...not of the white people. "We", includes me (Native American) and people of all races. As a point of fact, the black race is not the only race that was enslved. The african americans are well known as slaves because they were held as important at least as slaves. They had at least that much worth....which was not given to native americans which needed not be imported, paid for, or protected (if one died there were plenty more to grab). So lets not make this a black vs white issue.

Also, how and to whom should I appologize? I'm half Native American (registered) and half Scotch Irish. Do I offer half of an appology to those enslaved (including my own race)? Am I to receive half an appology from you and half of those reparations? This is ridiculous. We are a different people, under a different government, in a different time. We should start helping each other instead of holding each other to past mistakes of ancestors of all of us.


Entire society? Including me? By saying the "entire society" should do something you are excluding blacks and other races from society, unless you are proposing we appologize to ourselves. I dont hate half of me for enslaving the other half hundreds of years ago. Wait....my other half successfully caried out genocide on my other half...man I will need the help of a professional psychologist now!

What sources are you using to same its the same government? Care to research the amount of changes put into effect since George Wachington? Care to research the amount of Supreme Court interpretations of the constitution since George Washington? Are we still the same entity?

The U.S. Government didn't even have much to do with slavery except banning it! How is it their issue? Also, my unlce was head of indian affairs for the government working with every president since Nixon to Clinton....is he also at fault? He traveled to every reservation in the U.S. making sure they were being treated right....I guess he is at fault and should go and appologize to his people for his unjust treatment of them (including himself).

This notion of an apology is simply asinine...its not possible and is only holding us to a past none of us had anything to do with on either side!

7sm

yes
i said ENTIRE SOCIETY not individuals
you guys think of society as a bunch of individuals each acting on his own. well those individuals have congressmen, and congressmen can talk for them and so on. there are institutions that represent the people.
again asking, how do you propose segregation based on race ends if no one is willing to do anything at all?!
i really dont understand americans, they take money from their roads, schools and paychecks to spend it in some foreign countries that they havent even heard of, or cannot STILL locate on the map to teach those countries about democracy, and to claim you're helping them build a future but at the same time you REFUSE to spend some of that money help minorities build their future. hypocracy?!

 

[7starmantis]

yes
i said ENTIRE SOCIETY not individuals
you guys think of society as a bunch of individuals each acting on his own. well those individuals have congressmen, and congressmen can talk for them and so on. there are institutions that represent the people.
again asking, how do you propose segregation based on race ends if no one is willing to do anything at all?!
i really dont understand americans, they take money from their roads, schools and paychecks to spend it in some foreign countries that they havent even heard of, or cannot STILL locate on the map to teach those countries about democracy, and to claim you're helping them build a future but at the same time you REFUSE to spend some of that money help minorities build their future. hypocracy?!

So your definition of "society" is congress? Your still refusing to accept a diverse society or congress or government. We are a diverse people we should accept that. In fact, I think its more liken to racism to ignore diversity than to refuse taking responsibility for actions not your own.

No one is willing to do anything at all? You can't be serious. Your trying to argue that the only action that is action is an appology? C'mon, there are alot of people doing alot of things that your ignoring by saying things like that. A public apology is asinine, you can't even decide who should be giving the apology let alone to whom.

Dont be so quick to lump everyone together in such little boxes. Also, do some research on on what americans and america has done to "help minorities build their future". Now your tlaking about money where before we were talking about an apology? Your confusing me.

Also, again, who is to give the apology? What about my case? Do I appologize to myself?

7sm

 

[arnisador]

Ok, I have to address this. Its been touched on a bit, but I keep seeing this used. Your addressing of Uncle Sam and then using the word "we". The term "we" has been used alot in the last few pages on this thread. What does that term mean in this thread? "

The Republic of the United States of America.

Also, how and to whom should I appologize?

This is a strawman argument. No one has ever suggested that you apologize. It doesn't even make sense. It's the federal govt. (and some state govts., but I leave that aside for now) that has done wrong.

What sources are you using to same its the same government? Care to research the amount of changes put into effect since George Wachington? Care to research the amount of Supreme Court interpretations of the constitution since George Washington? Are we still the same entity?

Uh...yes. That's not a controversial stance. If we're not the same govt., we wouldn't be bound by treaty obligations made by older groups, for example. I find it hard to believe that anyone would question whether the U.S. is 200+ years old. How old would you say it is? Just since George W. Bush took office?

The U.S. Government didn't even have much to do with slavery except banning it!

Before they banned it, they explicitly allowed for its legality, in the Constitution, and they regulated it, taxed the workings of it, etc.

But leave that aside. Your argument is that it was OK for the govt. to ignore slavery on its soil for all those years? Nothing wrong with that? As long as they're just ignoring the problem, it's See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil? I want more from my govt. than that.

This notion of an apology is simply asinine...its not possible and is only holding us to a past none of us had anything to do with on either side!

Well, one can take the point of view "My country, right or wrong" or the point of view "My country, right its wrongs."

 

[mantis]

im sorry you guys
but you guys are show no intelligence whatsoever in understand what i am saying
or not even giving ears!
i heard ur reply like 20 times before, yes i know u will not apologize
why dont you open your ears or mind and actually understand the EXAMPLES that i am giving.
soooo literal!

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Mantis,
What examples?

You said:

apologize for enslaving an entire race that you brought to this country

Last I knew, the entire population of any race was not subjecated, just small portions. Estimates indicate that almost 2 million africans were imported to North America, with 10-15% going to the US, the rest to other nations. There however were still tens of millions of Africans still in Aftrica, so therefore the "entire race" was not enslaved nor brought to this country.

and your refusal to treat them equally when they managed to get 'some' freedom.

The laws that had been unequal have been overturned, as have many other unfair laws.

i know we're going in a loop. but i think it's a valid issue. at least do something for those minorities that cover u butts in wars dude!

Which minorities? The bulk of the armed forces I see are white.

well my thought was that the entire society should do something to show good faith.

But American Society isn't a single entity. It's a blending and non-blending of a hundred different parts. Again, no one alive today was involved. If "we" are to apologize for slavery, then as I said, so should the other nations who were also involved. Also apologized for should be the atrocities commited against the Native Americans. It won't bring back the dead, it won't fix the sins of the past. I would think that the large number of specalized benefits already show good faith.

but now i know it's not gonna happen. too difficult for some reason!

Because what you ask is unreasonable.

let me ask this then
what do you think should be done regarding segregated communities?
ie indians, blacks, asians, and hispanics?
or a better question is do you think it is necessary to get rid of racism or not, and if yes then how, and if not then why?

Again, who is forcing them to live segregated? Please point me to the laws that require it. Please indicate how they are being forced there? Historically speaking, imegrants from other cultures have grouped together, preserving parts of their heritage. That is why in some parts of the US and Canada have "Chinatowns". How do we "desegragate" these communities? Pass laws, and put in ethic quotas? We've already done the forced bussing thing, and it doesn't work.

apology doesnt teach black kids
doesnt give them bread
doesnt remove liquor stores planted at every corner
doesnt clean their neighborhoods
doesnt get their young jobs
some action does
some plan may do that as well, right?

So, who isn't allowing them into schools?
Who is denying them food?
Who runs those liquor stores?
Who is responsible for cleaning their neighborhoods, if not them?
Who's responsibility is it to get them jobs if not theirs?

why do we pay taxes if EVERY MAN IS RESPONSIBLE FOR HIMSELF
that's just ridiculous sir, with all due respect!
yeah, every man is responsible for himself to get away from a hurricane, but wait let's evacuate the rich white and for black "MANAGE YOURSELF"!

I pay taxes to cover roads, libraries, police, fire, water, defense. Those are there to allow me an enviroment I can progress in.

The hurricane argument isn't a good one, except for the folks who believe it was "Gods Wrath"

u propose that we should keep blacks in ghettoes
make drugs and alcohol easy to access
give them no education
give them nothing
and then expect them to survive
and if they cant then they are just savage thugs that couldnt make it in the civilized world!!!

I see no one proposing we keep them in ghettos, nor do I see anyone saying drug them, keep them drunk, stupid and hungry.

I however see people saying it's their own responsibility to seek out and use the -vast- resources already set aside soley for their use.

yes, but why deprive the blacks from the educational benefit of taxes and give it to others?!

so whites are hard working but blacks arent and this is how they ended up in ghettoes!

Who is depriving them of an education? Besides themselves? Don't take -anything- I've said as a slam on them. I feel the same way about any group that thinks it's entitled to a free ride at my expense. I work for a living, busting my ***, and I'll be damned if some slacker group will get a dime.

im sorry you guys
but you guys are show no intelligence whatsoever in understand what i am saying
or not even giving ears!
i heard ur reply like 20 times before, yes i know u will not apologize
why dont you open your ears or mind and actually understand the EXAMPLES that i am giving.
soooo literal!

I have just gone through everything you've said.

Again:
Who is keeping the blacks "down"?
Who is depriving them of anything?
Who is forcing them to live in these "ghettos"?

I have heard you, but your arguments aren't holding up under the facts of what is available in this nation, to those who want to succeed.

 

[mantis]

let me start from the beginning
simply
what i am saying is to get rid of racism more of the society's money should be employed in more efficient programs that give minorities what they need -- this may require some restructuring of the society example this may lead to having a hispanic president (ur like keep on dreaming haha)

i said this is the way an apology should happen. by dropping the word color, or race from all of our actions, and by putting money where it's supposed to go (example: fix LA's schools for example rather than going to war or something!)

now 7starmantis said he doesnt wanna apologize. i said again the apology is not by a specific on individual saying "sorry dude.. my grandfather raped ur grandma coz she was a slave". again, this kind of apology cannot happen by having the government or the administration like George Bush saying "sorry" but it happens by employing the social institutions that already exist, such as the congress, the city counsel and other organizations (yes these were examples i was giving, im not saying society is CONGRESS)

who forced them to live in ghettoes? what kinda argument is that man? who forced the indians to live in camps, the japanese, and who's discriminating the middle easterns today? THE EFFING GOVERNMENT MAN!

you are saying my arguments do not hold under the facts available in this nation HALLILUJA man. that's what im saying. what's available in this nation MUST go if you want racism to go. it's obviously not feasible any soon. i agree!

last thing i want to emphasize is what i noticed from this long long convo with you guys: you guys treat the minorities as sub classes of people who happen to live somewhere in the same country. let's say the blacks are behind for some reason (whatever the reasons is) they're behind in education, they join gangs, they drink, they fall into drugs (and all other prototypes) let's assume this is right, YOU as an american who share the same nationality and the same country with these people do you just leave them to do it on their own? or do you STRIVE to help them out? (help them maybe by stirring your political power in that direction)
americans say they are willing to go to afghanistan and Iraq to free them from dictatorships and such, but they are not willing to do 1/4 of that effort to free minorities from the existing burdens?! that does not make sense man.

i did read your replies to my points, but i'd rather not reply to them again. hopefully this post establishes a clearer idea on where i stand and what i want.
thanks bob, thanks 7star and the rest!